Is the Devil bound right now...?

[Cassian]

He has a familiar spirit. It is akin to that JW spirit. In both instances you can blow them completely outta the water and they deflect,deceive,lie,and cunningly pull you into their realm of false ,heretical rabbit trails.

Where is your evidence that you have blown the Holy Spirit out of the water? You do like to blaspheme the Holy Spirit, even though it is in ignorance,

 

[Cassian]

You both are easily debunked without invoking a a single dead "church father"
Now you see where invoking the infallibly of the early church gets any bible student
You both invoke the exact same rabbit trail

More ignorance and misinformation. You are getting a little desparate trying to prove your man made theories. Just so you know I never even invoked a Church Father because there were none that the Church accepted relative to premillinnialism. The Bodty, the Ecumecial Council actually declared those that did write about it as an heretical concept.

I invoked the Holy Spirit and His promise throughout time to guard and preserve the Revelation given ONCE in the beginning. It is this Truth that none of you can muster any evidence against because there is none. You are left holding either a heretical view or the modern version, much advanced but still not fully formulatized even after 200 years but still heretical respective of scripture.

That should not prevent any man to believe it, or to enhance it or even develop what he considers a better version than say, Impe.

 

[VCO]

VCO,

Cassian, are you a Jehovah Witness? Why do you need to guess, I have told you specifically which Church I belong to. You even rediculed that point.

I am a member of the Orthodox Church.

Hardly Truth when it has been clearly shown to be of men, modern men at that.

I don't get Truth from individual men. i get it from the Church who was the recipient of that Truth in the beginning via the Apostles. The Truth is what was given and preserved by the Holy Spirit within His Body, of which Christ is the Head. It is NOT from man imposing his best intellectual guess as to what it might mean.

I think you are the one who needs to ask yourself that question.

Christian beliefs and one of the standards is the Nicene Creed. How come you don't hold to the Nicene Creed?
Yes, most Protestants adhere to the change made by the RCC of adding the filioque clause to the Nicene Creed.

k You seem to have a way of self indictment. it fits your position perfectly. You are scoffing at the work of the Holy Spirit in giving and preserving God's revelation to man unchanged for 2000 years. You have yet to show that the Holy Spirit gave us the premillennial concept, and has preseved it within His Body. All you come up with is your man made modern theory of dispensational/premillennialism.

☝t<><

Not at all. In me is genuine LOVE for my LORD, and I know the Holy Spirit is in me, teaching me, and empowering me to do the Work the Father has willed me to do.

What do you mean "How come you don't hold to the Nicene Creed?" I was raised on it in the Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod, and I certainly believe it, even though it is VERY lacking especially concerning the Work of the Holy Spirit. Here is their statement about accepting the Nicene Creed:

[qoute]What are the Ecumenical Creeds?
The three ecumenical creeds in the Book of Concord are theApostles’Creed,the Nicene Creed and the Athanasian Creed. Theyare described as “ecumenical” [universal] because they areaccepted by Christians worldwide as correct expressions of whatGod’s Word teaches. www.lcms.org/document.fdoc?src=lcm&id=1089

Here is the Nicene Creed that I was raised on:

Nicene 
Creed

[TABLE="width: 100%, align: center"]
[TR]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made.

Who, for us men for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and was made man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate; He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and sits on the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.

And I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of Life; who proceeds from the Father and the Son; who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; who spoke by the prophets.

And I believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; and I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

☝t<><

NOW obviously, that is NOT everything we Christians are to Believe, it is ONLY the core of our common Beliefs. Later versions of this Creed changed the word catholic to Christian, to end the confusion. Now let me expound on the MAJOR error in thinking that a lot of people who think they are Christians make. It is the Biblical definition of the Word "BELIEVE". They think because they have memorized the Nicene Creed and acknowledge intellectually that it is true, they are SAVED CHRISTIANS. WRONG! Even the Demons believe like that. The word Believe in the Jewish way of thinking involves much, much more than intellectual acknowledgement. It involves a TOTAL willingness to put your whole weight upon what you claim to believe.

For example:

If two Jews walked up to a frozen over lake in early winter, and Jew #1 said to Jew #2, "Do you BELIEVE the ice is thick enough to walk on?"

And Jew #2 responded, "Yes, I BELIEVE it is thick enough to walk on."; and then stuck out only one foot and gingerly tested the ice with that one foot.

Jew #1 would SCREAM, "LIAR! If you genuinely Believed it, you would have boldly walked out there and put your whole weight on what you claimed to BELIEVE."


BELIEVE, therefore, in the Bible is not just intellectually acknowledging something is TRUE, for example:
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

John 6:47 (NKJV)
[SUP]47 [/SUP] Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.

ENGLISH carries a MUCH LOWER meaning to the word BELIEVE than the original languages. At the time CHRIST said that, the word BELIEVE carried a meaning that involved putting a complete TOTAL TRUST IN HIM, or it was LESS than what word BELIEVE meant at the time.

