Is the Hebrew Roots Movement a cult?

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Linda70

Guest
Here's the rest of part 1 of that article I've been posting:

Then, the knockout blow:

"Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and [from] fornication, and [from] things strangled, and [from] blood. For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day." Acts 15:19-21

In an amazing display, James through the Holy Spirit, tells us once and for all what God expects from Gentile believers...and it is not to be placed under the Law of Moses. There exists no evidence in the New Testament that mandates that any Gentile believer observe Jewish holidays, eat kosher foods or worship only on the Sabbath day. What was the reaction from the entire assembled group of elders? They said this:

"Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, [Ye must] be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no [such] commandment: It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell [you] the same things by mouth. For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well." Acts 15:24-29

Did you catch that line? Go back and reread the Apostles themselves saying that they never gave any such commandment for Gentiles to be placed under the Law of Moses. Never. Ever. Do you believe the Bible? Don't take my word for it, look it up and read it for yourself...

The believer in Christ is not called to law, but to freedom in Jesus. And for those who still need further proof, Paul provides it in Galatians 2:

"But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation. But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before [them] all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? We [who are] Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." Galatians 2:11-16

Conclusion

The roots of Christianity grow deep in Jewish culture, and it is highly recommended that all Christians learn about the Jewish feast days, holy days and other customs. They will only deepen our appreciation and understanding of our common ancestry that we have, Gentiles together with Jews. But to suggest that any Gentile believer who follows Jesus must be placed under Old Testament law is nothing but bondage, and it's a bondage that the Bible speaks against not only in the verses quoted here, but in many other places as well. Regarding the freedom we have in Christ, let me leave you with this verse from the Master himself:

"If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed." John 8:36

(Acknowledgement: the sections titled "Why haven't I heard...", and "A few warning signs" were taken from Cyshift.com)

The Hebrew Roots Cult Movement - Part 1: Origins and Beliefs
 
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Linda70

Guest
The purpose of the Old Testament dietary restrictions were for the purpose of separating Israel from the nations and for teaching her the difference between holy and unholy. They were never given to the Gentile nations.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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SO the words: "[Ye must] be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no [such] commandment:"

As in saying we never said to be circumcised and keep the Law.

"[Ye must] be circumcised, and keep the law" Are added and not in the oldest greek manuscripts, which means someone added them in as a false witness.

New International Version
We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said.

New Living Translation
"We understand that some men from here have troubled you and upset you with their teaching, but we did not send them!

English Standard Version
Since we have heard that some persons have gone out from us and troubled you with words, unsettling your minds, although we gave them no instructions,

New American Standard Bible
"Since we have heard that some of our number to whom we gave no instruction have disturbed you with their words, unsettling your souls,

King James Bible
Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Because we have heard that some without our authorization went out from us and troubled you with their words and unsettled your hearts,

International Standard Version
We have heard that some men, coming from us without instructions from us, have said things to trouble you and have unsettled you.

NET Bible
Since we have heard that some have gone out from among us with no orders from us and have confused you, upsetting your minds by what they said,

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“We hear that men among us went out and have alarmed you with words and have subverted your souls, as they were saying, 'Be circumcised and keep The Law', which we have not commanded them.”

GOD'S WORD® Translation
We have heard that some individuals who came from us have confused you with statements that disturb you. We did not authorize these men [to speak].

Jubilee Bible 2000
forasmuch as we have heard that certain ones who went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised and keep the law, to whom we gave no such commandment,

King James 2000 Bible
Since we have heard that certain who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, You must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

American King James Version
For as much as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, You must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

American Standard Version
Forasmuch as we have heard that certain who went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls; to whom we gave no commandment;

Douay-Rheims Bible
Forasmuch as we have heard, that some going out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls; to whom we gave no commandment:

Darby Bible Translation
Inasmuch as we have heard that some who went out from amongst us have troubled you by words, upsetting your souls, [saying that ye must be circumcised and keep the law]; to whom we gave no commandment;

