Is Medication A Form Of Sorcery?

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??? I guess I don't understand why anyone would think that...

Now, if your "doctor" has a big vat of bubbling brew in their living room, and sticks pins in little dolls, I might be asking that question...:D

I do believe that we, as a society, are certainly OVER medicated... especially our children. It's been that way for a while... remember the song "Mother's Little Helper" ? Valium...

Using medicine as a crutch is not good, anymore than using alcohol or food for a crutch... but taking advantage of new medical technology to help with real physical problems is not an issue... IMHO.
What if the the big vat of bubbling brew was in the woodshed? Then it's okay?
 
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Txroads

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Well, Blue darlin you got a good one goin here.... So let me pull up a chair here and toss in my wooden nickle from the other side of the fence.......
I remember growin up, course we lived in the country, every time me or grandad got sick gramama said "let me run in the back yard".... She had her little "medicinal" garden that took care of most everything....
Are meds sorcery... Can't be.... The bases of all meds is plant derived and last i checked it was the good LORD that made all of that. I keep reading about all these new planet species and "things" they keep finding in the Amazon that could cure just about anything. But if course man has to get a hold of it and break it down and try to make it better and stretch it out for the allmighty dollar. Why have folks gotten so sick and all these new diseases come round and everything else?... Well number one is cause of the fella downstairs. Number two, ever since we hit that "industrial age"....seriously, why did we need all that. "the advancement of civilization and mankind"......ill tell you what all of that sounds like to me and that is a modern day tower of babel... " we can cure anything ourselves... We can pharmaceutically make you live to be 150!.....man can build and fly to the stars".....why?.... Because we want to prove we can do anything? But when was the last time anybody asked if we should?...... I think, the remedy for every disease known to man is in a combination of all the natural elements God created.... We just haven't found the combination yet cause we still think we can do everything better..... God heals people, maybe not in the way we want or see..... But like blue and her seizures, God found the right meds to her so she can get on with her life.. He blessed blain in his way, Lynn and john..... I mean imagine if there was no medication.. At all....... ((gets out the chair))...i think that's enough before i start gettin fan mail again..... But that's my point of view on it.... Y'all be blessed....
 
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What many drugs do is treat the symptoms and NOT the cause of the illness. And so while the symptoms are being patched over, the body is trying even harder to alert you that something is wrong until the illness becomes terminal.

Note the medical treatments we see in the Bible are natural ones. They were not manufactured like they are today.
Bupkis! If there's a medication that treats the problem, they use that. If there is surgery that treats the problem, they use that. If it is pain, (and most illnesses aren't that much pain -- diabetes, heart disease -- until the heart attack hits, Hepatitis, etc. -- no pain. Other problems instead), AND no cure, then only since the year 2000 do American doctors mask the pain.

And the medical treatments in the Bible are all natural? Sure, wine is natural, and then "manufactured." All medicine is natural. What else would it be -- moon rocks? Poison ivy, arsenic, and datura are all natural too -- poison too.

I like the beginning of your signature -- "Don't trust public opinion." And yet? Your answer was public opinion.
 
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Well, I reckon the village snake handler would say no, but I believe most folks would come to their senses whenever the venom from a Water Moccasine is running through their veins...
My brother was a snake handler. (Well, he had pet snakes. lol) Every snake he ever owned (and we're taking at least 100 by the time he gave up owning snakes), bit him once. Including his copperheads. He cut the X into the bite marks, sucked out the poison and then got sick for three days.
 
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I think any effort to restore the proper balance is worth something. I just started a couple weeks ago ... I still eat some meat ... but I used to eat 80 percent meat 20 percent other ... lol ... now it's the opposite - and I must say I feel great. I used to joke that I was not a rabbit - just look at me now! :D
(Pssst, anyone but Psalmist. Should I mention she looks like a lion with a lamb for a goatee?
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Dec 9, 2011
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The title asks it all. Thoughts, opinions, and bible verses are welcome. :)
Hello blue_ladybug :)
+++
3rd John 1:1-3
King James Version(KJV)

1.)The elder unto the wellbeloved Gaius, whom I love in the truth.

