Is Repentance Necessary For Salvation?

[Jason0047]

Folks are not really thinking about how this works in the real world. Instead they look to theological dictionaries or they are misunderstanding what the Bible says in the Old English with the KJV.

Let me give you an example. If I told a person to repent of lying at work, what do you think that person is going to do if they truly felt embarrassed and truly felt sorry about their lying at work? They are going to stop lying. They are not going to say to themselves, hmmmm.... I wonder if Jason just wants me to have a change of mind mentally but yet continue to lie? Such thinking is double talk nonsense. If you change and turn from your evil ways, you are repenting. It's not up for debate. It's common sense.

 

[Hizikyah]

It's so simple a child can even understand it.

Thank you for the verses, my friend.

I enjoyed your post about the Jonah situation, I had forgotten exactly what was written there so ty. I know we have butted head in minor ways before, but we are all seeking Him right? So praise and glory to Him! for if we seek we will find!

 

[BradC]

Folks are not really thinking about how this works in the real world. Instead they look to theological dictionaries or they are misunderstanding what the Bible says in the Old English with the KJV.

Let me give you an example. If I told a person to repent of lying at work, what do you think that person is going to do if they truly felt embarrassed and truly felt sorry about their lying at work? They are going to stop lying. They are not going to say to themselves, hmmmm.... I wonder if Jason just wants me to have a change of mind mentally but yet continue to lie? Such thinking is double talk nonsense. If you change and turn from your evil ways, you are repenting. It's not up for debate. It's common sense.

Let me offer a different approach using the same example of lying. You go that person and ask them out for coffee. You complement them and are grateful for the work they do. You then illustrate to them a past situation that involved a series of lies from an employee and the trouble it caused the company. You show them how it was dealt with and how it all worked out for the better. The one responsible for the series of lies made it right and the company went on with no recourse and no probation for that employee. You communicate to that person that it was a lack of insight by the employee because they did not want to get in trouble because of either their inexperience or maybe a chance of promotion. In this case you want this employee to change their mind about their actions and to learn from their mistakes without indicting them or hindering their potential.

You see, grace, (undeserved favor) does that for people and effects them in the right way so that they make a change in their heart. No confession or repentance demanded just an opportunity for them to receive grace and grow up. You may not agree with this but God does not always make us accountable for what we do or don't do. He prefers to take a risk and extend his mercy and goodness so that a godly change can take effect by drawing us to Himself and reveal the love He has for us. Justice is very important but wisdom is justified of its children and is the principle thing that makes a difference.

 

[notuptome]

God repented.

Man repents when he is confronted with the presence of Almighty God. Just as darkness flees the light a man when confronted by God over his sin either repents or flees from the presence of God. John 3:18

Repentance that leads to salvation is of God and not of man.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Hizikyah]

God repented.

Man repents when he is confronted with the presence of Almighty God. Just as darkness flees the light a man when confronted by God over his sin either repents or flees from the presence of God. John 3:18

Repentance that leads to salvation is of God and not of man.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

great post TY.

 

[Jason0047]

I enjoyed your post about the Jonah situation, I had forgotten exactly what was written there so ty. I know we have butted head in minor ways before, but we are all seeking Him right? So praise and glory to Him! for if we seek we will find!

You are most welcome; And may God bless you.

 

[Jason0047]

Let me offer a different approach using the same example of lying. You go that person and ask them out for coffee. You complement them and are grateful for the work they do. You then illustrate to them a past situation that involved a series of lies from an employee and the trouble it caused the company. You show them how it was dealt with and how it all worked out for the better. The one responsible for the series of lies made it right and the company went on with no recourse and no probation for that employee. You communicate to that person that it was a lack of insight by the employee because they did not want to get in trouble because of either their inexperience or maybe a chance of promotion. In this case you want this employee to change their mind about their actions and to learn from their mistakes without indicting them or hindering their potential.

You see, grace, (undeserved favor) does that for people and effects them in the right way so that they make a change in their heart. No confession or repentance demanded just an opportunity for them to receive grace and grow up. You may not agree with this but God does not always make us accountable for what we do or don't do. He prefers to take a risk and extend his mercy and goodness so that a godly change can take effect by drawing us to Himself and reveal the love He has for us. Justice is very important but wisdom is justified of its children and is the principle thing that makes a difference.