English Revised Version
Forasmuch as we have heard that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls; to whom we gave no commandment;

Webster's Bible Translation
Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain who went out from us, have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law; to whom we gave no such commandment:

Weymouth New Testament
As we have been informed that certain persons who have gone out from among us have disturbed you by their teaching and have unsettled your minds, without having received any such instructions from us;

World English Bible
Because we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, 'You must be circumcised and keep the law,' to whom we gave no commandment;

Young's Literal Translation
seeing we have heard that certain having gone forth from us did trouble you with words, subverting your souls, saying to be circumcised and to keep the law, to whom we did give no charge,
 
K

Kerry

Guest
Be circumcised in the heart and not the flesh.
 
Oct 31, 2011
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The purpose of the Old Testament dietary restrictions were for the purpose of separating Israel from the nations and for teaching her the difference between holy and unholy. They were never given to the Gentile nations.
Why then should we keep these instructions in the bible, shouldn't we have a gentile only bible?
 
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danschance

Guest
That wasn't the question at all. God had a reason to give them in the first place, why would God do that? "we are free to eat" is not in answer to that question.
Eat as you please, according to your conscience and according to Acts 10 and Col 2:16-17.
 
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Linda70

Guest
Why then should we keep these instructions in the bible, shouldn't we have a gentile only bible?
Since the original writers whom God inspired to pen the Scriptures were all Jews, maybe you need to re-write your own "gentile only" bible?

Romans 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
Romans 3:2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
 
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Oct 31, 2011
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Since the original writers whom God inspired to pen the Scriptures were all Jews, maybe you need to re-write your own "gentile only" bible?

Romans 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
Romans 3:2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
If the oracles of God were committed to them, shouldn't we also read the oracles of God? You said that the food laws were only written for the Jews?
 
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Linda70

Guest
If the oracles of God were committed to them, shouldn't we also read the oracles of God? You said that the food laws were only written for the Jews?
The entire Mosaic Law was given to the Jews (Children of Israel) and for the Jews. Of course, we should all read them. But the New Testament believer is not BOUND to them.

What Is The Christian's Relationship With the Old Testament Law? The Bible says Christians are dead to the law (Romans 7:1-4). What does this mean?

(1) The law does not control the Christian's life (Romans 7:1-2). Christ is our new husband, and He controls our lives through the New Covenant. While the eternal principles of morality reflected in the law of Moses are respected by the Christian, our rule in life is not the law of Moses but the life of Christ as revealed to us in the New Testament.

(2) The law cannot condemn the Christian (Romans 7:3). The Lord Jesus Christ took our condemnation upon Himself on the cross!

(3) The Christian serves Christ through the Spirit, not through his own power and wisdom (Romans 7:6).

God's Warnings to Those Who Misuse the Law:

(1) To turn back to Old Testament legalism is to fail to enter into rest (Hebrews 4).

(2) Those who turn back to Old Testament legalism crucify the Son of God afresh and cannot be brought again to repentance (Hebrews 6:4-8).

(3) Those who turn back to Old Testament legalism will be judged severely (Hebrews 10:26-31).

(4) God has no pleasure in those who turn back to Old Testament legalism (Hebrews 10:38-39).

Do you understand what it means to "rightly dividing" the Word?

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2 Timothy 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

Old Testament - Promise / New Testament - Fulfillment

Old Testament - Types / New Testament - Reality

Old Testament - Preparation / New Testament - Presentation

Old Testament - The Foundation / New Testament - The Building
(Way of Life Encyclopedia: BIBLE/LAW)
******************************

All Scripture is written TO us, but not all Scripture is written FOR us!

Do you want to continue living in "types and shadows"?

Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Colossians 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

The Hebrew Roots Cult keeps a person living in bondage to "types and shadows". Why are you so enamored with keeping dietary laws of the Old Testament? It isn't going to make you anymore spiritual than anyone else who doesn't.