HENCE all those on the Broad Road to Destruction think they are SAVED, when they have NEVER entered the very NARROW GATE of TOTALLY TRUSTING HIM.

Let me prove it to you:

Romans 10:9 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;


It is NOT a CONFESSION, unless it is absolutely true about yourself. In that case, anything less than "absolutely true" would only be a PROFESSION and not a CONFESSION; which is what the demons at GADARA did.

Luke 8:28-30 (ISV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] When he saw Jesus, he screamed, fell down in front of him, and said in a loud voice, "What do you want from me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg you not to torture me!"
[SUP]29 [/SUP] For Jesus was in the process of ordering the unclean spirit to come out of the man. On many occasions the unclean spirit had seized the man, and though he was kept under guard and bound with chains and shackles, he would break the chains and be driven by the demon into deserted places.
[SUP]30 [/SUP] Jesus asked him, "What's your name?" He answered, "Legion," for many demons had gone into him.

The word LORD actually means MASTER, therefore, if you have never surrendered to JESUS as MASTER in your Heart, totally giving HIM CONTROL because you LOVE HIM, it is ONLY a Profession when you call HIM LORD, and you remain UNSAVED.

Matthew 7:21-23 (ISV)
[SUP]21[/SUP] "Not everyone who keeps saying to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will get into the kingdom of heaven, but only the person who keeps doing the will of my Father in heaven.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, we prophesied in your name, drive out demons in your name, and performed many miracles in your name, didn't we?'
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Then I'll tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Get away from me, you evildoers!'"

1 John 2:4 (ISV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] The person who says, "I have come to know him," but doesn't continually keep his commandments is a liar. The truth is not in that person.

The Greek Word "keep" is in the Greek Perfect Tense, which we do not have in English. It therefore is NOT describing Perfection, but rather a Lifestyle of Striving to KEEP. And what do we do when we fail? Refer back to 1 John 1:9, which is also describing a Lifestyle of confessing and repenting of sin, every time we find it in our lives.

P.S. Why did I leave the Lutheran Church? ONLY because my born again human spirit was HUNGRY for much more BIBLE TEACHING than I was getting in the 10-15 minute Lutheran Sermons. HENCE I found that most non-Denominational Community Bible Churches teach the Word of GOD for nearly an hour in every 1.5 hour Service, and my born again human spirit finally ENJOYED a FULL MEAL of the Word of GOD every Sunday.

 

[VCO]

Interesting that you would select another man made religion that is based on scripture. You could not prove them false anymore than you cannot prove premillennialism true since both are simply based on man's opinion as to what scripture might mean. The best a sola scripturist can do is say it does not align with my own personal interpretation.

So you think I cannot prove the Watchtower Society False? OH MY, are you ever wrong:

Here is the FOREWORD in their Second Edition (green hardback) of their New World Translation, their own testimony proves them to be a FALSE PROPHET. The proof that the Watchtower Society added their words into the text of their New World Translation, is found in the Foreword of the Second Edition of the New World Translation, (The Watchtower's own mis-translation of the Bible). The Second Edition of the NWT is that green hardback edition, and you can usually find one at any used book store. Here is the ENTIRE word for word Foreword that I am talking about. I typed it letter by letter, directly from one of those green hardback Second Edition of the NWT:


The following QUOTE is from the 1961 Edition of the Watchtower Society’s: New World Translation:

{QUOTE}

FOREWORD
It is a very responsible thing to translate the Holy Scriptures from their original languages, Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek, into modern speech. Translating the Holy Scriptures means a rendering into another language the thoughts and sayings of the heavenly Author of this sacred library of sixty-six books, Jehovah God, which holy men of long ago put down in writing under inspiration for our benefit today.

That is a sobering thought. The translators who have a fear and love of the divine Author of the Holy Scriptures feel especially a responsibility toward Him to transmit his thoughts and declarations as accurately as possible. They also feel a responsibility toward the searching readers of a modern translation who depend upon the inspired Word of the Most High God for their everlasting salvation.

It was with such sense of solemn responsibility that the committee of dedicated men have produced the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures, over the course of many years. As soon as each part of the translation became available for publication it was turned over to the publishers for printing, all together in six volumes. The New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures, containing the twenty-seven books from Matthew through The Revelation, first appeared in 1950. In due order the volumes of the New World Translation of the Hebrew-Aramaic Scriptures appeared, the first volume in 1953, the second in 1955, the third in 1957, the fourth in 1958, and the fifth in 1960.

From the start of the work it was the desire of the translators to have all these contemplated volumes brought together in the form of one book, inasmuch as the Holy Scriptures are in fact one book by the One Author. To this end, as soon as the final volume of the series had been issued in 1960, the committee set to work to prepare the entire translation for publication under one cover. The committee was then able to take under survey the translation as a whole, and to discern where improvements could be made.

