Is the Hebrew Roots Movement a cult?

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E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I think a very important question, and its one John hints at here, is WHY are trying to follow the physical commands. Are we doing it for the sake of the law and to try and do it as best as we can, or are we doing it because God called us to, and I want to honor Him by doing what He says?
just a note my friend. some people say this ( I do it because I love God) but in reality, they say if you don;t do it God will pull his salvation from you. thus what is the true force behind obeying? because of love, or out of fear 9fear of rejection) which is what the law does to those who are trying to be saved by it (even though they say love)

He also has a habit of saying we love sin, or we would believe as he does, salvation can be lost. which you and I both agree is not true.


I think this echoes my thought. So again, the question is do we follow the law just for the sake of following it, or do we do it because God told us to do so, that there would be a blessing if we did, and that all the while we are trying to learn something much greater than the physical action?

I can say confidently that every single physical command I read and keep in the Torah conveys a much deeper spiritual understanding, and a much greater understanding and love for my God.

Off to work!
Matt
I would say there is a third reason. We do it not because God said so. but we realise WHY god said so. because he wants to keep us from harm. God did not say do not with no reason, he explains the reasons behind his laws. he does not leave us blind, he shows us why. because he loves us;

we love, because he first loved us.
 
Oct 31, 2011
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That's the whole problem; GOD is not interested in your efforts to try to please him. He considers such rebellion and works of law. Cain tried to please GOD with the efforts of his work, and was rejected. Abel, on the other hand, had faith in GOD's mercy and was accepted.
Cain tried to gain atonement without blood, and it is only through blood of Christ can be used. They did not have the fulfilled blood at that time, they only saw the shadow of the resurrection, but it has always been through Christ.

Are you saying then, that God did not see Abraham as he was willing to obey even to sacrificing his son, and God wasn't watching? If we deliberately sin it is OK because our efforts amount to nothing?

We can't make ourselves holy through our efforts, it is only grace that achieves that, but because we have the rewards without the work, do you really think that we shouldn't work? Sort of, well, if you give me salvation anyway why should I walk in your ways? You will give me salvation if I do or if I don't so I won't.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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Yeah you continually misrepresent the issue.

The spirit of the law of Moses (that includes the 10 commandments) is loving one's neighbor as one's self. If one does that he has fulfilled the righteousness required by the letter of the law. You are more devoted to the 10 commandments than you are to the author of those commandments. You're simply trying to establish your own righteousness through your own efforts.
So, we just brush aside the fact that "love thy neighbor" is the summation of...

Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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I think a very important question, and its one John hints at here, is WHY are trying to follow the physical commands. Are we doing it for the sake of the law and to try and do it as best as we can, or are we doing it because God called us to, and I want to honor Him by doing what He says?
You are doing it because you don't know any better. You've done the best you can with your own understanding. You've fallen woefully short and now you are stuck, in the pit of your own understanding.

I was in that class with you. But for some reason the Lord caused me to stop looking to myself and look to Him instead.


I think this echoes my thought. So again, the question is do we follow the law just for the sake of following it, or do we do it because God told us to do so, that there would be a blessing if we did, and that all the while we are trying to learn something much greater than the physical action?

I can say confidently that every single physical command I read and keep in the Torah conveys a much deeper spiritual understanding, and a much greater understanding and love for my God.

Off to work!
Matt
You don't keep Torah. You have never kept Torah. Torah wasn't designed for you to make yourself pleasing to God.

Torah was designed to show you that you aren't God.

Or maybe that's just for Christians...

Maybe in Judaism and Judaism lite the goal is to keep as much of the law as you can and hope God will be gracious to you for the rest.

This is my one question for the lawyers here who profess Christ as their savior. Can you just accept half of Gods Grace and continue in the yoke of bondage at the same time thinking that whatever bases you don't have covered Grace will cover for you?

I'm really trying to understand how someone could experience the Power of salvation and then go back to the misery of defeat. The only thing I can think of is it must have something to do with the Slavery mentality, the Prison mentality. If you've been in Prison your whole life youre used to it. Its comfortable, its what you know. When people tell you that you don't have to be in there anymore it doesn't make any sense. Why would you want to leave the prison where you are comfortable and go outside where all the rules are different and you have to rely on someone other than yourself? Well you wouldn't leave what you are comfortable with unless you were caused to.

