Is once saved always saved true? Or is it only giving false security?

[mark54]

Sounds to me as if flesh here has taken over?

To me the Gopspel is two fold.
The core of the faith is knowing Christ died on the cross for our sin
But the practical working out of that in our lives requires acceptance and understanding of the following

This is the covenant I will make with them after that time declares the Lord
I will put my laws in their hearts and write them on their minds
Then he adds
Their sins and lawless deeds I will remeber no more
Heb10:16&17

Under the new coveannt God, through the spirit circumcises our hearts(Rom2:29)
Under the old covenant God told Moses to tell the people to circumcise their hearts(Duet10:16)

Under the old covenant the law was written on tablets of stone, under the new on tablets of human hearts(2C3:3)

Under the old coveannt the Israelites strove to obey the literal law, under the new covenant we look to Christ for our hearts desire(obediance due to the law written on our hearts and minds.)

But as Jesus said:

No-one after drinking the old wine wants the new, for he says. 'The old is better'
Luke5:39

 

[endurance]

I'm going to open what is called a"can of worms" here....define"what is sin"???????

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'm going to open what is called a"can of worms" here....define"what is sin"???????

Sin would be ANYTHING done which is based on self motivation. which makes us be our own God.

ie, if I walk help a lady in need, but in order to be seen, or to get something out of it. I do it out of self motivation and it is sin.

if i do it because god says this is a good thing, and as he loved me, so i should also love others. and expect nothing out of it. then it is a work of God.

 

[PS]

Can anyone explain me,how someone can be today saved and tomorrow to lose that Salvation?I just can imagine how an early Church Fathers whould consider this question,i believe they would laugh in first time...

"… this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD:" (Isaiah 30:9).

Lying children - They had promised in solemn covenant to take Yahweh as their God, but they had been unfaithful to their vows.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

"… this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD:" (Isaiah 30:9).

Lying children - They had promised in solemn covenant to take Yahweh as their God, but they had been unfaithful to their vows.

what does this have to do with having salvation one day and not the next?

Thi sspeaks of the children of Isreal. not induviduals who were saved, It says they promised, but they never obeyed. we are not saved by promising to be good. we are saved by admitting we have failed. and seeking Gods forgiveness.

 

[Geometar]

"… this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD:" (Isaiah 30:9).

Lying children - They had promised in solemn covenant to take Yahweh as their God, but they had been unfaithful to their vows.

I do not denie that Faith saves us,but only with works.Do not try to prove other,because it is impossible.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I do not denie that Faith saves us,but only with works.Do not try to prove other,because it is impossible.

faith produces works. thats all. we are not saved by works. thus we do not get saved by works. or lose salvation by lack of works. that would be heresy to teach this.

 

[PS]

what does this have to do with having salvation one day and not the next?

Thi sspeaks of the children of Isreal. not induviduals who were saved, It says they promised, but they never obeyed. we are not saved by promising to be good. we are saved by admitting we have failed. and seeking Gods forgiveness.

They rejected God and God rejected them. They made vows to God, who they then rejected and worshipped false gods. You know what the Ten Commandment say about that don't you. Whether it is one person or a nation it makes no difference.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

They rejected God and God rejected them. They made vows to God, who they then rejected and worshipped false gods. You know what the Ten Commandment say about that don't you. Whether it is one person or a nation it makes no difference.

that had to do with God dealing with them as a nation. not as induviduals. and had nothing to do with ones salvation. Why do you think they ar enot in their land today? with God as their protector?

so why are you trying to make it a salvation issue when it is not one?

 

[Geometar]

faith produces works. thats all. we are not saved by works. thus we do not get saved by works. or lose salvation by lack of works. that would be heresy to teach this.

I didn't said that we are saved only by works.I says all the time,Faith without works is dead.I think that u all understand what it mean.I do not denie any of those 2.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I didn't said that we are saved only by works.I says all the time,Faith without works is dead.I think that u all understand what it mean.I do not denie any of those 2.

That is just the point. we are not saved by ANY WORK PERIOD (you said only works, which would be a false claim) . to say we are is to put us under law and not under grace.