An effort was put forth to bring about even greater consistency in the renderings of the related parts of the Holy Scriptures, such as in harmonizing with the original Hebrew readings the reading of quotations made in the Christian Greek Scriptures. Since the one-volume edition of the Holy Scriptures was to contain no footnotes, many footnote readings that had appeared in the earlier translation in six distinct volumes were lifted and put into the main text of the one-volume edition. This does not mean that the earlier rendering that was now replaced was rejected. Rather, the purpose was to attain to closer conformity to the literal reading in the original languages. All this process has resulted in revisions in the main text of the translation.

The now completed one-volume edition may therefore be properly called a revised edition of the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures. In releasing it for publication we do so with a deep sense of gratitude to the Divine Author of the Holy Scriptures, who has thus privileged us and in whose spirit we have trusted to co-operate with us in this worthy work. We hope for His blessing upon the published translation in behalf of all who read and use it in learning his holy will.

New World Bible Translation Committee
January 17, 1961, New York, N.Y.

{END QUOTE}

 

[VCO]

Interesting that you would select another man made religion that is based on scripture. You could not prove them false anymore than you cannot prove premillennialism true since both are simply based on man's opinion as to what scripture might mean. The best a sola scripturist can do is say it does not align with my own personal interpretation.

Let me guess, you think the Orthodox Church is the ONE AND ONLY TRUE CHURCH. Amazingly every Psuedo Christian Cult has thought the very same thing. Read Again, the first three Chapters of Revelation and you will find that Christ Himself recognizes SEVEN different Types of Churches, who is MAN to recognize LESS.

 

[Cassian]

So you think I cannot prove the Watchtower Society False? OH MY, are you ever wrong:

Here is the FOREWORD in their Second Edition (green hardback) of their New World Translation, their own testimony proves them to be a FALSE PROPHET. The proof that the Watchtower Society added their words into the text of their New World Translation, is found in the Foreword of the Second Edition of the New World Translation, (The Watchtower's own mis-translation of the Bible). The Second Edition of the NWT is that green hardback edition, and you can usually find one at any used book store. Here is the ENTIRE word for word Foreword that I am talking about. I typed it letter by letter, directly from one of those green hardback Second Edition of the NWT:


The following QUOTE is from the 1961 Edition of the Watchtower Society’s: New World Translation:

{QUOTE}

FOREWORD
It is a very responsible thing to translate the Holy Scriptures from their original languages, Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek, into modern speech. Translating the Holy Scriptures means a rendering into another language the thoughts and sayings of the heavenly Author of this sacred library of sixty-six books, Jehovah God, which holy men of long ago put down in writing under inspiration for our benefit today.

That is a sobering thought. The translators who have a fear and love of the divine Author of the Holy Scriptures feel especially a responsibility toward Him to transmit his thoughts and declarations as accurately as possible. They also feel a responsibility toward the searching readers of a modern translation who depend upon the inspired Word of the Most High God for their everlasting salvation.

It was with such sense of solemn responsibility that the committee of dedicated men have produced the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures, over the course of many years. As soon as each part of the translation became available for publication it was turned over to the publishers for printing, all together in six volumes. The New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures, containing the twenty-seven books from Matthew through The Revelation, first appeared in 1950. In due order the volumes of the New World Translation of the Hebrew-Aramaic Scriptures appeared, the first volume in 1953, the second in 1955, the third in 1957, the fourth in 1958, and the fifth in 1960.

From the start of the work it was the desire of the translators to have all these contemplated volumes brought together in the form of one book, inasmuch as the Holy Scriptures are in fact one book by the One Author. To this end, as soon as the final volume of the series had been issued in 1960, the committee set to work to prepare the entire translation for publication under one cover. The committee was then able to take under survey the translation as a whole, and to discern where improvements could be made.

An effort was put forth to bring about even greater consistency in the renderings of the related parts of the Holy Scriptures, such as in harmonizing with the original Hebrew readings the reading of quotations made in the Christian Greek Scriptures. Since the one-volume edition of the Holy Scriptures was to contain no footnotes, many footnote readings that had appeared in the earlier translation in six distinct volumes were lifted and put into the main text of the one-volume edition. This does not mean that the earlier rendering that was now replaced was rejected. Rather, the purpose was to attain to closer conformity to the literal reading in the original languages. All this process has resulted in revisions in the main text of the translation.

The now completed one-volume edition may therefore be properly called a revised edition of the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures. In releasing it for publication we do so with a deep sense of gratitude to the Divine Author of the Holy Scriptures, who has thus privileged us and in whose spirit we have trusted to co-operate with us in this worthy work. We hope for His blessing upon the published translation in behalf of all who read and use it in learning his holy will.

New World Bible Translation Committee
January 17, 1961, New York, N.Y.

{END QUOTE}

All you can prove is that it does not align with your personal interpretation. It is why Protestants are lost in the sea of sola scriptura. If one does not agree with one interpretation, just create your own. Just like you cannot prove that premillennialism is actually scriptural. The best you have is opinion.