If someone showed you the prison you are in, showed you that you couldn't get out by yourself and then broke you free from that prison, that would be something. That would be worth telling other prisoners about.

But some of the prisoners like it there and they argue that we aren't supposed to leave prison. God made the prison so we must always stay in it, they say. You are wrong, they say, come back to prison with us...

God made that prison for transgressors. Those that wouldn't accept His Grace and Mercy and live in Him. Not everyone knows that.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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Are you saying then.......If we deliberately sin it is OK because our efforts amount to nothing?
and so it always comes down to this.
the charge of antinomianism.

amazing.

RedTent, do you believe the New Testament contains enough instruction about sin?

do you believe Paul cheated in some way or that the Christian Church has misinterpreted the gospel he received from Jesus?

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.

do you believe that when the power of God in the Gospel brings salvation to people who believe it, the Holy Spirit Who seals them is able to work effectually and completely to deliver that son to God?

do you believe the Holy Spirit conforms and teaches the saved by grace through faith according to all the words of God int eh whole of the Word?

do you believe Jesus through Paul that by the works of the Law no one will be justified in God's sight?

and finally....do you claim to be without sin?
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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amen, This is called trusting in God. even when you have to break literal rules. God will always make a way.
Let me know when that involves the sixth Commandment. I want to be far away when you decide to break that one. I also want to take my wife far away when you decide it you must break the seventh one for your convenience. In fact, maybe I better double up on the locks on my house in case you decide it is necessary to break the literal rule known as "Thou shalt not steal."
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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really?
what are the terms and conditions of the New Covenant?
eb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

The direct quote of...

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

The word for Law in verse 33 is...

H8451
תּרה תּורה
tôrâh tôrâh
to-raw', to-raw'
From H3384; a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch: - law.

Or you could have read my previous post. This is just a C&P, but the terms and conditions are the Torah.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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You are doing it because you don't know any better. You've done the best you can with your own understanding. You've fallen woefully short and now you are stuck, in the pit of your own understanding.

I was in that class with you. But for some reason the Lord caused me to stop looking to myself and look to Him instead.




You don't keep Torah. You have never kept Torah. Torah wasn't designed for you to make yourself pleasing to God.

Torah was designed to show you that you aren't God.

Or maybe that's just for Christians...

Maybe in Judaism and Judaism lite the goal is to keep as much of the law as you can and hope God will be gracious to you for the rest.

This is my one question for the lawyers here who profess Christ as their savior. Can you just accept half of Gods Grace and continue in the yoke of bondage at the same time thinking that whatever bases you don't have covered Grace will cover for you?

I'm really trying to understand how someone could experience the Power of salvation and then go back to the misery of defeat. The only thing I can think of is it must have something to do with the Slavery mentality, the Prison mentality. If you've been in Prison your whole life youre used to it. Its comfortable, its what you know. When people tell you that you don't have to be in there anymore it doesn't make any sense. Why would you want to leave the prison where you are comfortable and go outside where all the rules are different and you have to rely on someone other than yourself? Well you wouldn't leave what you are comfortable with unless you were caused to.

If someone showed you the prison you are in, showed you that you couldn't get out by yourself and then broke you free from that prison, that would be something. That would be worth telling other prisoners about.

But some of the prisoners like it there and they argue that we aren't supposed to leave prison. God made the prison so we must always stay in it, they say. You are wrong, they say, come back to prison with us...

God made that prison for transgressors. Those that wouldn't accept His Grace and Mercy and live in Him. Not everyone knows that.
Galatians 4
Sons and Heirs
1I mean that the heir, as long as he is a child, is no different from a slave,a though he is the owner of everything, 2but he is under guardians and managers until the date set by his father. 3In the same way we also, when we were children, were enslaved to the elementary principlesb of the world. 4But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law, 5to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons. 6And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” 7So you are no longer a slave, but a son, and if a son, then an heir through God.

