Is the Hebrew Roots Movement a cult?

[Grandpa]

Those who would follow Christ are called from out of the darkness and into the light. The way of the jew in the ot is the shadow and the type of the Spirit and the Heavenly.

The shadow and the type, the way of the jew in the ot, is our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ. When we come to Christ the shadow is useless to us. It was a great teacher.

When we come to Christ He gives us the comforter, the Holy Spirit, which continues our teaching and training.

If we refuse Christ and the Holy Spirit and go back to the schoolmaster for our teaching what is that saying? We value the shadow more than the Light?

You see how some Christians may get a little excited when you attempt this bait and switch?

Hebrew Roots is probably a good stepping stone on the way towards Christ. But I would be really concerned about how long you dwelled there. How long did it take the jews to learn from their mistake? Oh yeah, they still haven't learned...

2 Peter 2:2-10
[SUP]2 [/SUP]As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
[SUP]3 [/SUP]If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

You either see this, or you don't. If you don't you are just ignorant and you are following what you believe to be truth. To that all I can say is you need to keep going until you have reached Christ.

If you do see this and still desire to go back to the shadow and bring people with you, Gods people, I would rather you were cut off than trouble those coming to Christ.

You see the awkward dilemma? There is one way. The hebrew way isn't it.

 

[zone]

Zone, I unblocked this one post because my curiosity overtook me. I'll not do that again. I won't answer again either, though I will say first it's hysterical that you accuse me of not staying on topic, when you're gross obsession with demonizing every Jew on this planet as well as anyone that ever speaks of them in a positive way is the only thing you post about. I haven't just seen this, I hear it from other members. I actually felt you were threatening me personally last night. By the way, I keep pepper spray on my night stand. lol. Though my husband keeps a AR15 propped against his side of the bed, so... just saying...

i'm sure there's help for that paranoia problem you have.

please don't pretend you have me on block/ignore.
you don't.
i wish you did though.

threats?

pepper spray and an AR15?

ugh....get plenty of rest. or something.

 

[RickShafer]

Jesus said the truth and moved on. He didn't argue.
He showed them where they were mistaken and moved on.

 

[zone]

I wonder how many people have considered the gentile roots of their faith? I mean after all, faith is what, and only what, it's all about.

gentile roots of faith...hmmmm.
that's an amazing concept.

but...is that allowed?

i would say the root my faith is:

Isaiah 11:1
A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse; from his roots a Branch will bear fruit

Revelation 5:5
Then one of the elders said to me, "Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals."

Revelation 22:16
"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."

amen

 

[Shiloah]

Jesus said the truth and moved on. He didn't argue.
He showed them where they were mistaken and moved on.

That's exactly what I just did. That's why I'm blocking those I don't feel are edifying, let alone godly.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The reason I try to follow the Torah to the best of my ability is to lead a life that is as much of an example of my Savior and the life that He lived, and to walk in practical and physical obedience to the commands that He's set forth for His people to follow.

Wouldn't it make sense to excel in that which enabled Jesus to actually keep torah flawlessly, i.e., faith? That is the ultimate example that we can follow. Just sayin'...

 

[Shiloah]

Wouldn't it make sense to excel in that which enabled Jesus to actually keep torah flawlessly, i.e., faith? That is the ultimate example that we can follow. Just sayin'...

Absolutely it would.

 

[Shiloah]

Those who would follow Christ are called from out of the darkness and into the light. The way of the jew in the ot is the shadow and the type of the Spirit and the Heavenly.

The shadow and the type, the way of the jew in the ot, is our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ. When we come to Christ the shadow is useless to us. It was a great teacher.

When we come to Christ He gives us the comforter, the Holy Spirit, which continues our teaching and training.

If we refuse Christ and the Holy Spirit and go back to the schoolmaster for our teaching what is that saying? We value the shadow more than the Light?

You see how some Christians may get a little excited when you attempt this bait and switch?

Hebrew Roots is probably a good stepping stone on the way towards Christ. But I would be really concerned about how long you dwelled there. How long did it take the jews to learn from their mistake? Oh yeah, they still haven't learned...

2 Peter 2:2-10
[SUP]2 [/SUP]As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
[SUP]3 [/SUP]If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

You either see this, or you don't. If you don't you are just ignorant and you are following what you believe to be truth. To that all I can say is you need to keep going until you have reached Christ.

If you do see this and still desire to go back to the shadow and bring people with you, Gods people, I would rather you were cut off than trouble those coming to Christ.

You see the awkward dilemma? There is one way. The hebrew way isn't it.

Please refer to post #249. Thank you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I was saved in HS and had been a Christian for about 10 years when I started hearing about the Torah and the Hebrew Roots of Christianity. I started keeping the Sabbath and the Biblical Feast Days about 9 years ago. From there, I started eating kosher and working on some of the other Torah-based Instructions.

I've never put my hope of salvation in nothing less than the life, death and resurrection of Jesus/Yeshua. I'm not Jewish and I don't want to be Jewish. The reason I try to follow the Torah to the best of my ability is to lead a life that is as much of an example of my Savior and the life that He lived, and to walk in practical and physical obedience to the commands that He's set forth for His people to follow.