I notice that the statement above expresses the very same language, almost word for word as to the work of the Holy Spirit that you espoused.

As to the Nicene Creed, you adhere to one that has a change in it that denies the Trinity. Makes the Holy Spirit less than and other than the fullness of the Godhead. I also notice that many denominations when it comes to the statement of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church place an asterisk and then redefine the meaning. There are many Protestants that do not hold to the understanding of the Incarnation as does the Nicene Creed understood by the Church from the beginning. Many, in fact, 84% in this thread do not understand what the Incarnation accomplished by Christ in failing to understand that He defeated death thereby binding Satan as scripture teaches.

Sounds like sola scripturists change the Nicene Creed just like they change the meaning of scripture to suit their particular interpretation.

 

[Cassian]

Let me guess, you think the Orthodox Church is the ONE AND ONLY TRUE CHURCH. Amazingly every Psuedo Christian Cult has thought the very same thing. Read Again, the first three Chapters of Revelation and you will find that Christ Himself recognizes SEVEN different Types of Churches, who is MAN to recognize LESS.

Must be your interpretation again. Christ has ONLY ONE CHURCH. His Body, it cannot be divided. He established ONE Church and promised to preserve that Body until He comes again. You just have no faith in the Holy Spirit of scripture. You have created one to fit your own perameters and then castigate the one of scripture. More rationalization to suit your own interpretation and make plurality and relativism valid.

 

[ukok102nak]

:smoke: remember this
Isaiah: 55. 4. Behold I have given him for a witness to the people, for a leader and a master to the Gentiles.
5. Behold thou shalt call a nation, which thou knewest not: and the nations that knew not thee shall run to thee, because of the Lord thy God, and for the Holy One of Israel, for he hath glorified thee.
6. Seek ye the Lord, while he may be found: call upon him, while he is near.
7. Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unjust man his thoughts, and let him return to the Lord, and he will have mercy on him, and to our God: for he is bountiful to forgive.
8. For my thoughts are not your thoughts: nor your ways my ways, saith the Lord. 9. For as the heavens are exalted above the earth, so are my ways exalted above your ways, and my thoughts above your thoughts.

*for man become an instrument of god . ...
Revelation: 22. 1. And he showed me a river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2. In the midst of the street thereof, and on both sides of the river, was the tree of life, bearing twelve fruits, yielding its fruits every month, and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
3. And there shall be no curse any more; but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and his servants shall serve him.
4. And they shall see his face: and his name shall be on their foreheads.
5. And night shall be no more: and they shall not need the light of the lamp, nor the light of the sun, because the Lord God shall enlighten them, and they shall reign for ever and ever.
6. And he said to me: These words are most faithful and true. And the Lord God of the spirits of the prophets sent his angel to shew his servants the things which must be done shortly.
7. And, Behold I come quickly. Blessed is he that keepeth the words of the prophecy of this book.

Gos bless us always

:ty:

 

[VCO]

All you can prove is that it does not align with your personal interpretation. It is why Protestants are lost in the sea of sola scriptura. If one does not agree with one interpretation, just create your own. Just like you cannot prove that premillennialism is actually scriptural. The best you have is opinion.

I notice that the statement above expresses the very same language, almost word for word as to the work of the Holy Spirit that you espoused.

As to the Nicene Creed, you adhere to one that has a change in it that denies the Trinity. Makes the Holy Spirit less than and other than the fullness of the Godhead. I also notice that many denominations when it comes to the statement of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church place an asterisk and then redefine the meaning. There are many Protestants that do not hold to the understanding of the Incarnation as does the Nicene Creed understood by the Church from the beginning. Many, in fact, 84% in this thread do not understand what the Incarnation accomplished by Christ in failing to understand that He defeated death thereby binding Satan as scripture teaches.

Sounds like sola scripturists change the Nicene Creed just like they change the meaning of scripture to suit their particular interpretation.

STRANGE, then how did I understand it as a child reciting it as saying the three were co-equally the SAME and ONLY GOD, Who has ever existed. Sounds to me like YOU were taught a twisted false perception of our beliefs; and who does it say is the father of ALL lies? You were taught by a false prophet, or a teacher who was deceived by lies about what we teach and believe. THEN you come in here and try to spread those lies based on NOTHING but the false perceptions that you were taught.

How about ASKING US WHAT WE BELIEVE FIRST, instead of spreading lies about our beliefs?

Here is the MOST THOROUGH Doctrinal Statement of Faith that I know. PLEASE read it before you make one more FALSE STATEMENT about our Beliefs.

Grace to You

 

[ukok102nak]

:scarf: were so glad that this verses are written in the in the scriptures
Because if what is written is been deny but those people . . . ...
what will be the basis of others who accept that which is written :hmm:
Revelation: 1. 10. I was in the spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
11. Saying: What thou seest, write in a book, and send to the seven churches which are in Asia, to Ephesus, and to Smyrna, and to Pergamus, and to Thyatira, and to Sardis, and to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.

