Is the GREAT CITY in BABYLON, actually in Babylon, in Rev. 18?

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VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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#41
I suppose just which city that is cannot necessarily be known at this time. There may be several candidates. I believe much will become clearer as we get closer and closer to the fulfillment of certain prophecies.

This is why I say that I am willing to continue learning and I seek discernment. There are many who claim they know for sure what

particular scriptures apply to, I am not comfortable saying that with absolute certainty at this time.

God bless.

Yes, you have a point. UNLESS . . . . . . . . . we are already within seven year mark of FULFILLMENT.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,196
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#42
Corrected.....from Roe to ROME
I call it Senioritous, it happens on the downhill slide to the grave. No cure, and it just gets worse and worse. Welcome to my side of the hill. LOL
 
#43
Yes, you have a point. UNLESS . . . . . . . . . we are already within seven year mark of FULFILLMENT.
Maybe we are. Maybe we’re not. All I can do is keep praying, searching the Scriptures and seeking discernment. Unfortunately, there are just far too many conflicting beliefs about prophecy and the end times.

Regardless, I cling to my hope in Christ.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,196
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#44
The truth is the truth......end of story.......no one will convince me otherwise.....the WOMAN that rides the BEAST SITS above the 7 headed BEAST....SHE IS ABOVE IT and yet TIED to it and a study of the empires to rule over the Middle East will reveal the 7 MOUNTAINS (NOT HILLS) governments that are found in some form or fashion within the U.S. governmental system and symbolically found ALL over our CAPITAL<----THE DISTRICT of COLUMBIA <----SHE (Lady LIBERTAS) can be tied DIRECTLY to the Kingdoms of antiquity that ruled over the area of Israel......
I am sure you know this, but for those who do not know this, Horns, Heads, and Mountains, are symbolism in Biblical Prophecy for Kings, Kingdoms, or Governments. So the Beast with 10 Horns, can also be the same as the 7 headed Beast, remember 3 of the horns will be torn up by their roots. WE HAVE SEEN A COUNTRY IN MOST OF OUR LIFE TIME, that was REALLY torn up by it's roots. Can you Guess which Country? ............................................................................................................................ East Germany was Torn Up by their roots. So most likely, a 10 Nation Confederacy, will have three of the countries Merge, to have more Voting Power in the Confederacy. Yes, I think the E.U. is the most likely candidate, when it dwindles down to 10 Nations.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#45
A. Did not say my way was the only way
b. The city John sees is a MYSTERY..ROME was not a mystery
c. NONE of the characteristics fit ROME
d. 1st BEAST (12th IMAM) and 2nd Beast "POPE-FALSE PROPHET" will be united
e. Destruction of BABYLON is what will allow the RISE of "d" <---I agree that U.S. will not be around
f. You think I just whipped this out of the air? 32 YEARS of study has led me to this conclusion.....and the facts.

And your first line is way out of character and or very judgmental.....should I mouth and say sorry I forgot you know all things and are all that a bag of understanding? ;) HAH

end of story is that ROME does not fit.....a MYSTERY CITY not yet in existence when John sees his vision does....
A, you said and i quote, “ the truth is the truth, end of story, no one will convince me otherwise” now if this is not saying you way is the only way according to you....

B. The city john sees is a mystery, as in it was not yet in existance.

C. Rome is the final gentile kingdom, (feet of iron and clay, the final form of the 4th beast in dan 7 who will speak pompus words against the most hi, the prince who is to come in dan 9 who will commit the abomination of desolation and was spoken of by jesus as being the one, and the beast of revelations, which takes over the world).

Rome is not babylon, i never said she was.

D. As shown in point C, the beast is rome, period, i will admit, the false prophet MAY be the pope, considering the power the pope has in europe, this would not suprise me either, which is what i meant when I said no one knows, and to say we do is quite arrogant of us, granted, some things we can prove wrong (amill for example)

E. The beast will have power already, before he enters the temple and declairs himself to be god, thats why he has to destroy, babylon, because they wouod be the only entity powerful enough to stop him (and again, no not US. If europe combines to form a 10 nation entity, its military will be far greater than the US based on numbers, money and territory. Do a study, it would instantly become a super power that rivals only china in numbers.

F. And dude, i have studied this for over 30 years myself so please, that does not prove anything, in fact, I grew up baptist, so guess what i had pounded in my head for 15 years, and spent the next ten years fighting as you are now?

“The United States or the US government forms babylon the great”


As for my first line, i basically repeated your first line, except i did not say no one will convince me otherwise like you did. is it judgmental on my part and not yours?

