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So what do you call their struggles as they worked as slaves to our Lord? Faith! that makes no sense. They worked vary hard it was not an easy walk.
We have shown scripture but you deny it, we show you reason and you deny it. We try to humbly state our believe and you deny us.
Numbers 16:28 And Moses said, "This is how you shall know that the Lord has sent me to do all this works: it has not been of my own accord.
John 5:36 The works that the Father has given me to complete, the very works that I am doing, testify on my behalf that the Father has sent me.
Acts 9:36 Now in Joppa there was a disciple named Tabitha, which in greek is Dorcas. She was devoted to good works and acts of charity.
2 Corinthians 12:12 The signs of a true apostle where performed among you with outmost patience, signs and wonders and mighty works.
Ephesians 2:10 For we are what He has made us, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepare before hand to be our way of life.
1 Timothy 2:10 but with good works, as is proper for a woman to profess the reverence of God.
1 Timothy 5:10 she must be well attested for her good works, as one who has brought up children ...
Romans 2:6 for He will repay according to each one deeds
Galatians 6:10 so then, whenever we have an opportunity, let us work for the good of all, and especially for those in the family of faith
2 Thessalonians 2:17 comfort your hearts and strengthen them in every good work and word.
Philippians 1:6 I am confident of this, that the one who began good work among you will bring it to completion by the day of Jesus Christ.
There are much more and you can search them. It is not only works as we have stated time and time again. Faith and works go hand in hand.
We have shown scripture but you deny it, we show you reason and you deny it. We try to humbly state our believe and you deny us.
Numbers 16:28 And Moses said, "This is how you shall know that the Lord has sent me to do all this works: it has not been of my own accord.
John 5:36 The works that the Father has given me to complete, the very works that I am doing, testify on my behalf that the Father has sent me.
Acts 9:36 Now in Joppa there was a disciple named Tabitha, which in greek is Dorcas. She was devoted to good works and acts of charity.
2 Corinthians 12:12 The signs of a true apostle where performed among you with outmost patience, signs and wonders and mighty works.
Ephesians 2:10 For we are what He has made us, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepare before hand to be our way of life.
1 Timothy 2:10 but with good works, as is proper for a woman to profess the reverence of God.
1 Timothy 5:10 she must be well attested for her good works, as one who has brought up children ...
Romans 2:6 for He will repay according to each one deeds
Galatians 6:10 so then, whenever we have an opportunity, let us work for the good of all, and especially for those in the family of faith
2 Thessalonians 2:17 comfort your hearts and strengthen them in every good work and word.
Philippians 1:6 I am confident of this, that the one who began good work among you will bring it to completion by the day of Jesus Christ.
There are much more and you can search them. It is not only works as we have stated time and time again. Faith and works go hand in hand.
E
I call it spiritual warfare. And growing in Christ. if they were not saved, they would not have struggled. All people who are given eternal life will go through this. It is nothing new, and nothing out of the ordinary.
You have not shown me anything but speculation. If you want to work to earn your salvation, you are free to do it. But don't you think it would be better if you gave it all to Christ, and understood he is able to keep you in all things? why do you continue to want to trust yourself? WHy do you think you could ever work enough to earn salvation? I will never understand this.
Not for salvation they do not.
All those men were already saved, they did not work to earn salvation, they worked because They were given power by Gods love to do them.
You continue to say you save yourself by your works. Non of those passages state this.
Those who believe the false doctrine of "once saved, always saved" are putting the fate of their eternal souls in grave danger.
Scripture teaches that one’s final salvation depends on the state of the soul at death. As Jesus himself tells us, "He who endures to the end will be saved" (Matt. 24:13; cf. 25:31–46).
One who dies in the state of friendship with God (the state of grace) will go to heaven. The one who dies in a state of enmity and rebellion against God (the state of mortal sin) will go to hell.
Consider this warning Paul gave: "See then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off" (Rom. 11:22)
and..