*THATS WHY THOSE PEOPLE ASKING QUESTIONS
TO SOMEONE OR TO OTHERS UNTO SOMETHING WHICH THOSE PEOPLE BELIEFS
HE/SHE/THEY HAVE A POSSESSION OF THE THINGS THAT DOESNT EVEN EXIST
IN THE SENSE OF REALITY BUT ONLY TO TESTIFY FALSE ACCUSATIONS TO OTHERS BECAUSE OF THEIR OWN SELF INTEREST :sigh:
Rather to achieved something better than to him/her/them selves
Not only for their own benefits but to all who believed what is right according to their own conscience :happy:
:rofl: IF THE CONSCIENCE DEFINED BY SCIENCE AND NOT BY THE HEART AND SOUL THEREFOR WE HAVE NO FURTHER COMMENTS UNTO ANYTHING THAT IS AGAINST IT :yawn:

:smoke: remember this
Isaiah: 55. 4. Behold I have given him for a witness to the people, for a leader and a master to the Gentiles.
5. Behold thou shalt call a nation, which thou knewest not: and the nations that knew not thee shall run to thee, because of the Lord thy God, and for the Holy One of Israel, for he hath glorified thee.
6. Seek ye the Lord, while he may be found: call upon him, while he is near.
7. Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unjust man his thoughts, and let him return to the Lord, and he will have mercy on him, and to our God: for he is bountiful to forgive.
8. For my thoughts are not your thoughts: nor your ways my ways, saith the Lord. 9. For as the heavens are exalted above the earth, so are my ways exalted above your ways, and my thoughts above your thoughts.

*for man we mean humans become an instrument of god . ...
Revelation: 22. 1. And he showed me a river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2. In the midst of the street thereof, and on both sides of the river, was the tree of life, bearing twelve fruits, yielding its fruits every month, and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
3. And there shall be no curse any more; but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and his servants shall serve him.
4. And they shall see his face: and his name shall be on their foreheads.
5. And night shall be no more: and they shall not need the light of the lamp, nor the light of the sun, because the Lord God shall enlighten them, and they shall reign for ever and ever.
6. And he said to me: These words are most faithful and true. And the Lord God of the spirits of the prophets sent his angel to shew his servants the things which must be done shortly.
7. And, Behold I come quickly. Blessed is he that keepeth the words of the prophecy of this book.

Gos bless us always

:ty:

 

[VCO]

Must be your interpretation again. Christ has ONLY ONE CHURCH. His Body, it cannot be divided. He established ONE Church and promised to preserve that Body until He comes again. You just have no faith in the Holy Spirit of scripture. You have created one to fit your own perameters and then castigate the one of scripture. More rationalization to suit your own interpretation and make plurality and relativism valid.

Correction the ONE ASSEMBLY is what the GREEK ACTUALLY SAYS, and that ONE ASSEMBLY started with ADAM and includes all true believers of ALL TIME, no matter which CHURCH OR SYNAGOGUE the belonged to here on earth. AND ONCE AGAIN, Christ recognizes SEVEN types of Churches HERE on EARTH, even the Denominational Bigots who think they are the the only true Church GET a few saved. However their pride in their Denomination (falsely thinking they are the only true Chruch), is usually the stumbling block that prevent most from coming through the NARROW GATE.


Revelation 1:20 (HCSB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] The secret of the seven stars you saw in My right hand and of the seven gold lampstands is this: The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.

Matthew 16:18 (ESV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church(G1577), and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

<G1577> Transliterated Word: [FONT=Gentium !important]ekklêsia
[/FONT]Root: from 1537 and 2564;

Definition: an assembly, a (religious) congregation:--

New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible.

Technically the Word "CHURCH" is NOT in the Greek NT. IT LITERALLY SAYS ASSEMBLY. ALL 115 times it was used in the KJV, the correct translation was and is ASSEMBLY. LOOK IT UP. WHY IS THAT IMPORTANT?

Matthew 16:18 (YLT)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] `And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it;


1 Chronicles 28:8 (HCSB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] “So now in the sight of all Israel, the assembly of the LORD, and in the hearing of our God, observe and follow all the commands of the LORD your God so that you may possess this good land and leave it as an inheritance to your descendants forever.

Numbers 16:26 (NIV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] He warned the assembly, "Move back from the tents of these wicked men! Do not touch anything belonging to them, or you will be swept away because of all their sins."

Deuteronomy 23:8 (ESV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Children born to them in the third generation may enter the assembly of the LORD.

John 10:16 (NKJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.

 

[VCO]

All you can prove is that it does not align with your personal interpretation. It is why Protestants are lost in the sea of sola scriptura. If one does not agree with one interpretation, just create your own. Just like you cannot prove that premillennialism is actually scriptural. The best you have is opinion.