Again. Faith produces works. Works do not produce salvation. we do them because we are saved, not to get saved, or keep our salvation.

 

[Rock022]

The problem we have as catholics and geo and I try to explain is that faith and works we belief one can not go with ought the other. You can not have all faith and no works, in retrospect you can not have all work and no faith. Faith plus works go hand in hand.

For those who believe the catholics believes only in works you are mistaken.

 

[endurance]

Sin would be ANYTHING done which is based on self motivation. which makes us be our own God.

ie, if I walk help a lady in need, but in order to be seen, or to get something out of it. I do it out of self motivation and it is sin.

if i do it because god says this is a good thing, and as he loved me, so i should also love others. and expect nothing out of it. then it is a work of God.

This sounds reasonable,but what scriptures are they that say"self motivation"(which is a very broad term) is sin??

 

[Bookends]

I didn't said that we are saved only by works.I says all the time,Faith without works is dead.I think that u all understand what it mean.I do not denie any of those 2.

It's not Faith + Works = Salvation

It is (real) Faith = Salvation = Works (of God)

It's (false)Faith = (false) no Salvation = no Works (of God) or false works

 

[Rock022]

That is just the point. we are not saved by ANY WORK PERIOD (you said only works, which would be a false claim) . to say we are is to put us under law and not under grace.

Again. Faith produces works. Works do not produce salvation. we do them because we are saved, not to get saved, or keep our salvation.

Eternal you are over thinking what geo is explaining. Slow down a little and listen to what he is saying. You tell him faith produces works, but geo never said works produced salvation.

 

[Geometar]

They do not understand me,but they use Bible literally.

 

[PS]

I do not denie that Faith saves us,but only with works.Do not try to prove other,because it is impossible.

We are saved by Faith alone.

Rom. 5:1, "therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,"

Rom. 10:4, "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes."

Rom. 11:6, "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."

Gal. 2:16, "nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified."

Gal. 2:21, I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.

Gal. 3:5-6, "Does He then, who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 6Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness."

Gal. 3:24, "Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith."

Eph. 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God. Not by works, lest any man should boast."

Phil. 3:9, "and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith."

 

[Rock022]

A homeless person was trying to get people's attention as they walked by him in a gas station, every person I saw, passed him with ought looking at him, or gesturing that they did not wanted to talk to him. As I passed by I stopped and shook his hand, he did not see me coming because he was looking inside the store with great need.

I greeted him with God's blessing and asked him if I could be of service. He told me he needed to take his medication and all he wanted was black coffee two sugars. I told him I'd get him the coffee, but I noticed he kept asking other people after me. After I gave him the coffee I asked why he kept asking after I told him I'd get him one. He said people tell him this all the time and forget about him.

I gave him the coffee, he took the medicine as soon as he got the cup, and I gave him a few dollars for him later.

How does faith only explain what I did with ought saying I worked. I worked with faith.

 

[PS]

A homeless person was trying to get people's attention as they walked by him in a gas station, every person I saw, passed him with ought looking at him, or gesturing that they did not wanted to talk to him. As I passed by I stopped and shook his hand, he did not see me coming because he was looking inside the store with great need.

I greeted him with God's blessing and asked him if I could be of service. He told me he needed to take his medication and all he wanted was black coffee two sugars. I told him I'd get him the coffee, but I noticed he kept asking other people after me. After I gave him the coffee I asked why he kept asking after I told him I'd get him one. He said people tell him this all the time and forget about him.

I gave him the coffee, he took the medicine as soon as he got the cup, and I gave him a few dollars for him later.

How does faith only explain what I did with ought saying I worked. I worked with faith.

That was good but it won't save you spiritually.

Then Jesus said to them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's."

You gave of this world (drink and money) to a man of this world; the unsaved need to give to God what is Gods, which is your heart and love.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This sounds reasonable,but what scriptures are they that say"self motivation"(which is a very broad term) is sin??

look at anything which it calls sin. You will see it is self motivated. What sin is not self motivated?