"If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning." (2 Peter 2:20)
and...
The New Testament teaches us that genuine assurance is possible and desirable, but it also warns us that we can be deceived through a false assurance. Jesus declared: ‘Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord" shall enter the kingdom of heaven’ (Matt. 7:21)."
Paul was frank in admitting that even he could fall away: "I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified" (1 Cor. 9:27).
Philippians 2:12 says, "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." This is not the language of self-confident assurance. Our salvation is something that remains to be worked out.
Once saved certainly does NOT mean always saved.
Scripture teaches that one’s final salvation depends on the state of the soul at death. As Jesus himself tells us, "He who endures to the end will be saved" (Matt. 24:13; cf. 25:31–46).
One who dies in the state of friendship with God (the state of grace) will go to heaven. The one who dies in a state of enmity and rebellion against God (the state of mortal sin) will go to hell.
Consider this warning Paul gave: "See then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off" (Rom. 11:22)
and..
"If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning." (2 Peter 2:20)
and...
The New Testament teaches us that genuine assurance is possible and desirable, but it also warns us that we can be deceived through a false assurance. Jesus declared: ‘Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord" shall enter the kingdom of heaven’ (Matt. 7:21)."
Paul was frank in admitting that even he could fall away: "I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified" (1 Cor. 9:27).
Philippians 2:12 says, "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." This is not the language of self-confident assurance. Our salvation is something that remains to be worked out.
Once saved certainly does NOT mean always saved.
When we compare Paul with James we see that Paul is speaking about our relationship with God which is through faith and James is speaking about our relationship with our fellow man which can be seen in our 'works.'.
Salvation comes from God and is through faith which is why faith is so important as man cannot save, but works and how we relate to our fellow man are the evidence of our faith and we need to see both, but please do not say "works save" it is God who saves.
Salvation comes from God and is through faith which is why faith is so important as man cannot save, but works and how we relate to our fellow man are the evidence of our faith and we need to see both, but please do not say "works save" it is God who saves.
If a person is living in the truth of the Gospel, faith in Christ, and a reliance on the Spirit's power. If they take up their cross and follow after Christ and do what he reuquires of them what does it matter if they believe in OSAS or not?
I am sure God won't mind either way, they are in the centre of His will, that is what matters
I am sure God won't mind either way, they are in the centre of His will, that is what matters
1st of all,man in this world isn't secure even in one second of his life.We are all sinners and we are all sinning in all our life,every day,hour and minute.Our minds are in constantly attack of bad,evil,sinfull thoughts.Only on us is shall we accept them.Every act start with thought.Do not believe to them who says u are secure,because no one of us isn't!God gave us great weapons against demons,we must use them wisely!
What can defends us if that aren't our Faith and deeds when we stand in front of the Lord?What can defend us from blame of demons if that aren't out Faith and our deeds,when even our hairs on the head are counted!?!All our steps,beats of heart,every move of mind are recorded!
The answer is OUR FAITH AND DEEDS!
What can defends us if that aren't our Faith and deeds when we stand in front of the Lord?What can defend us from blame of demons if that aren't out Faith and our deeds,when even our hairs on the head are counted!?!All our steps,beats of heart,every move of mind are recorded!
The answer is OUR FAITH AND DEEDS!
E
What? you do not think we should worry about everyone's eternity? Plus, in order to answer your question, we must know. if you refuse to answer, we cannot determine the answer to the question.
why would you wait till th emoment of judgment when you can know now? Are you saying God does not know your heart and know if you are his child or not? It does not seem like even your sure if he does or not. this is scary!
why would you wait till th emoment of judgment when you can know now? Are you saying God does not know your heart and know if you are his child or not? It does not seem like even your sure if he does or not. this is scary!
E
On the contrary, those who are trusting self, and not God through Christ are in Grave danger. In fact your still dead to God and alienated from him!
jesus is not talking of eternal salvation here. He is speaking of those in the last days enduring until Christ returns. so they may be physically saved. Your in danger when you twist Gods word to support your belief!