I notice that the statement above expresses the very same language, almost word for word as to the work of the Holy Spirit that you espoused.

As to the Nicene Creed, you adhere to one that has a change in it that denies the Trinity. Makes the Holy Spirit less than and other than the fullness of the Godhead. I also notice that many denominations when it comes to the statement of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church place an asterisk and then redefine the meaning. There are many Protestants that do not hold to the understanding of the Incarnation as does the Nicene Creed understood by the Church from the beginning. Many, in fact, 84% in this thread do not understand what the Incarnation accomplished by Christ in failing to understand that He defeated death thereby binding Satan as scripture teaches.

Sounds like sola scripturists change the Nicene Creed just like they change the meaning of scripture to suit their particular interpretation.

Don't you get it, the Watchtower Translation Team admitted they lifted their own words into the Text as if they were equal to the Word of GOD. So when they changed John 1:1 from "was GOD" to "was a god" as it now reads, that was one of their many footnotes that they lifted into the Text.

 

[Cassian]

STRANGE, then how did I understand it as a child reciting it as saying the three were co-equally the SAME and ONLY GOD, Who has ever existed. Sounds to me like YOU were taught a twisted false perception of our beliefs; and who does it say is the father of ALL lies? You were taught by a false prophet, or a teacher who was deceived by lies about what we teach and believe. THEN you come in here and try to spread those lies based on NOTHING but the false perceptions that you were taught.

How about ASKING US WHAT WE BELIEVE FIRST, instead of spreading lies about our beliefs?

Here is the MOST THOROUGH Doctrinal Statement of Faith that I know. PLEASE read it before you make one more FALSE STATEMENT about our Beliefs.

Grace to You

VCO,

STRANGE, then how did I understand it as a child reciting it as saying the three were co-equally the SAME and ONLY GOD, Who has ever existed. Sounds to me like YOU were taught a twisted false perception of our beliefs; and who does it say is the father of ALL lies? You were taught by a false prophet, or a teacher who was deceived by lies about what we teach and believe. THEN you come in here and try to spread those lies based on NOTHING but the false perceptions that you were taught.

Words have meaning. When you cite a creed that changes the meaning of the Trinity, you have a conflict or the words you just stated don't really reflect what you believe. It has not been the first time that Protestants using the same words have entirely different meanings for them than they had prior to the Reformation. Or you are ignorant of the distinction.

How about ASKING US WHAT WE BELIEVE FIRST, instead of spreading lies about our beliefs?

A Christian would never need to ask that question. Christians have always believed and practiced Christianity the same until Rome split from the Church and Protestants split from Rome. Now, within the sola scriptura, one needs to ask what one believes because there are many ways to be saved, there are new meanings to words and each interpreter can devise his own religion.

Here is the MOST THOROUGH Doctrinal Statement of Faith that I know. PLEASE read it before you make one more FALSE STATEMENT about our Beliefs.

I read it. Macarthur writes a very good synopsis of certain Christians who believe the same as He does. He is a good Calvinist in most of his theology and a premillennialists as well. However, he misses for the most part what scripture has always meant on the topics he posted. Only a few could I agree with that matches all Christians prior to the Reformation.

He holds to Original Sin, he holds to the penal, substitutionary form of atonement, as well as limited I would imagine, implied but not directly stated, which would be a denial theologcially of the Incarnation, which shows in his definition of the Church. He also holds to faith only but does later include what Christians have always called the law of faith or Christ. However, they have nothing to do with salvation which he equates with justification, in fact states emphatically that they have no connection. Also holds to the principle of sola scriptura, Probably the only real uniting factor between all denominations and so-called non denominational groups.

There is much more, but the fact is, it applies to particular Christians who accept the very particular teachings of Augustine on several, Calvin on adopting Augustinian theology and ebelishing it, and McArther himself, probably. He is of the Moody, Dallas wing of the Evangellcal form of Christianity.
There is much more I could add as it is an almost entirely different paradigm from all Christians prior the RCC and Reformational splits from the One True Church Christ established with ONLY ONE revelation that has ONLY ONE meaning. It is not relative to ones opinion, it surely is not pluralistic. Nothing about any sacraments, which was quite revealing.

 

[Cassian]

VCO,

Correction the ONE ASSEMBLY is what the GREEK ACTUALLY SAYS, and that ONE ASSEMBLY started with ADAM and includes all true believers of ALL TIME, no matter which CHURCH OR SYNAGOGUE the belonged to here on earth. AND ONCE AGAIN, Christ recognizes SEVEN types of Churches HERE on EARTH, even the Denominational Bigots who think they are the the only true Church GET a few saved. However their pride in their Denomination (falsely thinking they are the only true Chruch), is usually the stumbling block that prevent most from coming through the NARROW GATE.

Again that is pure sola scripturist/protestantism. That view has never been understood as you state it. It is not even held by the RCC either, even as a Church is schism.

