Is the first resurrection divided into two groups?
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that’s always been our equal bond brother each of us is willingly subject to change our view based on scripture there are others here like that also.
I’m only at this forum to learn from
Things others have noticed on scripture that I’ve missed and have learned a lot on the last year and a half doing that. From running man , oyster, you , Aaron, blick just to name a few bit many others also
It’s a beautiful thing to learn something new and better than what we already knew it just adds to our understanding of Gods word it never ever should offend but tends to sometimes. I’ve come to the point where I like it and realize it’s a strength to be able to accept when we’re wrong which I have been more times than I can count.
But once we learn the right thing , then scripture becomes really cohesive and clear
I’m only at this forum to learn from
Things others have noticed on scripture that I’ve missed and have learned a lot on the last year and a half doing that. From running man , oyster, you , Aaron, blick just to name a few bit many others also
It’s a beautiful thing to learn something new and better than what we already knew it just adds to our understanding of Gods word it never ever should offend but tends to sometimes. I’ve come to the point where I like it and realize it’s a strength to be able to accept when we’re wrong which I have been more times than I can count.
But once we learn the right thing , then scripture becomes really cohesive and clear
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there is no physical resurrection the dust returns to dust as it was when man was created it is the spirit that lives
“Then shall the dust return to the dust as it was:
and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.”
Ecclesiastes 12:7 KJV
The spirit is the life it’s why we’re called to live in the spirit and put the flesh to death, the flesh counts for nothing it’s going to die and never be raised up. It like a temporary tabernacle that we dwell in on earth
“So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: it is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.
There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
And as we have borne the image of the earthy,
we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.”
1 Corinthians 15:42-45, 47, 49 KJV
If you notice in the gospel we’re bekng prepared to live in heaven , and later when the earth is renewed after this world passes away we will inhabit a new incorruptable earth
“Then shall the dust return to the dust as it was:
and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.”
Ecclesiastes 12:7 KJV
The spirit is the life it’s why we’re called to live in the spirit and put the flesh to death, the flesh counts for nothing it’s going to die and never be raised up. It like a temporary tabernacle that we dwell in on earth
“So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: it is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.
There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
And as we have borne the image of the earthy,
we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.”
1 Corinthians 15:42-45, 47, 49 KJV
If you notice in the gospel we’re bekng prepared to live in heaven , and later when the earth is renewed after this world passes away we will inhabit a new incorruptable earth
First - there is no such thing as a two-part resurrection - where part of it occurs at one point in time, and another part at a later time.
A given resurrection occurs at a given time.
Any resurrection that occurs at a later time is another [different] resurrection altogether.
Second -
Revelation 20:
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
The text in this color is an 'aside' - offset by the word 'But'. It is a temporary "jump" away from the thought process of what is before it and after it.
It is not part of the description of the first resurrection.
Third -
Can you see how that 'the rest of the dead' cannot possibly be a part of the first resurrection?
Those mentioned who are part of the first resurrection reign with Christ for 1000 years.
How can anyone who 'lived not again until the thousand years were finished' reign with Christ during that thousand years???
A given resurrection occurs at a given time.
Any resurrection that occurs at a later time is another [different] resurrection altogether.
Second -
Revelation 20:
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
The text in this color is an 'aside' - offset by the word 'But'. It is a temporary "jump" away from the thought process of what is before it and after it.
It is not part of the description of the first resurrection.
Third -
Can you see how that 'the rest of the dead' cannot possibly be a part of the first resurrection?
Those mentioned who are part of the first resurrection reign with Christ for 1000 years.
How can anyone who 'lived not again until the thousand years were finished' reign with Christ during that thousand years???
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You said: "there is no physical resurrection the dust returns to dust as it was when man was created it is the spirit that lives "
Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?
But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen. And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty.
Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up—if in fact the dead do not rise.
For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen.
Your dead shall live;
Together with my dead body they shall arise.
Awake and sing, you who dwell in dust;
For your dew is like the dew of herbs,
And the earth shall cast out the dead.
Isaiah ch26
Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?
But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen. And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty.
Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up—if in fact the dead do not rise.
For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen.
Your dead shall live;
Together with my dead body they shall arise.
Awake and sing, you who dwell in dust;
For your dew is like the dew of herbs,
And the earth shall cast out the dead.
Isaiah ch26
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Is the first resurrection divided into two groups? Yes, saved and unsaved. When Jesus was resurrected, Death was defeated, but still around; eventually, death will be cast into the Lake of Fire, all its power will be lost, even the unsaved will be released.