To your last sentance, end of story, i never said rome was babylon so not sure what your teying to say. So the story has not ended like you claim :p

Semper fi bro!



 
Mar 14, 2011
74,507
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#46
I am sure you know this, but for those who do not know this, Horns, Heads, and Mountains, are symbolism in Biblical Prophecy for Kings, Kingdoms, or Governments. So the Beast with 10 Horns, can also be the same as the 7 headed Beast, remember 3 of the horns will be torn up by their roots. WE HAVE SEEN A COUNTRY IN MOST OF OUR LIFE TIME, that was REALLY torn up by it's roots. Can you Guess which Country? ............................................................................................................................ East Germany was Torn Up by their roots. So most likely, a 10 Nation Confederacy, will have three of the countries Merge, to have more Voting Power in the Confederacy. Yes, I think the E.U. is the most likely candidate, when it dwindles down to 10 Nations.
Remember, we have the 10 horns, then one rises and conquers three of the leaders, and the others will give him power and authority, whch is why this final beast is more powerful that the first rome, yet splintered, because beast only has power the rest of the nations give it, (ie, toes of iron and clay)

And i agree, the EU ot some itteration of it is where this will take place,
 

jameen

Senior Member
Feb 5, 2018
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Manila
#47
Even Catholic Apologetic says that Babylon in Revelation is the Imperial Rome and the Beast in Revelation 13 is Emperor Nero.
 

jameen

Senior Member
Feb 5, 2018
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Manila
#48
Even Catholic Apologetic says that Babylon in Revelation is the Imperial Rome and the Beast in Revelation 13 is Emperor Nero.
 
Mar 14, 2011
74,507
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#49
Even Catholic Apologetic says that Babylon in Revelation is the Imperial Rome and the Beast in Revelation 13 is Emperor Nero.
that would put the tribulation in 70 AD. and since Christ has not returned yet. That would be impossible. Because christ was supposed to return and kill the Beast himself.
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
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Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#50
It is all going to come down just as prove-all has posted in post #37. But before that happens we are going to see Jacob's trouble. (see Jer. 30:7). USA and Britain are going to go down first and create a power vacuum. Then Germany will come to power. :cool:
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#51
I am sure you know this, but for those who do not know this, Horns, Heads, and Mountains, are symbolism in Biblical Prophecy for Kings, Kingdoms, or Governments. So the Beast with 10 Horns, can also be the same as the 7 headed Beast, remember 3 of the horns will be torn up by their roots. WE HAVE SEEN A COUNTRY IN MOST OF OUR LIFE TIME, that was REALLY torn up by it's roots. Can you Guess which Country? ............................................................................................................................ East Germany was Torn Up by their roots. So most likely, a 10 Nation Confederacy, will have three of the countries Merge, to have more Voting Power in the Confederacy. Yes, I think the E.U. is the most likely candidate, when it dwindles down to 10 Nations.
Obviously.....and the little horn/beast subdues 3 of the 10 to himself = the 8th and FINAL Kingdom of the Beast <--a.k.a. Anti-Christ so called....it is Islamic in nature and the 2nd Beast is the false prophet <--POPE of a reunified Roman Catholic/Greek Orthodox religion....
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
2,801
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#52
The 4th beast in Daniel 7, the Roman Empire, does not lose their dominion until God puts them down.

They will branch to out to be 10 horns, which is the world split in to 10 sections with a leader in each section, which they will devour the whole world, tread it down, and break it in pieces.

The 10 horns hand their power over to the beast and that is how he gets control of the world, which he has power over all nations, kindreds, and tongues.

Although the dominion is the Roman Empire it is all nations governments together trying to establish peace on earth.

God said He is going to gather all nations together to go against Jerusalem, and when the nations come together and say Peace and safety, the saints will not be deceived by their agenda to establish peace on earth for they know it is not of God, and the 7 years period will begin.

Islam, smislam, for Islam will have no dominion, and will fall before the beast kingdom comes about, for Islam will do nothing.

The Bible says Babylon, Iraq, Persia, Iran, will never have physical dominion again, and Islam will have no power during the 7 years period, but they will fall, and great will be the fall of them.

When the nations come together to try to establish peace on earth it will include all Gentile governments together, and the 7 years period will begin.

The world will be split in to ten sections with a leader in each section, and during the first three and one half years a war will spark between Islam and the world, because the unified religious system is about evolution, and people can still evolve, and are waiting for the New Age Christ to appear to cause them to evolve to be greater, and a hate crime to try to teach anything contrary to that punishable in the international criminal court system, and will be the time that they will not endure the truth of the Bible, but according to their own lusts, power through nature.