You blather a lot of unsubstantiated jargon here. How about proving your assertions. Ah, but there is no proof, just your opinion. It stems from a faulty understanding of who Christ actually is as the Incarnated Lord, who established a real Church, His Body, that Incarnated Body here on earth which has existed united in Christ, united in faith, since Pentecost.

Luther had a major problem. He was excommunicated from the Catholic Church and now found himself outside of Christ's Body as he understood it. He didn't let that stop him from creating a whole new definition of Church, a philosophical one that he put himself into and all sola scripturist have done the same since. The ONLY problem is that the Holy Spirit did not establish a philosophically defined church, but a real one, ontologically, organically the actual Body of Christ here on earth. You want Christ on earth, then join His established Church as he establishes it, not a man by the name of Luther.

Matthew 16:18 (ESV)
18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church(G1577), and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

And the Holy Spirit has prevailed in preserving His Body here on earth and the revelation is still unified as He is with the Father. He has prevented any man to impose his own interpretations upon His revelation such as the likes of Luther, Calvin and a host of others including Miller, Lindsey, et el.

Matthew 16:18 (YLT)
18 `And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it;

And where is this assembly, the assempbly that He entrusted His revelation, which ONLY scriopture is a written testament to the whole of that Revelation.
It happens also to have the same meaning as Catholic. Catholic as Ignatius first used it in the second century means whole and complete. Every single congregation is fullness of the Body of Christ. It has the Trinitarian meaning of many are one. Hardly the Protestant view of "church/assembly.

So, in the end all you have are Protestant definitions established by men's interpretation of what they think a text means.

 

[Cassian]

Don't you get it, the Watchtower Translation Team admitted they lifted their own words into the Text as if they were equal to the Word of GOD. So when they changed John 1:1 from "was GOD" to "was a god" as it now reads, that was one of their many footnotes that they lifted into the Text.

At least they are honest about it. What is the difference if you take a word and assign a whole new meaning to it. Calvinist might as well adopt his Institutes as a supplement to scripture, it changes what scripture has always meant so much so, it has become as totally different paradigm, just as much as Jehovah Witnesses or Seventh Day Adventists and a host of others.

You have been doing that with the whole theory of dispensational/premillennialism. What is different? Just the men to devise it.

You were Lutheran and Luther wanted to excise James because it did not agree with His "faith only" theory. How arrogant is that?

 

[ukok102nak]

:read:
Job: 13. 7. Hath God any need of your lie, that you should speak deceitfully for him?
8. Do you accept his person, and do you endeavour to judge for God?
9. Or shall it please him, from whom nothing can be concealed ? or shall he be deceived as a man, with your deceitful dealings ?
10. He shall reprove you, because in secret you accept his person.
11. As soon as he shall move himself, he shall trouble you: and his dread shall fall upon you.
12. Your remembrance shall be compared to ashes, and your necks shall be brought to clay.

1 Peter: 2. 15. For so is the will of God, that by doing well you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:
16. As free, and not as making liberty a cloak for malice, but as the servants of God.

Revelation: 21. 26. And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
27. There shall not enter into it any thing defiled, or that worketh abomination or maketh a lie, but they that are written in the book of life of the Lamb.

:smoke: thank you very much :happy:

God bless us all always

 

[VCO]

VCO,

Words have meaning. When you cite a creed that changes the meaning of the Trinity, you have a conflict or the words you just stated don't really reflect what you believe. It has not been the first time that Protestants using the same words have entirely different meanings for them than they had prior to the Reformation. Or you are ignorant of the distinction.

A Christian would never need to ask that question. Christians have always believed and practiced Christianity the same until Rome split from the Church and Protestants split from Rome. Now, within the sola scriptura, one needs to ask what one believes because there are many ways to be saved, there are new meanings to words and each interpreter can devise his own religion.

I read it. Macarthur writes a very good synopsis of certain Christians who believe the same as He does. He is a good Calvinist in most of his theology and a premillennialists as well. However, he misses for the most part what scripture has always meant on the topics he posted. Only a few could I agree with that matches all Christians prior to the Reformation.

He holds to Original Sin, he holds to the penal, substitutionary form of atonement, as well as limited I would imagine, implied but not directly stated, which would be a denial theologcially of the Incarnation, which shows in his definition of the Church. He also holds to faith only but does later include what Christians have always called the law of faith or Christ. However, they have nothing to do with salvation which he equates with justification, in fact states emphatically that they have no connection. Also holds to the principle of sola scriptura, Probably the only real uniting factor between all denominations and so-called non denominational groups.

There is much more, but the fact is, it applies to particular Christians who accept the very particular teachings of Augustine on several, Calvin on adopting Augustinian theology and ebelishing it, and McArther himself, probably. He is of the Moody, Dallas wing of the Evangellcal form of Christianity.
There is much more I could add as it is an almost entirely different paradigm from all Christians prior the RCC and Reformational splits from the One True Church Christ established with ONLY ONE revelation that has ONLY ONE meaning. It is not relative to ones opinion, it surely is not pluralistic. Nothing about any sacraments, which was quite revealing.