What commands?

He gave some commands and traditions not to make people closer to him, But to show they were separate. Many of them had a symbolic significant only. Why would we. Under a new covenant, want to go back to what was done before? this makes no sense. EVEN if you believe they have nothing to do for salvation.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

gentile roots of faith...hmmmm.
that's an amazing concept.
but...is that allowed?

I think it's allowed:

Therefore (righteousness) is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, Romans 4:16
​

Yes Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith (because he plants it and waters it in our hearts)... however, in the lineage of faith that led from Abraham to Christ (actually from Adam to Christ), Abraham is our ancestor, i.e. father. From one perspective Abraham (a gentile) is the father of faith, but the root of faith actually started outside the gate of the garden in the heart of a gentile.

 

[RickShafer]

Shiloah,
The think is, debates are fine.
But when they turn into personal attacks the focus is lost.
Some can't seem to admit when they are wrong.
It is easy to get into a confrontation, but it is fruitless.
(That's why I stopped answering you about the nature of hell)
Because it is obvious your mind is made up, and after several reasonings nothing was changing.
I'll argue until I run into a made up mind who after all the reasons will revert back to either redefining words, illogic, or personal attacks.
Yours was illogic.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I wonder how many people have considered the gentile roots of their faith? I mean after all, faith is what, and only what, it's all about.

I must remember the hard time paul had with the jews trying to insert their traditions and the torah to the poor gentiles who finally found Christ. Why would paul spend so much time warning against this unless it was dangerous??

If we gentiles want to know how to act. Read the NT. the OT leads us to Christ. and proves he is real. And shows Gods love of how he did it. And gives us examples.. But to return to all that?? WHY?

 

[KohenMatt]

you consider yourself a gentile.
okay.

Depends on the definition of Gentile.
Gentile as in Not of Jewish-Religious Upbringing? Yes.
Gentile as in Pagan, Heathen, without God? No.

Once I was saved, I wasn't alienated from God anymore. So no longer a Gentile in that regard.

what led you think you have Hebrew Roots?

As a believer in Messiah, I'm grafted into God's people or Israel via Romans 11. Therefore the Torah given to Israel forever can now apply to me.

could you explain (just this for now) what you think Hebrew Roots means?
t.y.

For me, Hebrew Roots means taking a look at the New Testament through the context and foundation of the Old Testament. It also means looking at the Torah and in the Old Testament through the lens of the salvation through Yeshua.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Those who would follow Christ are called from out of the darkness and into the light. The way of the jew in the ot is the shadow and the type of the Spirit and the Heavenly.

The shadow and the type, the way of the jew in the ot, is our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ. When we come to Christ the shadow is useless to us. It was a great teacher.

When we come to Christ He gives us the comforter, the Holy Spirit, which continues our teaching and training.

If we refuse Christ and the Holy Spirit and go back to the schoolmaster for our teaching what is that saying? We value the shadow more than the Light?

You see how some Christians may get a little excited when you attempt this bait and switch?

Hebrew Roots is probably a good stepping stone on the way towards Christ. But I would be really concerned about how long you dwelled there. How long did it take the jews to learn from their mistake? Oh yeah, they still haven't learned...

2 Peter 2:2-10
[SUP]2 [/SUP]As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
[SUP]3 [/SUP]If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

You either see this, or you don't. If you don't you are just ignorant and you are following what you believe to be truth. To that all I can say is you need to keep going until you have reached Christ.

If you do see this and still desire to go back to the shadow and bring people with you, Gods people, I would rather you were cut off than trouble those coming to Christ.

You see the awkward dilemma? There is one way. The hebrew way isn't it.

Amen. All of scripture from moses until the last book shows us what follwoing these laws and traditions did for Israel. It never works. and never was taken for what it was intended to be.. I guess the gentile church has not made enough mistakes, but now we want to return to Israel and make their mistakes also?? wow

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think it's allowed:

Therefore (righteousness) is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, Romans 4:16
​

Yes Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith (because he plants it and waters it in our hearts)... however, in the lineage of faith that led from Abraham to Christ (actually from Adam to Christ), Abraham is our ancestor, i.e. father. From one perspective Abraham (a gentile) is the father of faith, but the root of faith actually started outside the gate of the garden in the heart of a gentile.

Amen. Abraham did not have the law. or the commands or traditions. And he had more of a relationship with God than probably 90 % of all hebrews.. And the other ten they probably were equal.. (mostly because they followed the law of faith, and not tradition and other stuff)

Which is what Paul tried to show us..

 

[Shiloah]

The think is, debates are fine.
But when they turn into personal attacks the focus is lost.
Some can't seem to admit when they are wrong.
It is easy to get into a confrontation, but it is fruitless.
(That's why I stopped answering you about the nature of hell)
Because it is obvious your mind is made up, and after several reasonings nothing was changing.
I'll argue until I run into a made up mind who after all the reasons will revert back to either redefining words,
illogic, or personal attacks.
Yours was illogic.