The 6th trumpet describes nuclear weapons, and an army of men that the religion of Islam could muster up, and 3 sections of the world are plucked up by the roots, the Arab nations, which is such a terrible war to where one third of the population dies mostly in the Arab nations, and Islam, that the world is without hope for there to be peace on earth.

Which they turn to the New Age Christ as the solution to have peace on earth, and the deadly wound was healed, and he gave the world hope for there to be peace on earth, and will convince them that he obtained power through nature and evolved, and they say who is like unto the beast, who is able to make war with him, believing he can establish his kingdom, and no foe can stop him, for how can flesh contend with the force of nature.

The religion of Islam will fall and be devastated before the beast kingdom, and the world follows the beast.

The beast has 10 horns the physical dominion of the beast kingdom, and the 10 horns comes from the 4th beast in Daniel 7 which is the Roman Empire, and the man of sin, New Age Christ, comes from the ten horns.

Which the Roman Empire will include all Caucasian led nations, and any nation taken over by a Caucasian nation, and will be the power base of the beast, and will cause all nations to come together, which we see who has the most power of the different ethnic groups in modern day weapons, and power.

So Islam will have no dominion, or power, but will fall before the beast kingdom comes about.

Also the beast kingdom is of the occult, nature worship, witchcraft, evolution through nature, and people can still evolve, and does not acknowledge a personal God, but honors the God of forces, or the power of nature as their higher power.

So if it is Islamic in nature then the religion of Islam altogether made a radical change to abandon Allah, and not acknowledge any god, and believe in evolution, and they can still evolve, which I do not see that happening, and it won't happen.

And that is the reason Islam clashes with the world during the first three and one half years, because Islam believes in a personal God, and the world is going by evolution.

Also the Pope is the spiritual leader of all the religions interpreted by evolution as religion, and at the beast kingdom will not support Islam, but support evolution as religion.

And the only reason the Pope would try to get along with Islam in recent times including some Popes before this Pope is because they want all the religions to come together, as well as all Christian denominations, not because they support Islam in their beliefs, except maybe a few things, like their acknowledging Abraham, which they will do so they can bring them together with the rest of the religions, but they do not want Islam to have any power that is for sure, for they want the new age movement to shine which is contrary to Islam.

Islam will do nothing but fall during the first three and one half years, and have no power at all, and Islam will have no influence in the beast kingdom, which is about evolution, and no personal God.

Islam, smislam.

The Roman Empire has the dominion, for the ten horns is the physical dominion of the beast kingdom, which is of the Roman Empire.

The 7 heads of the beast are Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, the Roman Empire, the ten horn kingdom the world split in to ten sections with a leader in each section.

The beast receives a deadly wound in one of his heads, which is the 7th head the ten horn kingdom that failed to establish peace during the first three and one half years, so the world turns to the 8th king the antichrist, New Age Christ, as the solution to establish peace on earth.

Some people look to Islam as being some kind of influence, or power, in the future, but it is not true,. for during the first three and one half years, Islam has no influence, or power, for the world is going by the unified religious system based on evolution, and hindering Islam from extending their religion, or preaching it to others, and that is why they rebel against the world.

And I repeat no influence, or power, during the first three and one half years.

Islam will fall before the beast kingdom comes about, so Islam has no influence, or power, in the beast kingdom, during the last three and one half years.

And I repeat no influence, or power, during the last three and one half years.

Islam has no influence, or power, during the 7 years period.

Wait, a special news bulletin just came in, and it reads, Islam will have no influence, or power, during the 7 years period, and nothing in the beast kingdom.

It is the new age movement that is the future for this sinful world, that is contrary to Islamic beliefs, and the new age movement will pave the way to the beast kingdom, and the antichrist and the false prophet of the new age beliefs, which is contrary to Islam, and the new age movement appears to be mostly a Caucasian led belief system by the people of the occult.

The New Age Movement began with a member of the Theosophical Society named Alice Bailey. She was an Englishwoman who emigrated to America and who lived from 1880 to 1949. She laid the real foundations of the New Age Movement and is regarded as its high priestess, although she liked the teachings of Madam Blavatsky who believed Satan was both God and the devil, and looked at the Bible from an occult viewpoint, but Alice Bailey took it farther, and wrote many books about the coming one world government, religious system, and the New Age Christ, which she believes Lucifer brought the principle of mind to the then animal-man years ago, and will help them to evolve to be greater in the future.