However, unsaved are resurrected as well with a new body, but clothed with the filthy rag of their own works instead of robe of righteousness washed clean by the blood of the Lamb, and eventually they will be cast into the Lake of Fire as well, which is the "second death". That's not annihilation of their souls, but their resurrected bodies. Logically, without resurrection there just couldn't be a "second death".
However, unsaved are resurrected as well with a new body, but clothed with the filthy rag of their own works instead of robe of righteousness washed clean by the blood of the Lamb, and eventually they will be cast into the Lake of Fire as well, which is the "second death". That's not annihilation of their souls, but their resurrected bodies. Logically, without resurrection there just couldn't be a "second death".
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L
brother imm not saying there’s no resirrection of the dead 🙂
I’m saying the physical body is not what’s raised up. Look at what Paul’s saying here this is just if you keep reading on from where you stopped
“But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
….So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: it is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.
There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; ( genesis 2 )
the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. ( Gods children through Christ )
Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.”
1 Corinthians 15:35, 42-47, 49 KJV
Paul Is explaining that then natural body we have now , is not what’s going to be raised up but our spiritual body is what is raised up.
our flesh body was made from the dust , it’s going to die and return to the dust. It’s like a seed that is planted and dies what is raised up is the spiritual body.
im In no way saying the dead aren’t raised I’m saying it’s not physical , not the dead natiral Man that’s raised up not oir flesh body . Do you see what Paul’s explaining ?
“Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.”
1 Corinthians 15:50
“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
John 6:63 KJV
I hope this clears up what I’m saying the body of flesh is doomed to the first death all Men are appointed to its death it will not rise , the spiritual Body Christ redeems through the gospel will be raised up at the resurrection carefully look at that quote from Paul I left above to see what I’m saying
brother imm not saying there’s no resirrection of the dead 🙂
I’m saying the physical body is not what’s raised up. Look at what Paul’s saying here this is just if you keep reading on from where you stopped
“But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
….So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: it is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.
There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; ( genesis 2 )
the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. ( Gods children through Christ )
Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.”
1 Corinthians 15:35, 42-47, 49 KJV
Paul Is explaining that then natural body we have now , is not what’s going to be raised up but our spiritual body is what is raised up.
our flesh body was made from the dust , it’s going to die and return to the dust. It’s like a seed that is planted and dies what is raised up is the spiritual body.
im In no way saying the dead aren’t raised I’m saying it’s not physical , not the dead natiral Man that’s raised up not oir flesh body . Do you see what Paul’s explaining ?
“Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.”
1 Corinthians 15:50
“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
John 6:63 KJV
I hope this clears up what I’m saying the body of flesh is doomed to the first death all Men are appointed to its death it will not rise , the spiritual Body Christ redeems through the gospel will be raised up at the resurrection carefully look at that quote from Paul I left above to see what I’m saying
Immortality is put on through faith in Christ alone.
Paul declares multiple times that the wages of sin is death—absolute death, cessation of life. Twenty times he tells us that death is the punishment for sin—and also in a dozen places that life and immortality are special privileges, as in Romans 6:23 and 8:11.
Our God is a Consuming Fire
Paul declares multiple times that the wages of sin is death—absolute death, cessation of life. Twenty times he tells us that death is the punishment for sin—and also in a dozen places that life and immortality are special privileges, as in Romans 6:23 and 8:11.
Our God is a Consuming Fire
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Immortality is put on through faith in Christ alone.
Paul declares multiple times that the wages of sin is death—absolute death, cessation of life. Twenty times he tells us that death is the punishment for sin—and also in a dozen places that life and immortality are special privileges, as in Romans 6:23 and 8:11.
Our God is a Consuming Fire
Paul declares multiple times that the wages of sin is death—absolute death, cessation of life. Twenty times he tells us that death is the punishment for sin—and also in a dozen places that life and immortality are special privileges, as in Romans 6:23 and 8:11.
Our God is a Consuming Fire
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Yeah
I think ultimately the choice of life and death is here
“And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die:
but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”
Romans 8:10, 12-13 KJV
that’s very simplified of course but ultimately we have to choose the spirit to follow and let the flesh be dead on the cross and leave behind its servitude to sin
I think ultimately the choice of life and death is here
“And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die:
but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”
Romans 8:10, 12-13 KJV
that’s very simplified of course but ultimately we have to choose the spirit to follow and let the flesh be dead on the cross and leave behind its servitude to sin
That's awesome!!!