Your missing the point. If I tell people to repent of such and such evil, and they desire to respond, then they will turn from that evil. It's just how people understand that word. You seek to change the meaning beyond how people have always understood that word so as to fit your personal belief.

 

[Jason0047]

God repented.

Man repents when he is confronted with the presence of Almighty God. Just as darkness flees the light a man when confronted by God over his sin either repents or flees from the presence of God. John 3:18

Repentance that leads to salvation is of God and not of man.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

This is Old English. Nobody says repent in reference to how the KJV uses that word when used with God. In Genesis 6, the word means to be grieved. In other words, the Old English has multiple meanings for the same word. These are called Homonyms. They exist in the Bible.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Folks are not really thinking about how this works in the real world. Instead they look to theological dictionaries or they are misunderstanding what the Bible says in the Old English with the KJV.

Let me give you an example. If I told a person to repent of lying at work, what do you think that person is going to do if they truly felt embarrassed and truly felt sorry about their lying at work? They are going to stop lying. They are not going to say to themselves, hmmmm.... I wonder if Jason just wants me to have a change of mind mentally but yet continue to lie? Such thinking is double talk nonsense. If you change and turn from your evil ways, you are repenting. It's not up for debate. It's common sense.

Your example: I believe the person would honestly endeavor to stop lying - but I doubt that it would last forever. As for as biblical dictionaries and concordances - what's wrong with using them to ascertain definitions?

We are human beings born with a sinful nature - then we are born again with a divine nature. So we have the sinful nature and the divine nature living in one body, i.e. flesh and Spirit. Don't you think these two are contrary one with another? Our human sinful nature is basically our natural response to something . . . sometimes it's so automatic that we don't even think about what we are doing until it's already done. Say a 3 year old takes a cookie. They have already been told NOT to take a cookie. The parent ask - Did you take and eat a cookie? Automatic response - No . . . . Even in one so young there you have a lie. So now it is the parent's responsibility to teach their children not to lie and to tell the truth . . . . Is the child ever going to lie again?

 

[riverlandfarmer]

Read Ps. 24 it is a story of David's repentance. In Samuel he cried out lord it was against you and only you that I have sinned. David committed 2 sins that required death by OT law that was adultery and murder for which there was no forgiveness for even with an animal sacrifice. Nathan the prophet could have turned him in and they would have been justified in stoning him or whatever. Because he repented God in his mercy forgave David. This story should give us all hope but we do need to apologize to God for breaking His law which is the 10 commandments.
Are we required to apologize or ask forgiveness if commit an act of wrong against someone else??? You better if you want to restore the relationship! How are we going to have a relationship with God if we don't ask for forgiveness for breaking His commands?

 

[BradC]

Your missing the point. If I tell people to repent of such and such evil, and they desire to respond, then they will turn from that evil. It's just how people understand that word. You seek to change the meaning beyond how people have always understood that word so as to fit fit your personal belief.

Part of what makes up the love of God is that it goes beyond knowledge (Eph 3:17-21) and what you are trying to do is to conform the love of God according to your own knowledge and understanding about repentance, a love that sent God's Son to take away the sin of the world, so that He could reconcile the world unto Himself because He was not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9). To come to repentance is a phrase meaning 'to leave room and to leave a place in the heart for a change of mind concerning the promise of His Son who was sent at the appointed time to take away the sin of the world'.

 

[notuptome]

This is Old English. Nobody says repent in reference to how the KJV uses that word when used with God. In Genesis 6, the word means to be grieved. In other words, the Old English has multiple meanings for the same word. These are called Homonyms. They exist in the Bible.

Then it is incumbent upon you to define what kind of repentance you feel is necessary for salvation. Especially since the NT was not written in English.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[BradC]

Read Ps. 24 it is a story of David's repentance. In Samuel he cried out lord it was against you and only you that I have sinned. David committed 2 sins that required death by OT law that was adultery and murder for which there was no forgiveness for even with an animal sacrifice. Nathan the prophet could have turned him in and they would have been justified in stoning him or whatever. Because he repented God in his mercy forgave David. This story should give us all hope but we do need to apologize to God for breaking His law which is the 10 commandments.
Are we required to apologize or ask forgiveness if commit an act of wrong against someone else??? You better if you want to restore the relationship! How are we going to have a relationship with God if we don't ask for forgiveness for breaking His commands?