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
 
Oct 31, 2011
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Linda: I wish you would get out your bible, check it, and also these reports of bible teachings. Your thought seem to stem from that OT was all wrong, NT is all right. Scripture doesn't say that, not even Hebrews teaching not to go back to OT teachings but accept Christ.

You talk as if someone, at sometime in time, was bound to law. Nothing says that.

Circumcision is an example of OT law, and if someone had some skin cut off it could mean nothing. Anyone could have that done even people who worshipped Baal. Done because of faith and through faith, it meant something to those people. It had nothing to do with the skin they cut off, it had everything to do with their faith.

Everyone, for all time, are saved only through grace. You can not find any scripture that says there is another way, and it is always through blood of Christ. Only a shadow of that blood was used, it was not completely effective as Christ's blood was, but it still was ONLY Christ's blood that worked.

Blood was sacrificed to idols for a completely different reason. Some of the Hebrews copied that sort of sacrifice from the idol worshippers and scripture says that God hated their sacrifice. It is through blood we are dead to the law, through grace. Always has been.

The Mosaic Law says that God will bless the obedient, and punish the disobedient. That punishment is never said anyplace to be death through lack of works. The entire bible makes it clear that God is the only one that has ever had the power to give grace. Never has any human been able to create salvation through law and works. When God says He will punish the disobedient, scripture does not say the disobedient will have no access to grace. It says hat is you are a thief you will go to jail.

After Christ, we are blessed with the Holy Spirit to help us, but if the spirit of God wasn't part of life even before, then legalism would be right and it never was.

We are not to turn back, we are to accept everything scripture tells us. We need a precise and thorough understanding of what Christ replaced and how it was done. It is like reading the amendments to our US constitution, we are not to go back to before those amendments were put in place. But we are not to read the amendments as the entire constitution.

We are not to live without the promises of Christ.
We are to accept how Christ took the shadows of Him and made them whole and complete.
We can look at how God had planned Christ from the beginning, how God developed that plan, and finally at Christ.

As far as the dietary laws, the physical doing them or not does not have the terrible importance you give them. If you use what you put in your mouth as part of your religion, whether you use them to not put some things in your mouth or use them to put some things in your mouth, we are told in scripture it has no importance. Your making it such a big deal is foolish. They were originally given as a link to the spiritual requirement. You are turning them into "I like to eat bacon". God has always watched your spirit, not your bacon.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
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Linda: I wish you would get out your bible, check it, and also these reports of bible teachings. Your thought seem to stem from that OT was all wrong, NT is all right. Scripture doesn't say that, not even Hebrews teaching not to go back to OT teachings but accept Christ.

You talk as if someone, at sometime in time, was bound to law. Nothing says that.

Circumcision is an example of OT law, and if someone had some skin cut off it could mean nothing. Anyone could have that done even people who worshipped Baal. Done because of faith and through faith, it meant something to those people. It had nothing to do with the skin they cut off, it had everything to do with their faith.

Everyone, for all time, are saved only through grace. You can not find any scripture that says there is another way, and it is always through blood of Christ. Only a shadow of that blood was used, it was not completely effective as Christ's blood was, but it still was ONLY Christ's blood that worked.

Blood was sacrificed to idols for a completely different reason. Some of the Hebrews copied that sort of sacrifice from the idol worshippers and scripture says that God hated their sacrifice. It is through blood we are dead to the law, through grace. Always has been.

The Mosaic Law says that God will bless the obedient, and punish the disobedient. That punishment is never said anyplace to be death through lack of works. The entire bible makes it clear that God is the only one that has ever had the power to give grace. Never has any human been able to create salvation through law and works. When God says He will punish the disobedient, scripture does not say the disobedient will have no access to grace. It says hat is you are a thief you will go to jail.

After Christ, we are blessed with the Holy Spirit to help us, but if the spirit of God wasn't part of life even before, then legalism would be right and it never was.

We are not to turn back, we are to accept everything scripture tells us. We need a precise and thorough understanding of what Christ replaced and how it was done. It is like reading the amendments to our US constitution, we are not to go back to before those amendments were put in place. But we are not to read the amendments as the entire constitution.