Now I am beginning to see your major PROBLEM, you are hung up on LABELS, and keep trying PIN THEM LABELS ON PEOPLE WHERE THEY DO NOT FIT. You have tried to pin several on me, and THEY DO NOT FIT. MacArthur is NOT a Calvinist, like me, he only believes in 3 of the 5 points of Calvinism. THUS we are by rejected by both sides of that Argument.

I did a LOT of Church hopping in my younger years, thus I a familiar with the Doctrinal Statements of Faith of SEVERAL Denominations, and THEY ALL BELIEVE WHOLE HEARTEDLY WITH THE DOCTRINE of the HOLY TRINITY. ANY one that denies any part of that Doctrine, as far as I am concerned, is of a Psuedo-Christian Cult. YES we are Conservative Evangelicals, like Moody Bible Institute, Dallas Theological Seminary, The Master's Seminary, etc.; but believe me that does not make us 5 Point Calvinists. I think it is getting VERY HARD to find a true 5 Point Calvinist any more.

I know of ONLY ONE WAY to be SAVED, only Psuedo-Christian Cults come up with other ways that absolutely FALSE, such as works righteousness. That ONE WAY is by genuinely repenting of one's sins, and receiving JESUS Christ as LORD out LOVE for HIM. THAT IS THE NARROW GATE.

 

[VCO]

At least they are honest about it. What is the difference if you take a word and assign a whole new meaning to it. Calvinist might as well adopt his Institutes as a supplement to scripture, it changes what scripture has always meant so much so, it has become as totally different paradigm, just as much as Jehovah Witnesses or Seventh Day Adventists and a host of others.

You have been doing that with the whole theory of dispensational/premillennialism. What is different? Just the men to devise it.

You were Lutheran and Luther wanted to excise James because it did not agree with His "faith only" theory. How arrogant is that?

You would do well to study Messianic Christianity. You will find that it was the KJV so-called Translators that ABANDONED the original Greek meanings of several words. In fact in the Foreward 1611 KJV the Translators, admitted that they were NOT TRANSLATING; but rather just improving the wording of the older English Translations. THAT IS NOT A TRANSLATION, THAT IS A PARAPHRASE. It my well be a very good PARAPHRASE, but it is very far from an actual TRANSLATION OF THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGES.

. . . Truly (good Christian Reader) wee never thought from the beginning, that we should neede to make a new Translation, nor yet to make of a bad one a good one, (for then the imputation of Sixtus had bene true in some sort, that our people had bene fed with gall of Dragons in stead of wine, with whey in stead of milke, but to make a good one better, or out of many good ones, one principall good one, not justly to be excepted against; that hath bene our indeavour, that our marke. . . .{That makes it a PARAPHRASE and not an actual Translation from the original languages.}

http://www.kjvbibles.com/kjpreface.htm

 

[valiant]

Even Jesus himself would have to leave tha amils to their invincible ignorance.

Of course He would for He was an amillennialist Himself. As were Paul, Peter, James and John

You are addressing a spirit,a religious spirit. He is invincibly ignorant,as is Valliant and bowman.

Quite right we are filled with the Holy Spirit, Who has shown us the truth shared by the majority of evangelical Christians throughout the world that we are in the final age and what awaits us is the everlasting kingdom which is totally unconnected with this physical world..

Our Jesus does not reign for a thousand years over a spurious mixture of mortals and immortals and end up a failure. He is for ever triumphant.

But at least we do not show your incomparable arrogance

 

[ukok102nak]

``A MAN MADE DOCTRINE ARE ALWAYS BASE ON OPINION OF HUMAN MINDS AND NOT IN THE WRITTEN WORDS OF GOD``
:smoke: THOSE WHO BELIEVES ON EVERLASTING REIGN OF GOD WHO IS GOOD AND DOESNT LIE AND TO HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON WHO IS OUR SAVIOUR
WHEN THE TIME COMES . ...
BUT DENIES THEIR WORDS WERE SIMPLY A FAILURE OF THOSE PEOPLE FROM THEIR OWN UNDERSTANDING
Revelation: 1. 1. The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to make known to his servants the things which must shortly come to pass: and signified, sending by his angel to his servant John,
2. Who hath given testimony to the word of God, and the testimony of Jesus Christ, what things soever he hath seen.

*Remember always that no one shall have any understanding to all of this
IF THIS WERE NOT ALL WRITTEN FROM THE START
Revelation: 22. 18. For I testify to every one that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book: If any man shall add to these things, God shall add unto him the plagues written in this book.
19. And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from these things that are written in this book.
20. He that giveth testimony of these things, saith, Surely I come quickly: Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.
21. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

God bless us all

:ty: