Is the Hebrew Roots Movement a cult?

[Larry_Stotle]

Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against Yahweh, and will wear out the saints of Yahweh, and think to change times and Laws..."

Luke 24:25, "Then He said to them: O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken!"

What are you trying to say here?

You getting worn out - I'm just getting started...

 

[danschance]

Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against Yahweh, and will wear out the saints of Yahweh, and think to change times and Laws..."

Luke 24:25, "Then He said to them: O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken!"

Hiz, All foods are clean, yes, Jesus said that and if it was not clear enough, God gave Peter a clear vision with unclean animals and told him to "kill and eat". So yes, God Himself has declared this. The council at Jerusalem told gentiles to not eat strangled animals. Even this was wrong as it did not come from the Lord. They were still trying to be partial Jews. We can eat any food before us, not matter what it might be.

 

[Hizikyah]

What are you trying to say here?

You getting worn out - I'm just getting started...

lol, cheezin.

 

[Hizikyah]

facepalm

The first thing you will notice is the words, "In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean," are completely absent. Before moving on, I want to ask, why did someone feel the need to forge words into the text that are not there. Is it ok to just add words wherever I want? Of course not.

19 Because it does not enter into his heart but his stomach, and then into the toilet (856) as all food is cleansed out (2511)?

19 For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)

856 - aphedrón
aphedrón: a place of sitting apart, i.e. a privy, drain
Original Word: ἀφεδρών, ῶνος, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: aphedrón
Phonetic Spelling: (af-ed-rone')
Short Definition: a drain, latrine
Definition: a drain, latrine
Word Origin - from apo and hedraios
Definition - a place of sitting apart, i.e. a privy, drain

2511 - katharizó
katharizó: to cleanse
Original Word: καθαρίζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: katharizó
Phonetic Spelling: (kath-ar-id'-zo)
Short Definition: I make clean
Definition: I cleanse, make clean, literally, ceremonially, or spiritually, according to context.
Word Origin - from katharos
Definition - to cleanse

20 Then He said: That which comes out of the man, that defiles the man;

21 For from within--out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,

22 Thefts, lust, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, and foolishness--

23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man."

No this is not about pork, it is about the pharisee making a show they are holy with their appearances, but Messiah is saying evil is that which should be guarded against.

This exact same account is also detailed in Mattithyah 15, and this is also shown there:

Mattithyah 15:2-3, "Why do Your disciples transgress the traditions of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat. But He answered, and said to them: And why do you transgress the Laws of Yahweh by your traditions?"

Mattithyah 15:17, "Do you not yet understand that whatever enters in at the mouth goes into the stomach, and then is cast out in elimination?"

But is we keep readin we see the meaning of the PARABLE:

Mark 7:17, " But when He had left the people and entered the house, His disciples asked Him about the parable."

Mattithyah 15:15, "But Kepha spoke, and said to Him; Explain this parable to us."

Kepha is Peter, so if all foods were cleansed why did Kepha years later still not eat unclean food?

Acts 10:14, "But Kepha said; By no means, Ruler, for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean."

Because Mark 7 & and Matt 15 were not about food but a pharisee hand washing ritual as the parable is explained here:

Mattithyah 15:20, "These are the things which defile a man--but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man."

As Acts 10 was not about food either:

Acts 10:28, "And he said to them; You yourselves are aware how it is not Lawful for a Yahdai to associate with one of another nation, or to enter his house; but Yahweh has shown me that I must not call any man common or unclean."

So in Mattithyah the parable is fully explained, yet in Mark it is not, is it possibe that is why those false words were added to Mark 7:19? If they were added to Mattithyah 15, it would have been a contradiction, but Mark having not being fully explained, it left the door open?

Kepha's vision was about meeting with Cornelius. We have been over this more than once..........

IT IS EXPLAINED:

Acts 10:28, "And he said to them; You yourselves are aware how it is not Lawful for a Yahdai to associate with one of another nation, or to enter his house; but Yahweh has shown me that I must not call any man common or unclean."

This does help me to understand why you have the doctrine you do.

 

[danschance]

Kepha's vision was about meeting with Cornelius. We have been over this more than once..........

IT IS EXPLAINED:

Acts 10:28, "And he said to them; You yourselves are aware how it is not Lawful for a Yahdai to associate with one of another nation, or to enter his house; but Yahweh has shown me that I must not call any man common or unclean."

This does help me to understand why you have the doctrine you do.

That is your twisted view on a vision clearly about eating not visiting.

 

[Hizikyah]

That is your twisted view on a vision clearly about eating not visiting.

