Is the first resurrection divided into two groups?

[Pilgrimshope]

No.

With regard to 'resurrection', Christ - and only Christ - is the 'firstfruits'.

You are suggesting something that scripture does not say.

“But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭27:52-53‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Christ's resurrection includes only Christ. Others are resurrected later.

“If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?…. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

…Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: ….Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3, 5, 8, 11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

you should try discussing instead of trying to insist people are wrong . I don’t expect this will help lol but there is this resurrection in Christ for believers

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when a person is born again , it should be a clue, that there’s a new eternal life that’s occurred everlasting is everlasting

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:51‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s because they have followed the spirit and put the flesh to death

 

[DavidTree]

Christ's resurrection includes only Christ. Others are resurrected later.

Hi Gary,
I would like to hear your take on this - thanks

And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit.

51Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, 52and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

“But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭27:52-53‬ ‭KJV‬‬




“If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?…. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

…Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: ….Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3, 5, 8, 11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

you should try discussing instead of trying to insist people are wrong . I don’t expect this will help lol but there is this resurrection in Christ for believers

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when a person is born again , it should be a clue, that there’s a new eternal life that’s occurred everlasting is everlasting

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:51‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s because they have followed the spirit and put the flesh to death

try grasping this concept it requires faith though

“Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature:

old things are passed away;

behold, all things are become new.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and when I said faith I’m talking about this faith

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and hearing his word

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this word

“Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:35‬ ‭

this word

“being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

…But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭1:23, 25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

of your willing to hear it it’s what Jesus actually said and it’s the actual good news deliverance from death through dying with him bearing our cross now and letting the flesh die . and rising with him in the spirit again this word

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Which gives entrance here

“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Everlasting life is the good news everlasting life doesn’t cease and wait till later we’re born into eternal life now through his death and resurrection .we will shed our earthly body one day and our spiritual body will enter the kingdom

“it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:44‬ ‭KJV‬‬


You should consider this thinking it’s in scripture consistently and structures the whole New Testament doctrines

 

[TMS]

In conclusion, what I see is that the first resurrection actually has two groups. The first group is martyred saints from the great tribulation who came to life for 1,000 years. The second group is all of the others saints who didn’t come to life until after 1,000 years.

The says that the first ressurection is before the 1000 years and the second is after the 1000 years.

Only two resurrections in total. The saved and the unsaved. The "rest of the dead" are the unsaved and are raised after the 1000 years.

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Rev_20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev_21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Act 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

only two are mentioned.

1Co 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1Co 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Do

The says that the first ressurection is before the 1000 years and the second is after the 1000 years.

Only two resurrections in total. The saved and the unsaved. The "rest of the dead" are the unsaved and are raised after the 1000 years.

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Rev_20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev_21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Act 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

only two are mentioned.

1Co 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1Co 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

Do you think the thousand years is literal ? Being its in revelation looking from heavens perspective or Gods perspective like brother oyster said ?

“But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[GaryA]

Hi Gary,
I would like to hear your take on this - thanks

And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit.

51Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, 52and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

I believe saints were raised back to life - and then died later on...

Nothing permanent.

No glorified bodies.

 

[Runningman]

Is this one of those resurrections ? And does it also foretell another to come after ?


“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming,

and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24-25, 28-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

does that fit in those scriptures anywhere regarding both resurrections one present and one in the end ?

And yes Revelation 20:4-6 says there’s a first resurrection before and after the MK. You’re trying too hard to debunk scripture using scripture rather than making them mesh together.

Yes, the time will come when all will hear His voice and come forth. The resurrection of life and resurrection of damnation don’t occur simultaneously at the same time or there wouldn’t be a first and second resurrection. There’s clearly a timespan between the resurrections.

 

[TMS]

Do



Do you think the thousand years is literal ? Being its in revelation looking from heavens perspective or Gods perspective like brother oyster said ?

“But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If it is one day or one 1000 years it does not really matter as long as you are part of the first resurrection and are with Jesus until the second resurrection, so that you are not part of the unsaved (second resurrection).

 

[DavidTree]

I believe saints were raised back to life - and then died later on...

Nothing permanent.

No glorified bodies.

Agree - Christ is the Firstfruit(Resurrected and Glorified Immortal Body) unto God and there can be no other until His Second Coming.

Thanks Gary

 

[Pilgrimshope]

And yes Revelation 20:4-6 says there’s a first resurrection before and after the MK. You’re trying too hard to debunk scripture using scripture rather than making them mesh together.

Yes, the time will come when all will hear His voice and come forth. The resurrection of life and resurrection of damnation don’t occur simultaneously at the same time or there wouldn’t be a first and second resurrection. There’s clearly a timespan between the resurrections.

actually your trying to base doctrine on a verse from the book Of revelation and skipping the gospel which is what helps us understand revelation along with the prophets

revelation is never going to be understood without the foundation of the prophets and gospel it’s a vision of someone in heaven seeing things occurring in heaven and how those things are affecting the earth.

your stuck on revelation but not accepting the things that help you understand revelation

 

[Runningman]

The says that the first ressurection is before the 1000 years and the second is after the 1000 years.