Paul’s Concern for the Galatians
8Formerly, when you did not know God, you were enslaved to those that by nature are not gods. 9But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles of the world, whose slaves you want to be once more? 10You observe days and months and seasons and years! 11I am afraid I may have labored over you in vain.

12Brothers,c I entreat you, become as I am, for I also have become as you are. You did me no wrong. 13You know it was because of a bodily ailment that I preached the gospel to you at first, 14and though my condition was a trial to you, you did not scorn or despise me, but received me as an angel of God, as Christ Jesus. 15What then has become of the blessing you felt? For I testify to you that, if possible, you would have gouged out your eyes and given them to me. 16Have I then become your enemy by telling you the truth?d 17They make much of you, but for no good purpose. They want to shut you out, that you may make much of them. 18It is always good to be made much of for a good purpose, and not only when I am present with you, 19my little children, for whom I am again in the anguish of childbirth until Christ is formed in you! 20I wish I could be present with you now and change my tone, for I am perplexed about you.

Example of Hagar and Sarah
21Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not listen to the law? 22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman. 23But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise. 24Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. 25Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia;e she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. 27For it is written,

“Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear;
break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor!
For the children of the desolate one will be more
than those of the one who has a husband.”

28Now you,f brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now. 30But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.” 31So, brothers, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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i don't know what your post is saying here: "This post reveals a lot"

you read Romans and Galatians and all of the New testament and get back to me when you find a single commandment to observe the Old Covenant (which no longer exists) Sabbath.

k...thanks.
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

What is the word for rest here?

Sabbatismos.

Here is the Diaglott...

Heb 4:9 Therefore remains a keeping of a sabbath for the people of the God.

Now show me a command to keep Sunday.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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but the terms and conditions are the Torah.
the terms and conditions of the New Covenant are Torah (Moses)?
the terms and conditions of the New Covenant are The Old Covenant?

Galatians 3
By Faith, or by Works of the Law?
1O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. 2Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? 3Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected bya the flesh? 4Did you sufferb so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? 5Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith— 6just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”?

7Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. 8And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justifyc the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” 9So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

The Righteous Shall Live by Faith
10For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” 11Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.”d 12But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.” 13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”— 14so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirite through faith.

The Law and the Promise
15To give a human example, brothers:f even with a man-made covenant, no one annuls it or adds to it once it has been ratified. 16Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ. 17This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. 18For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.

19Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary. 20Now an intermediary implies more than one, but God is one.

21Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law. 22But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

23Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. 24So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. 25But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, 26for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. 27For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slaveg nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise.

............

Ephesians 2
Made Alive in Christ

1As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesha and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. 4But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Jew and Gentile Reconciled Through Christ

11Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)— 12remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

14For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.

19Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, 20built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. 21In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. 22And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

What is the word for rest here?

Sabbatismos.

Here is the Diaglott...

Heb 4:9 Therefore remains a keeping of a sabbath for the people of the God.

Now show me a command to keep Sunday.
a command?
why don't you believe in Christian liberty?

can you try to remember this please:

Colossians 2
13When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made youd alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you. Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind. 19They have lost connection with the head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.

20Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules: 21“Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? 22These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings. 23Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.
 
Oct 31, 2011
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the terms and conditions of the New Covenant are Torah (Moses)?
the terms and conditions of the New Covenant are The Old Covenant?

Galatians 3
By Faith, or by Works of the Law?
1O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. 2Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? 3Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected bya the flesh? 4Did you sufferb so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? 5Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith— 6just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”?

7Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. 8And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justifyc the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” 9So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

The Righteous Shall Live by Faith
10For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” 11Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.”d 12But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.” 13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”— 14so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirite through faith.

The Law and the Promise
15To give a human example, brothers:f even with a man-made covenant, no one annuls it or adds to it once it has been ratified. 16Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ. 17This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. 18For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.

19Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary. 20Now an intermediary implies more than one, but God is one.

21Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law. 22But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

23Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. 24So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. 25But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, 26for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. 27For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slaveg nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise.

............

Ephesians 2
Made Alive in Christ

1As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesha and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. 4But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Jew and Gentile Reconciled Through Christ

11Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)— 12remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

14For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.

19Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, 20built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. 21In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. 22And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.
This is a matter of reading scripture without knowing God. God would never promote sin, or not learning anything about what He considers sin. And God is telling these people they are doing something wrong, so to find out you need to go to history to find out what they were doing.

