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Eternal when you go to church does faith or works take you to church? It would be both, because one it is not with ought the other.
You shower, get dress, get family ready, all get in the car, you drive to church. Meat and greet people, ready yourself for service then with every person there you fill yourself with the Lord. You did some work, but it did not go with ought faith. Faith did not dressed you, you did. But out of faith you got dressed. You can not take one from another. It is not only works or only faith. It is both.
You shower, get dress, get family ready, all get in the car, you drive to church. Meat and greet people, ready yourself for service then with every person there you fill yourself with the Lord. You did some work, but it did not go with ought faith. Faith did not dressed you, you did. But out of faith you got dressed. You can not take one from another. It is not only works or only faith. It is both.
E
Faith only does not explain it. Faith only explains if your born again or not.
1. If your not born again. This work means nothing as for as your eternity goes. it will go into the books as a work done trying to save yourself.
2. If your doing it to try to "perfect your salvation" then it means nothing. It will again go into the books of trying to save yourself
3. If your doing it with salvation in mind. And not out of a love for Gods things and out of gratitude for the eternal salvation he gave you, it means nothing. Again, will go into book sas trying to save yourself or earn salvation.
if you are born again. And you did it out of a gracious heart. then you will receive reward (gold silver precious stone) but if you did it trying to get something out of it (notice, respect, anything) then it was self motivated, and you wwill suffer loss (wood hey and straw) but you will still be saved, because eternal life is eternal, not conditional.
E
This question is invalid. I will never be saved by going to church, and I can not perfect my salvation by going to church. I go to Church because I am saved and because I want to know more about my savior. and be with the body
Not as far as salvation goes. If I am not born again. Doing all this work will amount to a bunch of nothing.
Your getting justification and sanctification mixed together.
we are justified by faith alone. Sanctification takes works.
Justification = eternal life = born again
sanctification = growing in Christ. We go up and down depending on what we are doing at any given moment.
Not as far as salvation goes. If I am not born again. Doing all this work will amount to a bunch of nothing.
Your getting justification and sanctification mixed together.
we are justified by faith alone. Sanctification takes works.
Justification = eternal life = born again
sanctification = growing in Christ. We go up and down depending on what we are doing at any given moment.
We are not talking about born again, for it is something we agree on. Catholics are also born again we just do not use that term because it is something between us and God. We are talking about faith plus works. I did not think I have to explain in a christian chat that all you do is for the glory of God.
E
I was looking for a scripture that deals with"self motivation"being a sin,I thought you would have had it available.You see,I have searched,and found nothing pertaining to "self motivation"being a sin.
Then,aren't all one's actions based on "self motivation"?Logically then,all actions would be a sin.
Then,aren't all one's actions based on "self motivation"?Logically then,all actions would be a sin.
How about this?
You became a Christian. You knew in your heart you had a totally free salvation based solely on Christ dying for you on the cross. No work you do could better help you to attain Heaven. You are deleriously happy. Christ has given you right standing with the Father, you had to do nothing to deserve it. As you begin your Christian walk you know you're not perfect, but you look to Christ, rejoicing in your salvation, for he is your one and only righteousness for Heaven. And as you keep looking to him in love and gratitude for what he did for you at Calvary, the Holy Spirit startts to sanctify you, for you are trusting in your Saviour and continually looking to him. The fruits of the Spirit start to appear in your life for you are following the truth of the Gospel, and the free salvation given to you. After a while your life starts to overflow with
Love, joy, peace, patience, KINDNESS GOODNESS, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.
Then you pass a homeless person in the street..........................
You became a Christian. You knew in your heart you had a totally free salvation based solely on Christ dying for you on the cross. No work you do could better help you to attain Heaven. You are deleriously happy. Christ has given you right standing with the Father, you had to do nothing to deserve it. As you begin your Christian walk you know you're not perfect, but you look to Christ, rejoicing in your salvation, for he is your one and only righteousness for Heaven. And as you keep looking to him in love and gratitude for what he did for you at Calvary, the Holy Spirit startts to sanctify you, for you are trusting in your Saviour and continually looking to him. The fruits of the Spirit start to appear in your life for you are following the truth of the Gospel, and the free salvation given to you. After a while your life starts to overflow with
Love, joy, peace, patience, KINDNESS GOODNESS, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.
Then you pass a homeless person in the street..........................
E
Here is what the bible says,now how can there be any doubt??>>>>[h=2]James Chapter 2 Verse 18 - 26[/h]Translations: World English BibleBible in Basic EnglishKing James Version
18.) Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19.) Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20.) But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21.) Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22.) Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23.) And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24.) Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25.) Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26.) For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also
18.) Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19.) Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20.) But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21.) Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22.) Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23.) And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24.) Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25.) Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26.) For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also
There is no need to copy/paste what christians already know. I have not said you only need works for this will not get you to heaven but neither is faith alone and no works. I do not know if you have read my previous posts in this thread or just jumped in the middle of eternal and I understanding each other. Faith and works are together and can not be separate from one another. It is like saying you jump on the water but can not be wet, or removing heat from the fire.