2.)Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

3.)For I rejoiced greatly, when the brethren came and testified of the truth that is in thee, even as thou walkest in the truth.
 
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This whole thread is just filled with misinformation.

I am an organic vegetarian and I have been since I was 17. So, if you don't want to look at my age, that means 45 years of careful eating and organic gardening.

It did not prevent me from getting a whole bunch of inherited auto-immune diseases. Although my cholesterol is great. From eating well for so many years, I guess.

I take a whack load of drugs. I would probably be dead without them. Instead, I am a functioning member of society. I am involved in my church, and I am a mother and grandmother. So do those of you who think I should go without drugs think I should stop them, and be a bed ridden, pain ridden person who will soon die because of the attacks on my heart, brain, kidneys and lungs? We won't even get into the pain my joint deforming RA causes me.

I will take any drug that it takes to control my diseases. That includes asthma, hyperthryrodism, Rheumtoid Arthritis, fibromyalgia and sleep disorder, caused by all the pain I am in. Yes, I got very depressed when I first had these diseases, but God did deliver me out of that depression. But that doesn't happen to everyone, especially those with chronic depression, who have had it for more than 10 years. And because of the stigma of depression, a lot of people don't get the medical help they need (read medicines) and after 10 years, it becomes very difficult to get the brain to produce the neurotransmitters it needs to maintain normal function.

The most expensive drugs I take are biologics, which cost me about $1700 a month. Minus my personal and provincial insurance and a company help, I pay $0. However, in the US, these drugs are much, much more expensive. I used to be on Rituxan, a drug you got twice, 2 weeks apart, every 6 months. It cost me $1800 minus insurance each with a total copy of $25 a month. An American friend of mine paid $75,000 for the same two injections. This is why I prefer Canadian health care. Because it is reasonable, and worth waiting for.

So I would post a med list, but that would be long and boring to read. Instead, I will just point to Luke in the Bible, who was a physician and traveled with Paul. Paul had some amazing miracles, like a poisonous snake biting him and God healing him. Yet he still had a "thorn" in his side, and there are suggestions he did not have good eye sight, as he wrote with "such large letters," in Gal. 6:11. Could be he was losing his distance vision as he got older? My husband has that really badly. He cannot see a thing close up without glasses. So are glasses not allowed either? How ridiculous to wait for healing of a perfectly normal consequence of aging, like losing close up vision. Or distance vision, like I lost at age 10. No glasses for the poor little 10 year old, so she could see the blackboard in school? Ridiculous!

It is so ironic that people on here condemn using modern medicine, because it is "not in the Bible" when they are using the Internet, which certainly is not in the Bible either.

I can only praise God that I live today, in an age when I do have access to strong medicines which do shut down the disease, so I am not a burden to my family and society, and cannot function. And I pray none of you get serious diseases like I have, so that you have to go on medicines that are so strong, and with a lot of side effects. Oh, and pain meds - don't forget that some of us need those when are meds are not working up to pa.
I ate great too. Very little oil -- only spray oil to season a pan, or olive oil for salad dressing, except I hate salads. I gave up eating well when they added the second statin to my daily drugs. Why bother? Ends up bad triglycerides are inherited too? (And my cholesterol is great. Always has been.)

"Good health, something only the unhealthy appreciated." <--- a sign in the blood-draw clinic.
 

HeraldtheNews

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I've been taking medications for pretty much the better part of 25 years, so I can say probably more than most people, the inside scoop on cognitive and mood disorders (thinking/elevated-depressed mood). I've tried many medications over the years in many categories and classes of emotional health pharmaceutically-based (pills) treatments. The only I did not try was electro-shock therapy (which my cousin had, and have heard frightening stories about,i.e., memory loss, etc...) and medicinal cannibis, which I considered at one point at the height of my depression.

I'll come back another day and give a more detailed account of what meds I tried, which helped or did not help and side-effects that were either not acceptable or intolerable.