You find that they were saying that they have to be Jews to be saved. Circumcision, all the food laws, the entire bit, and that was what was necessary before they could be. The people Paul was writing to understood this perfectly. It seemed reasonable to the Jews who were teaching them that, for thousands of years it is how gentiles became worshipers of the true God. When Paul reports that God says that is not the case and explains how and why, our 2013 minds grab on to it saying whoopee! those ten commandments were a pain, anyway and away we go away from God.

If you will get to know your Savior and Lord, what His characteristics are, you would have faith and trust in Him and know that God isn't going to say in one breath that the law is good and in another to toss the entire thing out on its ear.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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When Paul reports that God says that is not the case and explains how and why, our 2013 minds grab on to it saying whoopee! those ten commandments were a pain, anyway and away we go away from God.
oh please.
yes, as soon as i got saved i ran out and cursed God and murdered and started hating my parents and the whole lot.
in fact, before i was saved i kept the commandments BETTER THAN when i found out "When Paul reports that God says that is not the case and explains how and why" [we are not justified by the LAW]...once i found out we are saved by faith and not by works of the Law (sabbath-keeping)....i just reveled in sin:rolleyes:

WHOOPIE!

redtent you're just not convincing at all.

there's a noticable lack of the mention of Jesus Christ in your posts.

Judaism is not a solution to the false gospels and false christs taught in 'evangelicalism' or whatever your issues are.

all the myths you promote about Christianity and paganism etc have been debunked.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
this Covenant no longer exists.
it was not made with you.
amen. the feast of unleavened bread was replace by the lords supper. We remember the cross where our sins are passed over as we are freed from slaver. Not the passover, where israel was free from Egypt (the symbol)
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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The Hebrew Roots Movement is directly tied to the ERROR of dispensationalism.

(God is about to turn back to Plan A...get onboard)

anyone who hasn't noticed this yet has issues...for sure.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
What is the word for rest here?
Sabbatismos.
Here is the Diaglott...
Heb 4:9 Therefore remains a keeping of a sabbath for the people of the God.
Now show me a command to keep Sunday.
That word sabbatismos that is translated keeping of a sabbath could refer to a weekly sabbath, a 7-year land sabbath, or a festival sabbath depending on the context.

The context of Hebrews 4 is not a weekly sabbath, nor a 7-year land sabbath, but the sabbath rest of the promised land, Israel, which many could not enter into because of unbelief. That example serves as a shadow of the reality of the keeping of the sabbath of the fulfilled day of atonement (a festival sabbath) when those who do believe enter into GOD's final and permanent rest.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Let me know when that involves the sixth Commandment. I want to be far away when you decide to break that one. I also want to take my wife far away when you decide it you must break the seventh one for your convenience. In fact, maybe I better double up on the locks on my house in case you decide it is necessary to break the literal rule known as "Thou shalt not steal."
I was going to say something, But figured I would wait.

Does anyone else see the hypocracy here? A man admitted he broke the sabbath, But God blessed him. And yet mr johny boy here did not say a word.

Yet he condemns me???

Does any of his friends wish to call him out on this hypocracy??

 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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the terms and conditions of the New Covenant are Torah (Moses)?
the terms and conditions of the New Covenant are The Old Covenant?
Can't read? Third and final time...


Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.


Quoting from Jer 31:31-34...

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

where the word for Law is...

H8451
תּרה תּורה
tôrâh tôrâh
to-raw', to-raw'
From H3384; a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch: - law.

The problem is the passage in Hebrews that says directly that the New Covenant is the writing of the Law in our hearts and minds. This is not what you WANTED it to be.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
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I was going to say something, But figured I would wait.

Does anyone else see the hypocracy here? A man admitted he broke the sabbath, But God blessed him. And yet mr johny boy here did not say a word.

Yet he condemns me???

Does any of his friends wish to call him out on this hypocracy??

Uh excuse me, I see a man who admitted he broke the Sabbath, then was able to repent and QUIT breaking the Sabbath, whereas you encourage people to break the Sabbath.

Hmmm, and where is the hypocracy?