I think the question would be, what do you think works is?
I think the question would be, what do you think works is?
E
Works??What question,the word is self explanatory.I only intended to verify what you had already said,not to disagree.
The need copy,paste(quote)is always necessary,because I don't know what everyone else(Christian or otherwise),realizes or understands,since most of these discussions involve explanations in one's own words.
R
I showed you..many scriptures..I know you saw them..
in case you did not for some apparent reason I will for your sake, put them on once again, so get your reading glasses and your Bible, because these verses should be in whatever Bible you use..second. Before you go on about how eternal security is 'scriptural' remember that all scripture is profitable,third..who was it that had no idea what Double predestination was and is a calvinist? not me, you sir.
here goes..and read them in your ESV,mcarthur study bible or whichever you prefer, so that you do not call me a liar, put on your reading glasses..and open your bible.
1 timothy 4:1,hebrews 6:4-6,hebrews 3:14
Hebrews 10:26-for if we go on deliberately AND willfull sinning after once acquiring knowledge of the truth..there is no longer any sacrifice left to atone for(our) sins,[no further offering to look forward]
and go on to verse 29..where it says that if you do so, you trample on the blood of Christ.
That is serious. So take heed, and I say this in love, That you need to repent. Election according to 'grace appeal' and appealing to a certain doctrine will not and cannot save you. You need to commit your life to God. You come to God on his terms, not on your terms.
and with that I am done, you've been told..
ps*whats this about choice? Calvinist's don't believe in choice!
in case you did not for some apparent reason I will for your sake, put them on once again, so get your reading glasses and your Bible, because these verses should be in whatever Bible you use..second. Before you go on about how eternal security is 'scriptural' remember that all scripture is profitable,third..who was it that had no idea what Double predestination was and is a calvinist? not me, you sir.
here goes..and read them in your ESV,mcarthur study bible or whichever you prefer, so that you do not call me a liar, put on your reading glasses..and open your bible.
1 timothy 4:1,hebrews 6:4-6,hebrews 3:14
Hebrews 10:26-for if we go on deliberately AND willfull sinning after once acquiring knowledge of the truth..there is no longer any sacrifice left to atone for(our) sins,[no further offering to look forward]
and go on to verse 29..where it says that if you do so, you trample on the blood of Christ.
That is serious. So take heed, and I say this in love, That you need to repent. Election according to 'grace appeal' and appealing to a certain doctrine will not and cannot save you. You need to commit your life to God. You come to God on his terms, not on your terms.
and with that I am done, you've been told..
ps*whats this about choice? Calvinist's don't believe in choice!
This what u claim isn't in according to Bible verses says.Here words of Apostles do not denie work as u think.If u denie works,what this world of mandness would be?It would be Hell!What is the proofs of Holy Faith if not our deeds?But Faith alone do not product deeds,but our own will.That is what u have to understand.
I have alredy posted what u should have to read,and u will have perfect explanation.
http://www.stpaulsirvine.org/pdf/Faith Alone and Faith and Works.pdf
No one here do not denie Faith,i have never said it,but Salvation comes as result of your Faith and deeds.
The only place in the New Testament where the phrase "faith alone" is
actually used is in the Letter of James 2:24, where the Scriptures say
precisely the opposite: "that a person is justified by works and not by faith
alone."
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What did the apostles do, sit and have faith? I can not argue the faith aspect because I do believe in it, you do not need to mention this again to me at least. Some people say that faith makes you do the work, so they justify Faith only. The view we as catholics have is faith plus works, but this two are so embedded together that one will not work with ought the other.
A person is in a dangerous river flood and needs help, he has faith that God will rescue him. Rescuers come and trow him a rope, but his faith in God only and no men he refuses to reach for the rope. The river takes him.
Yes Faith is needed just as much as works are needed. Love is about total submission to another. Your mother tells you take out the trash, you are exhausted and in serious need of rest. It is good and pleasing to God for you to get up with ought any arguments and do as your mother said. Is that not work?
A person is in a dangerous river flood and needs help, he has faith that God will rescue him. Rescuers come and trow him a rope, but his faith in God only and no men he refuses to reach for the rope. The river takes him.
Yes Faith is needed just as much as works are needed. Love is about total submission to another. Your mother tells you take out the trash, you are exhausted and in serious need of rest. It is good and pleasing to God for you to get up with ought any arguments and do as your mother said. Is that not work?