Islam and the beast kingdom do not share the same beliefs, but the Roman Empire does to those as part of the occult plan to produce the New Age Christ to cause them to evolve and be greater, which they will convince the world to come together to try to establish peace on earth, and we know who is the biggest player in that game.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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#53
I believe we should take Scripture in its plain literal sense, which means Babylon in Iraq will somehow fit the description given in revelation.
NO DEEP WATER SEAPORT, in Iraq. And the City of BABYLON is OUT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DESERT south of Baghdad.



Only smaller Navy vessels can get into Umm Qasr harbor, to shallow, and it is in a about a mile the mouth of the River.






Not much of a Harbor. Do you really this could be the SEAPORT, that made all the KINGS RICH in Rev. 18.



Revelation 18:3 (HCSB)
3 For all the nations have drunk the wine of her sexual immorality, which brings wrath. The kings of the earth have committed sexual immorality with her, and the merchants of the earth have grown wealthy from her excessive luxury.

Revelation 18:17-19 (HCSB)
17 for in a single hour such fabulous wealth was destroyed! And every shipmaster, seafarer, the sailors, and all who do business by sea, stood far off
18 as they watched the smoke from her burning and kept crying out: “Who is like the great city?”
19 They threw dust on their heads and kept crying out, weeping, and mourning: Woe, woe, the great city, where all those who have ships on the sea became rich from her wealth, for in a single hour she was destroyed.


NOW DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT IS THE HARBOR?
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,196
4,159
113
#54
Maybe we are. Maybe we’re not. All I can do is keep praying, searching the Scriptures and seeking discernment. Unfortunately, there are just far too many conflicting beliefs about prophecy and the end times.

Regardless, I cling to my hope in Christ.
Oh that goes for Me TOO. Do you know that when the events of Rev. 18 takes place, we will long before that be called to go to the Wedding of the Lamb in Heaven?
 
#55
Oh that goes for Me TOO. Do you know that when the events of Rev. 18 takes place, we will long before that be called to go to the Wedding of the Lamb in Heaven?
I do know that we are not appointed to wrath, absolutely. I also know that when precisely the “rapture” will take place is another highly debated and often disagreed on topic.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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#56
That Rev 13:2 describes the beast with the 10 horns and 7 heads rising out of the sea as leopard (which does not change its spots?) with the mouth of a lion (France) and the feet of a bear (Russia) while Rev 18:8 speaks to the kings of the earth who, "lived in luxury with her"has me leaning strongly toward Luxembourg (luxurious city), which is a founding member and the seat of the EU (emerging in, what, 1945 or 1948?, from the seat of the 3rd Reich).

Looking at it in an expanded map and seeing that Rev 1:9 speaks of, "the seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits..." only strengthens my inkling toward that Great City to being Luxembourg (City).
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
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#57
Is the GREAT CITY in BABYLON, actually in Babylon, in Rev. 18?
No, it's not.

It's Jerusalem! Rev 11v8, 14v8, 17v18.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,196
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#58
Even Catholic Apologetic says that Babylon in Revelation is the Imperial Rome and the Beast in Revelation 13 is Emperor Nero.
BUT NOT THE GREAT CITY OF BABYLON in Rev. 18. It is a huge Deep Water Seaport, providing Merchandise to Merchants world-wide.

Revelation 18:10-13 (NJB)
10 while they keep at a safe distance through fear of her anguish. They will say: Mourn, mourn for this great city, Babylon, so powerful a city, in one short hour your doom has come upon you.
11 ‘There will be weeping and distress over her among all the traders of the earth when no one is left to buy their cargoes of goods;
12 their stocks of gold and silver, jewels and pearls, linen and purple and silks and scarlet; all the sandalwood, every piece in ivory or fine wood, in bronze or iron or marble;
13 the cinnamon and spices, the myrrh and ointment and incense; wine, oil, flour and corn; their stocks of cattle, sheep, horses and chariots, their slaves and their human cargo.


Chariots could be:

1531412873233.jpeg

Revelation 18:17-19 (NJB)
17 your huge riches are all destroyed within a single hour.' All the captains and seafaring men, sailors and all those who make a living from the sea kept a safe distance,
18 watching the smoke as she burned, and crying out, ‘Has there ever been a city as great as this!'
19 They threw dust on their heads and said, with tears and groans: ‘Mourn, mourn for this great city whose lavish living has made a fortune for every owner of a sea-going ship, ruined within a single hour.


NO DEEP WATER SEAPORT ON THE WEST SIDE OF ROME.



Statue of Liberty was modeled after this statue of ISHTAR, the Babylonian Goddess, known as Queen of Heaven.

 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,196
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#60