There was some pretty strong language and rebuke that came from the mouth of the Lord unto David through the prophet Nathan in (2 Sam 12) to bring David to a place that he would confess that he has sinned in (v.13). In that same verse we see that Nathan declared and comforted David that he would not die and it was not because he confessed his sin but rather that God had put away his sin. God did not deal with David because of his sin but rather because of his position (v,7,8) and that he despised the commandment of the Lord in that position (v.9-12). However, David's sin was put away before (Psalm 51) was ever written, so we should read his confession in (Psalm51) in the context of his acknowledgement of his sin not just as a a person but also because of his position as anointed king. When you read (Psalm 51) over again make sure you read the whole Psalm and not just part of it because the whole Psalm deals with his complete confession and specific requests made of the Lord.

 

[forsha]

Repentance and Forgiveness

When Jesus preached the gospel, "The kingdom of God is at hand," he called for a response: "Repent, and believe in the gospel." What does "repent" mean?

The meaning of "repent" is found in Jesus' parable of the "prodigal son" (Luke 15:11-24) as follows:

"And he (Jesus) said, "There was a man who had two sons; and the younger of them said to his father, 'Father, give me the share of the property that falls to me (by inheritance).' And he (the father) divided his living between them. "Not many days later, the younger son gathered all that he had and took his journey to a far country, and there he squandered his property in loose living. And when he had spent everything, a great famine arose in that country, and he began to be in want. "So he went and joined himself to one of the citizens of that country, who sent him into his fields to feed swine. And he would gladly have fed on the pods that the swine ate; and no one gave him anything.

"But when he came to himself he said, 'How many of my father's hired servants have bread enough and to spare, but I perish here with hunger! I will arise and go to my father, and I will say to him, Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you; I am no longer worthy to be called your son; treat me as one of your hired servants.' "And he arose and came to his father. But while he was yet at a distance, his father saw him and had compassion, and ran and embraced him and kissed him.

"And the son said to him, 'Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you; I am no longer worthy to be called your son.' But the father said to his servants, 'Bring quickly the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet; and bring the fatted calf and kill it, and let us eat and make merry; for this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found.' And they began to make merry."

The parable of the "prodigal son" illustrates the process and meaning of "repentance." The process began when the young son recognized his wrong-doing against his father. The son had shown disrespect for his father by squandering the property that his father had given to him.

Next came the son's decision to turn away from his wrong-doing and confess his sin with an attitude of contrition (feeling sorry for what he had done). The son said to himself, "I will arise and go to my father, and I will say to him, 'Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son."

Then came the son's actual change in direction in his life and his confession of wrong-doing ("And he arose and came to his father....and the son said to him, 'I have sinned....'").

The son's confession of sin was made to his father who had been hurt by his son's bad behavior, and the son was willing to make amends by working as a "hired servant." Of course, the father's response was forgiveness and rejoicing ("for this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found").

Dictionaries define "repent" as "to feel sorry for sin and seek forgiveness." Granted, every believer's situation is different, but according to the parable of the prodigal son we can see that his repentance was shown in the following order:

1. The recognition of and acceptance of personal responsibility for sin.
2. A sincere feeling of remorse and sorrow for having sinned.
3. A conscious decision to stop the wrong-doing.
4. An actual "turning away from" the sin. This is a change of direction in behavior.
5. A confession of sin and a humble request for forgiveness. The request for forgiveness is made to the one who has been hurt by the sin.
6. An offer to make amends for the hurt that was caused by the sin.

In other words, the point of this parable is showing us that Repentance is not just an intellectual exercise of "feeling sorry" for sins. Repentance involves a "turning" or "reorientation" of one's life. The evidence of that change is seen in the "fruit," or how a person lives. John the Baptist told those who came to confess their sins that they must "bear fruit that befits (evidences) repentance" (Matthew 3:8). The parable of the "prodigal son" also teaches us that we are sinning against God "our Father" if we squander the life that we have received. God expects us to invest ourselves to produce something good in the world.

Jesus said something else about repentance in the parable of the "unmerciful servant" (Matthew 18:23-35) as follows:

"Therefore the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his servants. When he began the reckoning, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents (a large amount of money); and as he could not pay, his lord ordered him to be sold, with his wife and children and all that he had, and payment be made.
"So the servant fell on his knees, imploring him, "Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay you everything.' And out of pity for him the lord of that servant released him and forgave him the debt.