And where do you get this? There is no such thing as mortal sin. That is just an excuse to allow us to sin and get away with it. it is like telling God he is not in charge, and he is not the one who states ALL sin separates us from him, we tell him whihc ones are mortal and which ones are not!
God said you can KNOW you have eternal life. If what you say is true, then we can not KNOW anything, and God is a liar. do you want to make God a liar?
Non of the passages you posted have anything to do with the personal salvation of anyone. Your sorely took all of them out of context. Paul was never worried about losing his salvation. he was ALWAYS worried about becoming unqualified to teach, to lead and to guide people in truth. Which we ALL should worry about.
Your depending on self. You claim you do not teach works. but you just admited you do. It is up to how hard you work as to whether you will be saved or not.. So stop denying you teach a gospel of works.
I see Rock liked this. He too just proves he is placing his faith in his works, and not the work of God for salvation. Are you guys still going to deny it?
jesus is not talking of eternal salvation here. He is speaking of those in the last days enduring until Christ returns. so they may be physically saved. Your in danger when you twist Gods word to support your belief!
And where do you get this? There is no such thing as mortal sin. That is just an excuse to allow us to sin and get away with it. it is like telling God he is not in charge, and he is not the one who states ALL sin separates us from him, we tell him whihc ones are mortal and which ones are not!
God said you can KNOW you have eternal life. If what you say is true, then we can not KNOW anything, and God is a liar. do you want to make God a liar?
Non of the passages you posted have anything to do with the personal salvation of anyone. Your sorely took all of them out of context. Paul was never worried about losing his salvation. he was ALWAYS worried about becoming unqualified to teach, to lead and to guide people in truth. Which we ALL should worry about.
Your depending on self. You claim you do not teach works. but you just admited you do. It is up to how hard you work as to whether you will be saved or not.. So stop denying you teach a gospel of works.
I see Rock liked this. He too just proves he is placing his faith in his works, and not the work of God for salvation. Are you guys still going to deny it?
E
He was saved because he did not believe, he did not have faith. jesus makes this clear himself in John 6 and other passages. He represents many in our churches which are frauds. they think they have salvation but they do not. they are playing the game, to get something out of it,, Like Judas did (money and fame)
plus we were speaking of the apostles. not disciples. Judas was never an apostle.
plus we were speaking of the apostles. not disciples. Judas was never an apostle.
The example of Judas confirms the error of both OSAS and Calvin’s Reformed theology whose argument is that those who turn away from God were never saved.
In John 17:12 we read of Jesus speaking to the twelve apostles and he refers to Judas as the one who “perished.” Now Judas could not have “perished” if first he had not been “alive,” that is, an accepted member of the select twelve that Christ had chosen. Therefore, Judas “fell away.”
Judas was once in a right relationship with God. He was an apostle, chosen by Christ, and endued with all the miraculous powers that the other apostles possessed.
In Matthew 10:5-8, Jesus was giving instructions to the twelve and he said: "Do not go in the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter any city of the Samaritans; but rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And as you go, preach, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.' Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons. Freely you received, freely give.”
A lost person does not have these powers and cannot “cast out demons.”
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In John 17:12 we read of Jesus speaking to the twelve apostles and he refers to Judas as the one who “perished.” Now Judas could not have “perished” if first he had not been “alive,” that is, an accepted member of the select twelve that Christ had chosen. Therefore, Judas “fell away.”
Judas was once in a right relationship with God. He was an apostle, chosen by Christ, and endued with all the miraculous powers that the other apostles possessed.
In Matthew 10:5-8, Jesus was giving instructions to the twelve and he said: "Do not go in the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter any city of the Samaritans; but rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And as you go, preach, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.' Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons. Freely you received, freely give.”
A lost person does not have these powers and cannot “cast out demons.”
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