Only two resurrections in total. The saved and the unsaved. The "rest of the dead" are the unsaved and are raised after the 1000 years.

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Rev_20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev_21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Act 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

only two are mentioned.

1Co 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1Co 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

The way it reads to me is that the first resurrection has a first group of tribulation saints who were martyred; the receive a resurrected body first before the rest of the dead. After 1,000 years the rest of the dead are resurrected too. Both resurrection groups are the first resurrection.

Revelation 20:4-6
4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[DavidTree]

Do



Do you think the thousand years is literal ? Being its in revelation looking from heavens perspective or Gods perspective like brother oyster said ?

“But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Here is the KEY to the answer of that question - literal or symbolic 1,000 Years?

Revelation chapter 20 - the LORD does not use a single symbolic term(s)/word/language as HE did before this chapter.

PROOF TEXT: Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;

Everyone needs to ask: Why now at chapter 20 does the LORD drop the symbolism?

 

[GaryA]

Revelation 20:4-6 says the first resurrection contains two groups. They will not all be resurrected together at the same time. Each group is 1,000 years apart.

And yes Revelation 20:4-6 says there’s a first resurrection before and after the MK.

No - there is not!

You are misreading the text.

I will see about trying to explain it in a bit...

 

[Runningman]

actually your trying to base doctrine on a verse from the book Of revelation and skipping the gospel which is what helps us understand revelation along with the prophets

revelation is never going to be understood without the foundation of the prophets and gospel it’s a vision of someone in heaven seeing things occurring in heaven and how those things are affecting the earth.

your stuck on revelation but not accepting the things that help you understand revelation

I’ve read the gospels. I don’t see that there is a problem between the description of the resurrection in the gospels and in Revelation 20.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Agree - Christ is the Firstfruit(Resurrected and Glorified Immortal Body) unto God and there can be no other until His Second Coming.

Thanks Gary

Brother normally you want scripture to come to a conclusion like that. does the scripture suggest anywhere that they died again ? And wouldn’t that violate this anyways ?

“And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

how is it that they died, rose for a spectacle , died again and now wait to be resurrected again ? Is there any suggestion in scriotiee of that ?

“Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:”
‭‭John‬ ‭11:25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And what happened to this guy ? Is he without a spiritual body ?

“And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭23:43‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I’ve read the gospels. I don’t see that there is a problem between the description of the resurrection in the gospels and in Revelation 20.

what are you doing with this resurrection ?

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

is that also not one ? Or does it require us to believe what he’s saying ?

also are you waiting for the flesh earthly body to be risen up ? Or a spiritual body ?

 

[DavidTree]

neither normally you want scripture to come to a conclusion like that. does the scripture suggest anywhere that they died again ? And wouldn’t that violate this anyways ?

“And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

how is it that they died, rose for a spectacle , died again and now wait to be resurrected again ? Is there any suggestion in scriotiee of that ?

“Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:”
‭‭John‬ ‭11:25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And what happened to this guy ? Is he without a spiritual body ?

“And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭23:43‬ ‭KJV‬‬

AGREE - AGREE - AGREE

So we need to look elsewhere in Scripture to see if the LORD gave us the answer.

And because we know each other, love each other, and I love a Good Challenge = I leave it to you my Brother in Christ to find it.

BLESSING

(always remember that my heart/mind is open for correction as it is a blessing)

 

[GaryA]

what are you doing with this resurrection ?

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

is that also not one ? Or does it require us to believe what he’s saying ?

also are you waiting for the flesh earthly body to be risen up ? Or a spiritual body ?

This [verse] is not referring to or describing a physical 'resurrection'. It is referring to the 'state' of spiritual salvation - passing from spiritual death into spiritual life.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I’ve read the gospels. I don’t see that there is a problem between the description of the resurrection in the gospels and in Revelation 20.

yeah there isn’t I’m saying your looking at it like it’s different there are two resurrections in John chapter 5

one that “is now “ and another that is the hour “to come “ the one to come is the one in revelation 20 where they are raised up and judged by their works whether good or evil

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. ( first resurrection by faith for believers included in Christ )


Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

and hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.


Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, ( last resurrection white throne judgement ) in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth;

they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24-25, 27-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the resurrection in the end is one all the dead will rise those who have done good will live those who have done evil will be cast into the fire. The first is anyone included in Christ believers of the gospel.

the whole thousand years thing is throwing you off it isn’t literal time measire none of revelations time measurements are literal earthly time.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

AGREE - AGREE - AGREE

So we need to look elsewhere in Scripture to see if the LORD gave us the answer.

And because we know each other, love each other, and I love a Good Challenge = I leave it to you my Brother in Christ to find it.

BLESSING

(always remember that my heart/mind is open for correction as it is a blessing)

yes brother exactly anyone who can show me scriptire I’d be glad to adopt that view you already know that about me.

the thing is I’ve never seen it or heard of it. But surely I’m with you scripture needs to be what forms belief

yes always and forever I love you and everyone else in this thread would like to get to a biblical answer for all
Of us