"But that same servant, as he went out, came upon one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii (a small amount of money); and seizing him by the throat he said, 'Pay what you owe.' So his fellow servant fell down and besought him, 'Have patience with me, and I will pay you.' He refused (to have patience) and went and put him in prison until he should pay the debt. "When his fellow servants saw what had taken place, they were greatly distressed, and they went and reported to their lord all that had taken place.

"Then the lord summoned him and said to him, 'You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you besought me; and should not you have had mercy on your fellow servant, as I had mercy on you?' And in his anger his lord delivered him to the jailers, till he should pay all his debt."

Jesus said, "So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart." In this parable, when a servant failed to pay what he owed the king, the servant fell down on his knees and asked for the king's "patience." The king had mercy on the servant and forgave him of his large debt. But this same servant refused to show mercy and forgive a fellow servant who owed him a small debt. The king condemned the servant who refused to forgive his fellow servant. Jesus' point is clear. If we repent of sins, God will forgive us in the same way that we are willing to forgive those who sin against us. In the prayer that Jesus taught his disciples, Jesus makes this same point: "And forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who sin against us" (Luke 11:4).

The parable of the "unmerciful servant" tells us that God will forgive our sins (1) if we repent and ask God to forgive us and (2) if we are willing to forgive others who sin against us.

Jesus said, "If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him; and if he sins against you seven times in a day and turns to you seven times, and says, 'I repent,' you must forgive him (Luke 17:3-4). Again, Jesus said, "If you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you; but if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses" (Matthew 6:14-15).

The parables of the "prodigal son" and the "unmerciful servant" teach us something else about repentance and forgiveness. While we should ask God to forgive us of our sins, we should also ask forgiveness from any person who has suffered because of our sin, if that person is available. Repentance and forgiveness are not limited to our relationship to God but, in many instances, can and should take place in our relationships with other human beings.



Source Used:
Repentance and Forgiveness

When the one brother left home, he was still his father's son. When we forsake the commandments of God, we are still his child, just a disobedient child. We still have our eternal salvation, but we lose our fellowship with the Father. When we repent and God forgives us, there is a salvation (deliverance) that takes place, not eternally, but a timely salvation. Most of the salvation scriptures are referring to timely deliverances and not eternal deliverances. Unless you rightly divide the salvation scriptures they will not harmonize.

 

[forsha]

Not going to repeat myself. I do not believe in Works Salvation. I argued with Works Salvationists before. I don't believe we are saved by Works. We are saved by Grace. But Repentance is not a work. Repentance is the result in having a Godly sorrow. That is what 2 Corinthians 7:10 says. Godly Sorrow leads to Repentance unto salvation. Sorry about what? Sorry you sinned. So when you are sorry about your sin before God, what are you going to naturally do? You are going to confess or acknowledge your sin to God and strive to make ammends with God to never sin again. If you do sin, you have God to help you to stop in your sinning. For one can only turn from their sin if they are regenerated spirtually (of which you pointed out and of which I agree). But let's not kid each other here. If you repent, believe the gospel, and accept Jesus as your Savior (Whereby you are born again spiritualy and are saved), you cannot go back to your old way of life and think you are saved. To do so would be to UN-repent. This is not to say that you will be perfect in our Christian lives. However, Jesus does call us unto perfection, though. But yes, believers have sinned. David surely sinned. But David did not say as a sinner and continue to live life as he pleased when he repented of his sin of murder and adultery. David said not to take God's Holy Spirit from him when he repented. Now, why would David say that? If OSAS is true, then he could not say that.

Repentance brings about a deliverance (salvation) but not an eternal salvation. Repentance is an action taken by man and is a work of man.

 

[quickened77]

Wanted to vote but could not find

No , Salvation is necessary for repentance.

 

[ISeeYou]

This is my last reply to Jackson123,

My post you are asking me about starts from considering the question put forth to the OP, he asks a good question in light of the first question, and states at the first this...

I believe repentance is a part of salvation, but I have a question for the OP. Which comes first, repentance, or salvation?

Which comes first, the chicken or the egg, which is good question, so lets think about this (in light of other scriptures) And so I consider, posting...

It says the gifts and callings of God are without repentance (referring to Rom 11:29)

Although we are to account that the longsuffering of the Lord is salvation (2 Peter 3:15) its also his goodness that leadeth us to repentence (Romans 2:4) He is longsuffering to us-ward, in that He is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. (2 Peter 3:9)

Repentance seems to be the goal of the former


Because InSpiritInTruth asks,

Which comes first, repentance, or salvation?