Apollumi: Strongs Concordance # 622
Apollumi: Strongs Concordance # 622
not sure if that makes sense lol but I never am sure if what I say makes sense lol So
anyways I appreciate your patience in our prior discussions and glad your like me in that it’s sort of hard to offend you just because one has a different view on a subject. When we start accusing and arguing rather than discussing nothing sinks in
your appreciated sister !!
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First come the physical, and then the Spiritual. The physical is animated with the breath of life.
Genesis 2:7 “And the Lord God formed a man from the dust of the ground, and
breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living soul.”
Ruach is the Hebrew word for spirit, breath, or wind. The same breath animates all flesh.
Then there is the Ruach HaKodesh (the Holy Spirit). Those imbued with Ruach HaKodesh are
illuminated with the truth of life in Christ, being reconciled to God by grace through faith in
the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ, which allows them to escape the 2nd death and attain
to life ever after, through their intimate attachment to the True Vine, Who is life Himself.
Genesis 2:7 “And the Lord God formed a man from the dust of the ground, and
breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living soul.”
Ruach is the Hebrew word for spirit, breath, or wind. The same breath animates all flesh.
Then there is the Ruach HaKodesh (the Holy Spirit). Those imbued with Ruach HaKodesh are
illuminated with the truth of life in Christ, being reconciled to God by grace through faith in
the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ, which allows them to escape the 2nd death and attain
to life ever after, through their intimate attachment to the True Vine, Who is life Himself.
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yeah of course but it’s never as simple as anything really .
what is judged when it parts from the flesh body we dwell in here on earth ?
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
2 Corinthians 5:10
It’s not that man doesn’t have a spirit , it’s that even though we do some still live according to the flesh and. NOt the spirit through Christ whether they reject the gospel or if they accept the gospel and live after the flesh still. We’re all going to face judgement some will do so having an atonement for thier sins.
“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.”
Galatians 5:16, 19-25 KJV
“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”
Romans 8:1 KJV
“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”
Romans 8:13 KJV
“Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: for which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:”
Colossians 3:5-6 KJV
Sort of what I’m saying it’s in almost every epistle and well established first in the gospel
what is judged when it parts from the flesh body we dwell in here on earth ?
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
2 Corinthians 5:10
It’s not that man doesn’t have a spirit , it’s that even though we do some still live according to the flesh and. NOt the spirit through Christ whether they reject the gospel or if they accept the gospel and live after the flesh still. We’re all going to face judgement some will do so having an atonement for thier sins.
“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.”
Galatians 5:16, 19-25 KJV
“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”
Romans 8:1 KJV
“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”
Romans 8:13 KJV
“Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: for which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:”
Colossians 3:5-6 KJV
Sort of what I’m saying it’s in almost every epistle and well established first in the gospel
And he who is not filled with the Holy Spirit is doomed to be filled with some other spirit from the devil. That's the seeds fell on the wayside and snatched by the birds. They were not left there to die alone. Anyone who identify themselves as an atheist is more religious than a lot of cultists. Those "birds" are a code word for the fallen angels. All the records of exorcism in the gospels were for real, Jesus was expelling those evil spirits out of their host. These days the entire western hemisphere is captivated by these evil spirits, that's the only explanation of all the madness on the headlines.
It’s more than his blood sister it’s the word that gives faith and eternal life the blood remits our sins , the spirit gives eternal life
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
John 5:24 KJV
“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
John 6:63 KJV
“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.”
Romans 8:1-2 KJV
We don’t have to be perfect but we do have to hear and begin do follow after the spirit in the word of the gospel
and can’t continue following the flesh and it’s Will it’s contrary to the spirit of life in us through faith
“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.”
Galatians 5:16-18 KJV
of we are led by Christ and his word in the gospel , we can be free of the law of sin and death.
“for this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”
Matthew 26:28
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
John 5:24
the word and blood Make a covenant Christ only expects us to perform that which we have come to grasp though everything by faith as we grow in faith we grow in ability
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
John 5:24 KJV
“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
John 6:63 KJV
“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.”
Romans 8:1-2 KJV
We don’t have to be perfect but we do have to hear and begin do follow after the spirit in the word of the gospel
and can’t continue following the flesh and it’s Will it’s contrary to the spirit of life in us through faith
“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.”
Galatians 5:16-18 KJV
of we are led by Christ and his word in the gospel , we can be free of the law of sin and death.
“for this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”
Matthew 26:28
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
John 5:24
the word and blood Make a covenant Christ only expects us to perform that which we have come to grasp though everything by faith as we grow in faith we grow in ability