In a nut-shell, (and that isn't meant to be funny--only people who have been on an emotional health unit can joke about it, and only privately, not in group or in public, i.e., "harold, we don't say 'crazy' on this unit, because some people may find that very offensive," And I agree. Mental health suffering is not funny, especially when you are going through it. but, sometimes that is the way people cope with the pain, like one time on a healing wing, a few of us were manic (hyper-elevated mood/happy-happy) and we just laughed constantly while the other patients thought were were, well, pretty crazy, and didn't understand. One young lady kept saying over and over, "I've got my degree in KK-ERR-RRRAYYY-ZEEE!!" But, it was just for show because she wouldn't have been there if she wasn't in severe distress. I think it's a way to cope and feel like you are in control when your world is crumbling around you and within you.

One young man in Southeast Alaska got in the news after he started acting a little strangely, and said that the devil told him to jump off a deck, which he did and broke an ankle or something, so, his family had him committed, either there or later. Then he said that Jesus spoke to him this time and told him his "sins are forgiven," and to attend a church near where he lived. His family understandably was concerned that he was going to jump off something again and get hurt, so they had him committed. A judge heard his side of the story and agreed that it was possible that Jesus may have indeed spoken to him because it was so specific and not some wild story out of the blue and had asked him to do positive things and gave him positive, healthy help and teaching. So, the judge ruled in his favor. He also said that he was doing ok without his medications, at least at that point in time. And the man said that the medications suffocate his emotions and he is not able to cry healing tears. I agree with that up to a point. Medications, at least some types in the typical or atypical anti-psychotic class, and others, can put a lid on emotions. But, sometimes, when people are out of control, they may need something temporarily to give them a "stable-base" and help them get a grip on reality, so they can sort out their distressing issues. I agree with the man in the above story that most anti-psychotic meds block tears, but, if it's only for a few weeks, then it may be necessary so that a person does not lose control and hurt themselves or someone else. The only other alternative is to be in a safe, locked location (not jail) where there are supportive, caring people around to ensure everyone can safely recover, including 24-hour security guards. There are some new places here in Alaska that I just discovered that provide a sane, supportive, FREE Christian fellowship group to help people recover and get on a path to recovery and give them the Christian values they will need to recover and start living a healthy lifestyle, which is a lifestyle that Jesus would live and teach. Giving people drugs so they can get back on track and then telling them "it's ok to go out and live any way you want," like free sex, same sex, personal sex, jump back into co-dependent relationships, hang around abusive people or addicted people..etc... is a complete waste of time. Unless someone has the skills to live a healthy life, they are bound to relapse or headed for recidivism (repeat offenses).

there is also clearly a spiritual connection with many, not all, mental health challenges. Crystal. Unmistakeable. Empirically provable. When people go over the edge mentally, or PTSD, or chemically, and repeatedly, they can become influenced by paranormal (i.e., malicious/draining/bondage-inducing/negative energy,...etc...et al). Negative abusive lifestyles of bondage produce heavy, negative energy or depression and emotional distress. It feeds on itself-- just ask anyone who has recovered from addiction or other issues. If they go back to the places that brought them down-- guess what??? yay! rocket-science!! give me a break...is this that difficult??

When we hang around people who are living in the Light-- we become more like the Light? Who is that? His name is Jesus-- John said, "In the beginning was the Word (God's Word) and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning....In Him was/is Life and that Life was/is the Light of all people, men, women and children." (John 1: NIV--corrected for the exclusive language of patriarchy) (The NLT--New Living Translation is better).
"...The Word (Jesus Christ the Son of God and [Lamb] of God, born of Mary and raised in Nazareth with his foster father, Joseph) The Word became flesh (became a human-being) [i.e., divine Light takes on human form]
"....For the law was given through Moses (legalism--letter of the law/must be earned); grace and truth came through Jesus Christ (free-gift that it is not possible to earn for individuals)."

This is the only truth that can set people free from the bondage of sin and restore broken hearts and souls, the only Way to Heaven, the only perfect offering (New Covenant of Grace--free gift of atonement of sins and forgiveness of sins) This is the only way on earth to be restored to a relationship with God and be born-again in the Light.