We are not to live without the promises of Christ.
We are to accept how Christ took the shadows of Him and made them whole and complete.
We can look at how God had planned Christ from the beginning, how God developed that plan, and finally at Christ.

As far as the dietary laws, the physical doing them or not does not have the terrible importance you give them. If you use what you put in your mouth as part of your religion, whether you use them to not put some things in your mouth or use them to put some things in your mouth, we are told in scripture it has no importance. Your making it such a big deal is foolish. They were originally given as a link to the spiritual requirement. You are turning them into "I like to eat bacon". God has always watched your spirit, not your bacon.
Your first line..."Linda: I wish you would get out your bible,"...
and you wrote that whole post without yours while Linda used plenty of Scripture support. (sigh)
 
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danschance

Guest
If the oracles of God were committed to them, shouldn't we also read the oracles of God? You said that the food laws were only written for the Jews?
Don't get stuck in a rut, yes we should read them and we should read all of the scriptures, especially the pertinent ones. Why settle for reading the old covenant and neglect the new?
 
Oct 31, 2011
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Your first line..."Linda: I wish you would get out your bible,"...
and you wrote that whole post without yours while Linda used plenty of Scripture support. (sigh)
No I used the entire bible, it was for people who read scripture. Did you check one single thing against what bible says? No, of course not.

Acts 17:11 the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

They checked scripture!!


It is amazing the things you find in scripture when you study the entire book, you should try it.
 
Oct 31, 2011
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Don't get stuck in a rut, yes we should read them and we should read all of the scriptures, especially the pertinent ones. Why settle for reading the old covenant and neglect the new?
That was in response to the statement that a portion of scripture was only for the Jew, not for us. Not read this, neglect that, settle for one ahead of the other type of thought. But, as far as that approach to scripture, I truly believe that discovering all of God's plan for our salvation should be done, not just one part of it.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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No I used the entire bible, it was for people who read scripture. Did you check one single thing against what bible says? No, of course not.

Acts 17:11 the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

They checked scripture!!


It is amazing the things you find in scripture when you study the entire book, you should try it.
NAWW, I'm still trying to figure out why you accused Linda when you said, "Linda: I wish you would get out your bible,"...
She used plenty of Scripture references...coherently and in context.
Why do you continue with your silly accusations?
 
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danschance

Guest
That was in response to the statement that a portion of scripture was only for the Jew, not for us. Not read this, neglect that, settle for one ahead of the other type of thought. But, as far as that approach to scripture, I truly believe that discovering all of God's plan for our salvation should be done, not just one part of it.
No part of scripture should be neglected but that is especially true for the NT, which reals Jesus Christ to us.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
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Linda wrote- ''All Scripture is written TO us, but not all Scripture is written FOR us!''

I understand it as ..

All Scripture is FOR us, but not all Scripture is written to us!

It's kind of semantical and pretty much conveys the same idea.

There is much Scripture written to Israel under Moses (Mosaic Covenant- the big 613) that was to Israel not to us, yet it is for us in the sense that we can learn from them as far as their lack of faith in the desert etc.,

Now these things took place as examples for us, that we might not desire evil as they did.
(1Co 10:6)
 
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Linda70

Guest
No I used the entire bible, it was for people who read scripture. Did you check one single thing against what bible says? No, of course not.
That would be a false assumption on your part, RedTent! If you used the Bible, why not back up what you said by posting the Scripture references...something you very rarely do. Did you check out all the Scripture references in my post?

Acts 17:11 the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

They checked scripture!!


It is amazing the things you find in scripture when you study the entire book, you should try it.
So why don't YOU do it more often....instead of falsely accusing others of not doing so? You are certainly consistent in pointing your judgmental finger at others in order to remove the "mote" in their eye, when you have a beam in your own eye. BTW, that's from Matthew 7:1-5. Check it out. It's called hypocritical judging and you are a "master" at it!

Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Matthew 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Matthew 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Matthew 7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
Matthew 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.