We disagree on much, and I dont mean this to be offensive, but im really messed up here. Are you feeling ok?

Im speechless. I dont even know what to say...

New International Version
He said to them: "You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with or visit a Gentile. But God has shown me that I should not call anyone impure or unclean.

New Living Translation
Peter told them, "You know it is against our laws for a Jewish man to enter a Gentile home like this or to associate with you. But God has shown me that I should no longer think of anyone as impure or unclean.

English Standard Version
And he said to them, “You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or to visit anyone of another nation, but God has shown me that I should not call any person common or unclean.

New American Standard Bible
And he said to them, "You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a man who is a Jew to associate with a foreigner or to visit him; and yet God has shown me that I should not call any man unholy or unclean.

King James Bible
And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Peter said to them, "You know it's forbidden for a Jewish man to associate with or visit a foreigner. But God has shown me that I must not call any person common or unclean.

International Standard Version
He told them, "You understand how wrong it is for a Jew to associate or visit with unbelievers. But God has shown me that I should stop calling anyone common or unclean,

NET Bible
He said to them, "You know that it is unlawful for a Jew to associate with or visit a Gentile, yet God has shown me that I should call no person defiled or ritually unclean.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And he said to them, “You know that a man who is of the Jews is not allowed to join a foreign person, who is not one of his race. God has shown me that I should not say that a man is unclean or defiled.”

GOD'S WORD® Translation
He said to them, "You understand how wrong it is for a Jewish man to associate or visit with anyone of another race. But God has shown me that I should no longer call anyone impure or unclean.

Jubilee Bible 2000
And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an abominable thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company or come unto one of another nation; but God has showed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

King James 2000 Bible
And he said unto them, You know that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God has showed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

American King James Version
And he said to them, You know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come to one of another nation; but God has showed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

American Standard Version
and he said unto them, Ye yourselves know how it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to join himself or come unto one of another nation; and yet unto me hath God showed that I should not call any man common or unclean:

Douay-Rheims Bible
And he said to them: You know how abominable it is for a man that is a Jew, to keep company or to come unto one of another nation: but God hath shewed to me, to call no man common or unclean.

Darby Bible Translation
And he said to them, *Ye* know how it is unlawful for a Jew to be joined or come to one of a strange race, and to *me* God has shewn to call no man common or unclean.

English Revised Version
and he said unto them, Ye yourselves know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to join himself or come unto one of another nation; and yet unto me hath God shewed that I should not call any man common or unclean:

Webster's Bible Translation
And he said to them, Ye know that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come to one of another nation; but God hath shown me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

Weymouth New Testament
He said to them, "You know better than most that a Jew is strictly forbidden to associate with a Gentile or visit him; but God has taught me to call no one unholy or unclean.

World English Bible
He said to them, "You yourselves know how it is an unlawful thing for a man who is a Jew to join himself or come to one of another nation, but God has shown me that I shouldn't call any man unholy or unclean.

Young's Literal Translation
And he said unto them, 'Ye know how it is unlawful for a man, a Jew, to keep company with, or to come unto, one of another race, but to me God did shew to call no man common or unclean;

 

[RedTent]

Hiz, All foods are clean, yes, Jesus said that and if it was not clear enough, God gave Peter a clear vision with unclean animals and told him to "kill and eat". So yes, God Himself has declared this. The council at Jerusalem told gentiles to not eat strangled animals. Even this was wrong as it did not come from the Lord. They were still trying to be partial Jews. We can eat any food before us, not matter what it might be.

You read scripture in order to substantiate a view that you have, and not to learn from scripture. You want Paul to not believe in the Torah, even though if he didn't it would mess up lots of other scripture. You want to discredit food laws instead of learning from them, so you read this into scripture telling the apostles to go to the gentiles. You decide to read into the things gentiles were told to do to, as the next verses show, be able to go to synagogue because you decide scripture should not tell gentiles to learn scripture as it was then, it would include Torah. It is not a proper way to read scripture and is used by demons, actually.

So, when God says that everything He created was good, when all foods have a good purpose, you decide scripture is talking about the food laws. There is much said about the food laws, including not using them any more, how that was and why, but everything scripture says about them is not to be wiped out with your one passage of scripture.

 

[RedTent]

That is your twisted view on a vision clearly about eating not visiting.

So it is "your twisted view"!!! When time after time we point out that you are not understanding the meaning of a scripture by showing you scripture. You feel you have a right to hurl insults "twister view" about it and no one is to show you a better way, even, although it is done without your method of throwing insults. I think that is a clear way of showing that you are not seeing scripture correctly, the insults are proof.