So, medications may or may not help people to become stable. Sometimes they cause more problems than help. But they can help some people get out of bed and get back into life and to a healthy church that actually leads to freedom in Christ and not more bondage, religion and oppression and control.

Submitting carefully to medical help is better than hurting yourself or others, but just don't make pills a replacement for permanent healing which comes through a relationship with Jesus and putting it into action. Only real faith saves, and the real Jesus.
 

HeraldtheNews

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Paul to Timothy-- "take a little wine for your frequent infirmities." a LITTLE wine... since that is all that was available at the time. He probably knew Timothy's faith would bloom quickly as he drew near to God and Christ and he was empowered by the Holy Spirit to overcome all things and fears. "For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of love, power and a sound mind." And he knew Timothy would not abuse it. "Draw near to God, and He will draw near to you.." (James)
 

HeraldtheNews

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That's what medications are there for-- such as tranquilizers, some anti-depressants and some so-called "anti-psychotic" drugs which are now used for depression, anxiety, insomnia-- a temporary medical crutch to get us through severe crisis while we seek God's help. A crisis should bring us closer to God, and asking for His help, more reliance upon His divine Grace, not closer to pills. My father was a medical doctor and he said, "that's what tranquilizers are for-- emergency stress"

But, was he someone who would keep prescribing them 6 months later or a year later? No. Taking lorazepam, even 1mg a day is not sustainable. A permanent dependency on drugs can become a "chemical mood," or a "chemical stability," or a chemical identity," or a "chemical reality." Only God can give us true and lasting peace, healing, and eternal identity in Christ. No pill can get anyone to Heaven, and therefore no pill can ever become a replacement for a healthy, free, relationship with God through Jesus Christ and being united by faith to the "Everlasting New Covenant of Grace." No pill will ever be invented that can replace that. Ever. God is real-eternal Light. Things that treat the body are only temporary.
 

Magenta

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This whole thread is just filled with misinformation.
Where exactly? Saying something like this is not helpful at all. Please be specific.

So do those of you who think I should go without drugs think I should stop them, and be a bed ridden, pain ridden person who will soon die because of the attacks on my heart, brain, kidneys and lungs?
Who has said you should go without drugs? I must have missed that...

I pray none of you get serious diseases like I have, so that you have to go on medicines that are so strong, and with a lot of side effects. Oh, and pain meds - don't forget that some of us need those when are meds are not working up to pa.
Thank you. I put you on my prayer card faithfully :)
 

HeraldtheNews

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Apr 26, 2012
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"I tell you the truth, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, (legalism/letter-of-the-law/religious performance), but it is My Father who gives you the true Bread from Heaven. For the Bread of God is He who comes down from Heaven and gives Life to the world." (John 6:32,33--NIV).

Jesus then compared communing with His divine presence--the incarnate Word of God becoming a human-being--such as fellowship with true believers (those who live the Gospel and receive life as a free-gift-- Wedding/Marriage to the Kingdom of Heaven-- Baptism/living the Gospel) He compared this to "eating bread," except that he is the "living bread" a real human being of flesh and blood, the only Lamb of God offered for the sins of the world--a real sacrifice of a real human being/real body/real blood, which is can only be received as a free-gift and never earned, which established the New Covenant of Grace. He emphasized that this is primarily a spiritual ressurrected reality of Body and Blood present through the Holy Spirit, and not a carnal reality (human flesh and blood) which would be pagan idolatry.
"The Spirit gives Life; the flesh counts for nothing." The words I have spoken to you are Spirit and they are Life." (John 6:61-63--NIV).

He said this to emphasize that this is a spiritual reality, as well as a mystery that can not be entirely understood or explained by human reason alone, and to emphasize what it clearly is not-- carnal human flesh and blood, but a Divine, Spiritual, Resurrected reality. The church(es) should clarify at least what the offering of bread and wine is not without trying to define what it is, in my opinion.
 

HeraldtheNews

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Where exactly? Saying something like this is not helpful at all. Please be specific.

Who has said you should go without drugs? I must have missed that...

