Is the false teaching of pre-tribulation rapture, getting the power of "him" out of the way, who restrains the antichrist?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
This is the Mazzaroth.

Job_38:32 Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?
 
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
Mat_10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

How is that Jesus told 12 guys standing in front of him that they would not have time to preach to the cities in Israel BEFORE the Son of man came?
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,495
113
Paul wrote a letter after resurrection, why Paul expect second coming?

1 tes 4
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Descent from heaven

When? In His resurrection? It was ascended to not descend from
Your 100% correct, dont entertain any teaching otherwise

There will be a future second coming of Jesus Christ in the heavens, and the believers that died in faith will be resurrected and receive their glorified body on the last day
 
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
He denies a future second coming of Jesus Christ in the heavens, he denies a future bodily resurrection of the believer

His belief is (Full Preterism)
Come on now, you come in here spreading lies that I’m a heretic because I believe the Bible over your version. Answer the question.

According to mazzaroth, the thing God made to be for SIGNS, which SIGN of the Mazzaroth did we enter into 2000 years ago when Christ RETURNED from the grave? Could it have been Pisces, the CHRISTian age?

Gen 1:14 (KJV) And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
I never read a verse that say those that killed by Satan is christian that left behind rapture.
I never read a verse that says the opposite.

I never read a verse that Jesus burped.
Or that Jesus ate popcorn.

You are trying to make a point off cherry picked omissions.

Rabbit trail
 
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
I never read a verse that says the opposite.

I never read a verse that Jesus burped.
Or that Jesus ate popcorn.

You are trying to make a point off cherry picked omissions.

Rabbit trail
Sorry I haven’t followed this part of the conversation very closely, but what you call the rapture is the translation, the event where Christians receive their new bodies. Are you saying that some believers won’t take part in that?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
Mat 28:2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
Mat 28:3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:

Who is The Angel of the Lord, not AN angel of the Lord but The Angel of the Lord?
Angel in this verse is not Jesus, Jesus was still on earth, no need descend.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
I never read a verse that says the opposite.

I never read a verse that Jesus burped.
Or that Jesus ate popcorn.

You are trying to make a point off cherry picked omissions.

Rabbit trail
I did read verse that say rapture after man of sin being reveal or tribulation

2 tes 2

3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

That day will not come ........until a man of lawlessness being reveal

Matt 24

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Immediately after tribulation .... not before.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
Come on now, you come in here spreading lies that I’m a heretic because I believe the Bible over your version. Answer the question.

According to mazzaroth, the thing God made to be for SIGNS, which SIGN of the Mazzaroth did we enter into 2000 years ago when Christ RETURNED from the grave? Could it have been Pisces, the CHRISTian age?

Gen 1:14 (KJV) And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
You learn from the Bible or mazzaroth, who is mazzaroth?
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,375
113
Non of these verse say great tribulation after rapture.
Hi Jackson!

Regarding the great tribulation, Matthew 24:15-22 has it starting when the abomination is set up in the temple, which according to Daniel 9:27, begins in the middle of the seven years.

"He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."

Jesus quoting Daniel from the scripture above:

"So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let the one who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house, 18and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak. 19And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! 20Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. 21For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. 22And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.

So, Daniel 9:27 establishes the seven year time period, with the abomination being set up in the middle of the seven years. Then in Matt.24:21 Jesus identifies the great tribulation as begging when the abomination is set up.

Now all of that said, since Jesus already experienced God's wrath on behalf of every believer, satisfying it completely, then God's wrath no longer rests upon those who are in Christ. And since God's wrath will come upon the whole world during that entire seven years, including the great tribulation which begins in the middle of the seven years, then the church must be removed prior to that last seven years of God's wrath. At the end of the of the great tribulation, which again is that last 3 1/2 years, Jesus returns to the earth to end the age and set up His millennial kingdom.

So, do you now understand now why the gathering of the church (rapture) must take place prior to the great tribulation and prior to the beginning of that seven years? Understanding this all has to do with understanding that believers in the church are not appointed to suffer God's wrath because Jesus already did. And since the great tribulation is apart of the time period of God's wrath, then the church cannot be on the earth to experience it and must be removed before it begins.

Below, Isaiah says that the Lord took upon himself God's wrath that brought us peace.

==================================================
Surely He took on our infirmities

and carried our sorrows;

yet we considered Him stricken by God,

struck down and afflicted.

But He was pierced for our transgressions,

He was crushed for our iniquities;

the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him,

and by His stripes we are healed.
==================================================

Let me know if you have any other concerns regarding this.
 
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
Angel in this verse is not Jesus, Jesus was still on earth, no need descend.
Ok let’s say your right and you may be right in saying this doesn’t fit what Paul is saying about Jesus descending from heaven.

Let’s look at this point. The Old Testament saints were the dead in Christ. Those saints rose with Christ at his resurrection. This puts the start of the resurrection at the resurrection of Christ.
 
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
You learn from the Bible or mazzaroth, who is mazzaroth?
Mazzaroth is from the book of Job. It’s the procession of the equinox. Astrology is a corrupted version of Mazzaroth.

Job 38:32 Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
Now all of that said, since Jesus already experienced God's wrath on behalf of every believer, satisfying it completely, then God's wrath no longer rests upon those who are in Christ. And since God's wrath will come
Tribulation is not only god wrath. But start with devil wrath finish with God wrath

Regarding the great tribulation, Matthew 24:15-22 has it starting when the abomination is set up in the temple, which according to Daniel 9:27, begins in the middle of the seven years.
Yes and immediately after tribulation, not before the Son of man appear on the cloud, that when rapture happen

Matthew 24:29-30
King James Version
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
Ok let’s say your right and you may be right in saying this doesn’t fit what Paul is saying about Jesus descending from heaven.

Let’s look at this point. The Old Testament saints were the dead in Christ. Those saints rose with Christ at his resurrection. This puts the start of the resurrection at the resurrection of Christ.
Yep, but there will be another event where Jesus ascend from heaven to end this world.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
Mazzaroth is from the book of Job. It’s the procession of the equinox. Astrology is a corrupted version of Mazzaroth.

Job 38:32 Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?
What is the relation between mazzaroth and second coming?
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
2,112
113
Yep, but there will be another event where Jesus ascend from heaven to end this world.
The bold ^ is not what Scripture states will take place at the time of His Second Coming to the earth [to which you are referring];
rather, the phrase which pertains to THAT point in the chronology is: "the end [singular] of the age [singular]"



["the age [singular] to come" is what FOLLOWS that point in time, and also takes place upon the earth--the word "age [singular]" connects with earth-time/[and]-history... whereas the phrase "the ages [plural] of the ages [plural]" is what we call "eternal/eternity/forever/forever-and-ever"/endlessness, etc...]
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,375
113
Tribulation is not only god wrath. But start with devil wrath finish with God wrath



Yes and immediately after tribulation, not before the Son of man appear on the cloud, that when rapture happen
Really? How do you explain the bride already being in heaven and then following the Lord out of heaven to the earth then?

Matthew 24:29-30
King James Version
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
The event above it when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age and those who will have previously be resurrected and caught up will be with Him, when the Lord returns. It is not gathering of the church.

As usual, you are not discerning the difference between the gathering of the church and the Lord's return to the earth as being two separate events. You are counting them as the same. And by doing so, you put the church through God's wrath, which we are not appointed to suffer. Why don't you understand these things?

The reference in verse 31 to sending out His angels, is the gathering of those great tribulation saints who will have made it alive throughout the entire tribulation period.

Regardless of what Satan does during that time, the entire period is designated as 'the Day of the Lord,' i.e. the time of God's wrath.