 

[danschance]

We disagree on much, and I dont mean this to be offensive, but im really messed up here. Are you feeling ok?

You are an honorable man and I have said this more than once. I do not doubt you are insincere. You act with charachter and post that way also. So never think I am against you as I am not. I just feel you are snared in a cult and bound up in in those teachings. You accept them as truth and are hesitant to change, as we all are. I hope you have a Paul moment when Jesus tells you you are not doing His will and leads you in the right direction.

The HRM is a serious snare. Yes, you are a decent man and satan has no trouble dragging decent men to hell.

 

[Hizikyah]

You are an honorable man and I have said this more than once. I do not doubt you are insincere. You act with charachter and post that way also. So never think I am against you as I am not. I just feel you are snared in a cult and bound up in in those teachings. You accept them as truth and are hesitant to change, as we all are. I hope you have a Paul moment when Jesus tells you you are not doing His will and leads you in the right direction.

The HRM is a serious snare. Yes, you are a decent man and satan has no trouble dragging decent men to hell.

So you say the vision means pig is food now

I say the vision means gentiles are not to be considered unclean

Scripture gives the meaning of the vision spoken directly from Kepha, and spoken to come directly from Yahweh:

Acts 10:28, "And he said to them; You yourselves are aware how it is not Lawful for a Yahdai to associate with one of another nation, or to enter his house; but Yahweh has shown me that I must not call any man common or unclean."

and I am the one not in truth and cult infused?

 

[danschance]

So you say the vision means pig is food now

I say the vision means gentiles are not to be considered unclean

Scripture gives the meaning of the vision spoken directly from Kepha, and spoken to come directly from Yahweh:

Acts 10:28, "And he said to them; You yourselves are aware how it is not Lawful for a Yahdai to associate with one of another nation, or to enter his house; but Yahweh has shown me that I must not call any man common or unclean."

and I am the one not in truth and cult infused?

Not exactly. The vision clearly details an end to the concept of clean versus unclean. That means eat as you wish and visit who you wish. Why does it have to be only about gentiles? Do we "kill and eat" gentiles? Of course not!

The very clear context determines the vision to be about food being declared clean by God, yet you wish to remove the context of the vision and say it is ONLY about gentiles and that is foolishness. The vision applies to BOTH. Too bad you can not see that.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So you say the vision means pig is food now

I say the vision means gentiles are not to be considered unclean

Scripture gives the meaning of the vision spoken directly from Kepha, and spoken to come directly from Yahweh:

Acts 10:28, "And he said to them; You yourselves are aware how it is not Lawful for a Yahdai to associate with one of another nation, or to enter his house; but Yahweh has shown me that I must not call any man common or unclean."

and I am the one not in truth and cult infused?

so you really think peter would offend the gentiles by not eating what they were eating? And the reason paul had to openly confront peter for being afraid of the circumcised jews was meaningless?

Paul confronted Peter because he was a hypocrite. And when any jews were around, he returned to law. But when they were not around, he lived in his freedom of Grace.

 

[Hizikyah]

So you say the vision means pig is food now

I say the vision means gentiles are not to be considered unclean

Scripture gives the meaning of the vision spoken directly from Kepha, and spoken to come directly from Yahweh:

Acts 10:28, "And he said to them; You yourselves are aware how it is not Lawful for a Yahdai to associate with one of another nation, or to enter his house; but Yahweh has shown me that I must not call any man common or unclean."

and I am the one not in truth and cult infused?

Not exactly. The vision clearly details an end to the concept of clean versus unclean. That means eat as you wish and visit who you wish. Why does it have to be only about gentiles? Do we "kill and eat" gentiles? Of course not!

The very clear context determines the vision to be about food being declared clean by God, yet you wish to remove the context of the vision and say it is ONLY about gentiles and that is foolishness. The vision applies to BOTH. Too bad you can not see that.

Using that faulty logic that would mean an amalgamated "godzilla" beast with a whole bunch of crowns is going to literally rise:

Revelation 13:1, "And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the names of blasphemy."

One of the pharisees problems is that they would not give their tradition up even when presented with the word of Yahweh.

 

[danschance]

Using that faulty logic that would mean an amalgamated "godzilla" beast with a whole bunch of crowns is going to literally rise:

Revelation 13:1, "And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the names of blasphemy."

One of the pharisees problems is that they would not give their tradition up even when presented with the word of Yahweh.

Are we now comparing apples to lizards? Are we really going to determine what a vision means by yet another vision??

You reject what I am saying? Fine, that is your choice. Many ignored what Jesus said too.

 

[Hizikyah]

Are we now comparing apples to lizards? Are we really going to determine what a vision means by yet another vision??