His goodness leads us in to it (ie repentance) Romans 2:4 and His longersuffering is toward us (even that which we are to account as salvation). 2 Peter 3:15

His longsuffering toward us is that he not willing that we should perish (2 Peter 3:9) but there is still an objective, that we should all come to repentance.

Peter saysthe longsuffering waited in the days of Noah which "were sometime disobedient" even while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. Referring to 1Peter 3:20

We are to come to the obedience of the faith, Romans 1:5 thats what Paul said he was given the grace for Ephes 3:2 (even for them to be a partaker in his Phil 1:7) to make obedient all nations in word and in deed Romans 1:5, Romans 15:18. Even as the grace of God teaching us that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world.Titus 2:12

I simply reposted the above and in red added in the chapter/numbers for you, so you can see I am not saying, I am pointing out what they are saying

Note your wresting with it....

I don't quite understand what you try to say.

Do you believe salvation without repentance ?

Which verse did I mention that is giving that impression?

Repentance should accompany salvation, its the gifts and callings are without repentance it says, but the objective is repentance.

Check it and to post 40 to see the verses I believe

Jackson123 notice you keep wresting with Paul in Romans 11:29 in respects to the gifts and callings as it relates to the same being without repentence in that verse.

OK brother. You believe salvation need repentance but gifts don't need it.

What do you mean by gifts ?

I am accounting his longsuffering is salvation, and His goodness leads us to repentance,

But your wrestings are somewhat proving Peters words, in respects to salvation

2 Peter 3:16 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

2 Peter 3:17 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

In respects to your other question about the gifts here...

What do you mean by gifts ?

Again, ((I mean)) absolutely nothing by "the gifts", the apostle Paul does in Romans 11:29.

Accordingly as David wrote in the Psalms (but included both verses)

Pslam 68:18 Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive:thou hastreceived gifts formen; yea, for the rebellious also, that the LORD God might dwell among them. Mentions he is the God of our salvation right here where he shows the gifts in the next verse

Psalm 68:19 Blessed be the Lord, who daily loadeth us [with benefits, even] the God of our salvation. Selah.

As a man ten years my senior should knwow the apostles themselves "mean something" by them ((as they wrote of them)). I just refer to them.

The gifts are simply in the referenced in the verse along with the calling of God which Paul in Rom 11:29 said are without repentance.

Although, you just seem to be wresting with Pauls words in Romans 11:29 which show the same gifts in the context of repentance (even of the same in the context of "without repentance").

You are coming off as desiring to be a little difficult in the way you word a thing for my attention to it (concerning things I did not say). And that particular way of doing things is often used as a tactic in places like this. So it is somewhat to be expected in forums like these by those who truly are, but it is coming off rather trollish.

That is my last response, I would consider looking for someone who claims to be a teacher for any further questions you might have on those verses I am not a teacher.

 

[oldthennew]

JOHN 6:44.
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

ROMANS 2:4.
Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering;
not knowing that the goodness of God leads thee to repentance?

if God leads us and draws to 'repentance' - we will have no doubt of what it is -

 

[JGIG]

So one can still kill as long as they don't follow "do not kill" they have repented?

Your doctrine is beyond ridiculous...

again I say to you Mitspa, put on the whole armore ofthe Most High, not just Galatains or your own heart....

Right because when we're loving one another we're murdering folks . . .

1 Corinthians 7:19, "For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of God?"

Did you read the verse? Is circumcision a part of Old Covenant commandments? Yet the verse says neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything. Well, in the Law circumcision counts for a LOT. So it can't be THOSE commandments which are referred to in 1 Cor. 7:19, can they, or it would be a complete and utter contradiction.

What ARE the commandments of God after the Cross?

Believe on the One He has sent and love one another (and yes, that covers not murdering people, Hizikyah). See Jn. 6:28-29 and 1 Jn. 3:23-24.

-JGIG

 

[ardchoille]

Oh, and by the way, don't forget to vote in the poll, folks. Thank you and may God bless you.

I fail to understand the importance of voting in these polls. Our choices in these polls are not going to change God's word and we weren't placed on earth to win a popularity contest. Would someone be so kind as to explain the importance of these polls? I can understand if they are just for fun, but I see no value in them otherwise.