Thank you. I put you on my prayer card faithfully :)
Magenta to the rescue again! What a beautiful picture-- We are all young in Heaven-- or at least age 30...
I can feel the power of God's love in your posts...
Angela53510 usually appears to bash everything i say after I post something-- I think she secretly wants to ask me out...
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Magenta to the rescue again! What a beautiful picture-- We are all young in Heaven-- or at least age 30...
I can feel the power of God's love in your posts...
Oh my! Thank you for your very kind words to me. I do remember you from a few months ago, and I am sorry I cannot help it but I think of rabbits when I see you. :D One thing I notice sometimes is that when people speak openly about their God encounters and/or associations, they are treated with great suspicion and almost disdain. It is unfortunate. I appreciate hearing people's God stories. I may not be able to relate to all the details but the overall spiritual aspect at the core of it is beautiful.
 

Angela53510

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Jan 24, 2011
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I ate great too. Very little oil -- only spray oil to season a pan, or olive oil for salad dressing, except I hate salads. I gave up eating well when they added the second statin to my daily drugs. Why bother? Ends up bad triglycerides are inherited too? (And my cholesterol is great. Always has been.)

"Good health, something only the unhealthy appreciated." <--- a sign in the blood-draw clinic.

It actually occurred to me after I wrote my post, that I have absolutely no familial issues with cholesterol. So, yes, I think that is inherited too. My parents ate a fair amount of fruits and vegetables, and so did their parents. But a LOT of meat, especially red meat in that diet, and nary a problem.

So I can say I have inherited one good thing, amongst all the bad.
 

Angela53510

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Jan 24, 2011
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Magenta to the rescue again! What a beautiful picture-- We are all young in Heaven-- or at least age 30...
I can feel the power of God's love in your posts...
Angela53510 usually appears to bash everything i say after I post something-- I think she secretly wants to ask me out...

Well, I really have no idea who you are, so not! As for asking you out, first you are too young for me. But even more important, I have been happily married for 35 years with 4 children and 4 grandchildren. So not for that!

As for your post about psych meds, I know all about those. I have a ministry to bipolar people, with a support group for 33 people with bipolar disorder and related issues like anxiety and OCD. I think about 3 are Christians besides me, and the rest we are witnessing to with our love and our actions. It has been an amazing journey getting to know these people, and what they deal with. And some of the Christians are most firm about the need to take their meds, having fallen off the med wagon enough times to know better.

I hope that is not bashing. Sometimes the truth hurts, and you just have to say it. That is a kind of love, too!
 

Dude653

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Mar 19, 2011
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, if you need medications then by all means take them but it's always wise to use discretion. My mother almost died once from the doctor had her on morphine and seroquel. She would be so doped up she wouldn't eat so her electrolytes bottomed out and she almost died from it
 

Magenta

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Jul 3, 2015
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, if you need medications then by all means take them but it's always wise to use discretion. My mother almost died once from the doctor had her on morphine and seroquel. She would be so doped up she wouldn't eat so her electrolytes bottomed out and she almost died from it
I am sorry about your mom, and hope she is okay now. Yes, thousands of people do die every year as a direct result of taking meds the way they are prescribed. Over a hundred thousand a year in the United States alone, as well as over two million injuries in the States per year. That is a lot of fatalities and serious mishaps. Seroquel I took for a little while when I was really stressed out at work and not sleeping properly, so I would take it just before bed to help me sleep through the night. It was the lowest dose possible and I used to only take half a pill, but I still got debilitating vertigo from it that lasted for almost a year after I took myself off the drug. Scary! May cause dizziness, my eye. Yeah, I cut it out. It offended me!
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
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This is what happens when people are stupid, use herbs and supplements rather than taking their children to their doctor or the hospital. Their ideology killed their son. This couple is also famous for making some kind of herb for bipolar disorder, that only works as a placebo.


"A southern Alberta couple accused of allowing their meningitis-infected toddler to die four years ago tried home remedies such as olive leaf extract and whey protein rather than take him to a doctor, a Lethbridge jury heard Monday."

Parents of toddler who died of meningitis used home remedies rather than consult doctor, court hears - Calgary - CBC News