You reject what I am saying? Fine, that is your choice. Many ignored what Jesus said too.

Kepha's vision is explained:

Acts 10:28, "And he said to them; You yourselves are aware how it is not Lawful for a Yahdai to associate with one of another nation, or to enter his house; but Yahweh has shown me that I must not call any man common or unclean."

 

[RedTent]

Not exactly. The vision clearly details an end to the concept of clean versus unclean. That means eat as you wish and visit who you wish. Why does it have to be only about gentiles? Do we "kill and eat" gentiles? Of course not!

The very clear context determines the vision to be about food being declared clean by God, yet you wish to remove the context of the vision and say it is ONLY about gentiles and that is foolishness. The vision applies to BOTH. Too bad you can not see that.

We try to show you scripture, but every time you discount it. Lots of times you simply say you won't listen to scripture from beginning to end because scripture tells you the beginning has been put to an end. Or, you say that is law and law is done and over. Besides you often bring in real truths, just incomplete ones. Your private view of Jews cannot be shaken with the study of this subject given in Romans, for some of how Paul worded it sounds like "down with those awful Jews". So by deciding what you want scripture to say first, you can make scripture say that.

On top of that, scripture tells us there are amendments, and changes. Just like there are amendments to the US constitution. You do not want to read the original constitution, you say that is going behind, you just want to read the amended one. So of course you are mixed up and there you stand on your soap box pounding your fists saying how perfect and right you are without ever listening to anything else.

I just made a study that showed me I had been wrong about something for years. I did that by studying scripture. It is something you would not be able to do, for we give you scripture and you ignore it.

 

[danschance]

Kepha's vision is explained:

Acts 10:28, "And he said to them; You yourselves are aware how it is not Lawful for a Yahdai to associate with one of another nation, or to enter his house; but Yahweh has shown me that I must not call any man common or unclean."

Who is he speaking to? No the vision is not explained, it is only in part explained. Do we kill and eat gentiles?

 

[Hizikyah]

Who is he speaking to? No the vision is not explained, it is only in part explained. Do we kill and eat gentiles?

Acts 10:17-20, "Now while Kepha was wondering within himself what this vision which he had seen meant, behold, the men who had been sent from Cornelius had asked where Simon's house was, and stood in front of the gate. They called out and asked whether Simon, whose surname was Kepha, was lodging there. Now while Kepha was thinking about the vision, the Spirit said to him; Behold, three men seek you. Arise therefore, and go below and go with them, doubting nothing; for I have sent them."

Acts 10:28, "And he said to them; You yourselves are aware how it is not Lawful for a Yahdai to associate with one of another nation, or to enter his house; but Yahweh has shown me that I must not call any man common or unclean."

 

[Hizikyah]

[h=2]Re: Is the Hebrew Roots Movement a cult?[/h]
Acts 24:5, "For we have found this man to be a pest: one who stirs up trouble among all the Yahdaim throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes."

"sect" is word #G139 - hairesis

hairesis: choice, opinion​

Original Word: αἵρεσις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: hairesis
Phonetic Spelling: (hah'-ee-res-is)
Short Definition: a self-chosen opinion, a sect
Definition: a self-chosen opinion, a religious or philosophical sect, discord or contention.

Definition of SECT
1a : a dissenting or schismatic religious body; especially : one regarded as extreme or heretical
b : a religious denomination
2archaic : sex 1 <so is all her sect — Shakespeare>
3a : a group adhering to a distinctive doctrine or to a leader
b : party
c : faction

Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy--so I worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."

Since:

Revelation 12:9, "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, who deceives the whole world..."

It is fitting that anyone who follows truth will be an outcast.

 

[danschance]

Acts 10:17-20, "Now while Kepha was wondering within himself what this vision which he had seen meant, behold, the men who had been sent from Cornelius had asked where Simon's house was, and stood in front of the gate. They called out and asked whether Simon, whose surname was Kepha, was lodging there. Now while Kepha was thinking about the vision, the Spirit said to him; Behold, three men seek you. Arise therefore, and go below and go with them, doubting nothing; for I have sent them."

Acts 10:28, "And he said to them; You yourselves are aware how it is not Lawful for a Yahdai to associate with one of another nation, or to enter his house; but Yahweh has shown me that I must not call any man common or unclean."

Prove to me the vision is only about gentiles?
What is the vision about?
What does kill and eat imply when applied to unclean animals?

Yes, it does apply to gentiles. It also applies to food, even if you can not see or understand that. What is the vision about?
Answer: The end to the concept of clean and unclean. It is another example of tearing down the old ways to make room for the new ways.