I don't understand. Because I'm convinced of my position (as you are yours); hence, I'm illogical? And I'm making personal because I confront a person attacking me and others continually? Was Jesus attacking the Pharisees when He told them they were a herd of Jackals and their father was Satan? I'm stating what I truly believe at this point based on prayer and study. I'm sure you'll see this as an attack on you as well. I need to back out of this and pray. And again, I need to block people that provoke me to fall into the flesh. For one thing, I shouldn't even be responding to you. For those accusations I believe are entirely invalid, and I see coming repeatedly from the same people, I need to not even reply.

You are confronting me right now. You are telling me I am illogical because I disagree with you logic on hell. I could tell you your logic is totally twisted and limited, and then when you respond, I'll tell you you're being confrontational, making personal attacks, and illogical. That's exactly what you're doing to me.

 

[RedTent]

lol..

The problem with the church is it wants tradition and meaningless repetition. and does not want a relationship with God.

I grew up steeped in the deep religion, the deep repetition, and the deep conviction that doing these things made you holy.

The NT shows these things do not make us holy, nor do they bring us closer to God. God only gave two traditions in the NT. He replaced the feast of unleavened bread with the Lords supper. Remembering our deliverance from the slaver of sin is way more important than remembering the freedom from egypt!, All that did was show How god gave us the savior through jacob.. Thats why we do not remember this anymore. Jews do not have a need to remember either. Freedom from egypt has no bearing on their eternity.

As for the other stuff. We have a biblical history of people doing these ritual and tradition in the right frame of mind, and knowing they did nto save them. Only to cause MANY to turn these things into a salvic issue. Why do we need messiah when he have these ritual and tradition and LAW which makes us holy. WHy do you think they jews rejected Christ as their messiah in the first place? They did not think they needed an eternal savior. they needed a secular savor to free them from their enemies.

Mark my word, this will happen again.

Finally, where do you think these 200 denominations come from? Different was of doing things, Taking tradition, putting your own mix on them, and forming your own group. Thats the issue with tradition and religion. Look how many different types of jewish religions there were in the time of Christ.?

Wasn't it a wonderful moment for you when you found the truth of God, when you discovered it was deeper than the doing. God opens Himself to each of us in such personal ways.

After knowing this, it is just as freeing for others to learn of the blessings of special ways of doing that expresses worship of God. I hope this understanding you have won't turn you from the possibility of doing as a blessing.

Thanks for bringing up that there are many denominations for different people in their different stages of understanding.

I hope that as people who are reading what Christians say about their understanding they will throw out the accusers, or the people who are speaking without any of God so they express hate. That is a clue to everyone to ignore them, Satan is speaking through them. Christians understand differently and disagree often, but Christians can depend on basic support from other Christians.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Depends on the definition of Gentile.
Gentile as in Not of Jewish-Religious Upbringing? Yes.
Gentile as in Pagan, Heathen, without God? No.

There is no more Jew and gentile. Your father is abraham. Not moses..

We are blessed by his seed (christ)

As a believer in Messiah, I'm grafted into God's people or Israel via Romans 11. Therefore the Torah given to Israel forever can now apply to me.

No, You were not grafted Into Israel. Isreal was cut off. And you, A Gentile, was grafted in.

Isreal was the natural branch, you the unnatural. The root is God..

This is the problem with trying to think of this as a isreal gentile thing. Many people are in heaven today who preceded moses. And many are in heaven who lives in the OT times which had no blood relation with Isreal. It has never been an Isreal/Gentile thing. Isreal goofed this up.. (romans 7) why would we want to make the mistake they did?

For me, Hebrew Roots means taking a look at the New Testament through the context and foundation of the Old Testament. It also means looking at the Torah and in the Old Testament through the lens of the salvation through Yeshua.

You have this ok. The OT helps us understand the new better. But the new covenant is what we shoudl follow. The old points to the new.

 

[Shiloah]

What commands?

He gave some commands and traditions not to make people closer to him, But to show they were separate. Many of them had a symbolic significant only. Why would we. Under a new covenant, want to go back to what was done before? this makes no sense. EVEN if you believe they have nothing to do for salvation.

They are merely symbolic, though I'd drop the "merely". That's why they practice them in their services, for the purpose of celebrating them because they were fulfilled by Christ's coming. It's a celebration; it's not about earning anything or doing something that gets you saved or makes you better than anyone else. Repeat: it's celebrating the fulfillment of that ritual.

 

[Shiloah]

Wasn't it a wonderful moment for you when you found the truth of God, when you discovered it was deeper than the doing. God opens Himself to each of us in such personal ways.

After knowing this, it is just as freeing for others to learn of the blessings of special ways of doing that expresses worship of God. I hope this understanding you have won't turn you from the possibility of doing as a blessing.

Thanks for bringing up that there are many denominations for different people in their different stages of understanding.

I hope that as people who are reading what Christians say about their understanding they will throw out the accusers, or the people who are speaking without any of God so they express hate. That is a clue to everyone to ignore them, Satan is speaking through them. Christians understand differently and disagree often, but Christians can depend on basic support from other Christians.

Thank you so much RedTent for making this statement. God bless you.