Is unconditional election biblical?
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Correct, but what causes this? That's the question.
Free-willers claim that the man with a stony heart squeezes faith and repentance out of their stony hearts.
Reformed believers teach that God gives the man a heart of flesh, and the fruit of this heart of flesh is faith and repentance.
One allows for boasting, the other does not.
Free-willers claim that the man with a stony heart squeezes faith and repentance out of their stony hearts.
Reformed believers teach that God gives the man a heart of flesh, and the fruit of this heart of flesh is faith and repentance.
One allows for boasting, the other does not.
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You’re calling God a liar. God either lied or He simply repented, changed His mind and did not do what He declared He would do.
10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
God’s response of mercy was in accordance to Nineveh’s response to His word.
10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
God’s response of mercy was in accordance to Nineveh’s response to His word.
Decisional regeneration is the fundamental position of free-willers.
I am using the language because I am exposing them to the logical implications of their teaching, and exposing others to the reality of what they teach.
They teach that they must dredge up faith and repentance of their own fallen nature in order to receive a heart of flesh, rather than teaching that God needs to give them a heart of flesh first, so they can manifest faith and repentance through this new regenerate nature.
I notice that you're not criticizing the accuracy of the view. I don't think you can, and this is the fundamental difference between free-willer theology and Reformed theology.
I'll likely repeat this continually so get used to it
I am using the language because I am exposing them to the logical implications of their teaching, and exposing others to the reality of what they teach.
They teach that they must dredge up faith and repentance of their own fallen nature in order to receive a heart of flesh, rather than teaching that God needs to give them a heart of flesh first, so they can manifest faith and repentance through this new regenerate nature.
I notice that you're not criticizing the accuracy of the view. I don't think you can, and this is the fundamental difference between free-willer theology and Reformed theology.
I'll likely repeat this continually so get used to it
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I feel a sadness for people who hold on to an uncomforting doctrine as yourself. God did not predestine anyone to hell. Your doctrine has too limited of the understanding of who is saved eternally. The part of your family that you think is not saved eternally (in my estimation, because I do not know them personally) is probably saved eternally. Many dedicated children of God have been mislead by misinterpreting the strait gate and narrow way that leads to life, to be referencing eternal life, when actually it is referencing that good and abundant life we can live here in this world by obeying his commandments and few there be that find it. God's born again children, by their nature, can very much look as if they are among the lost eternally. They are indeed lost from their fellowship with their God and your encouragement and prayers could help them to repent, and I pray that you might have hope that they are saved eternally. Repenting is not the cause of our eternal salvation.
Of course God's response of mercy was in accordance with the response to his word. But, he knew it was going to happen all the time. In fact, he granted the repentance necessary for their obedience.
I have given Scriptures in the past to show you that both faith and repentance is a gift of God.
And, as I told you, he has exhaustive foreknowledge (Is 46:9-10). Therefore, nothing took him by surprise.
And, he didn't change. As I told you, his nature doesn't change at all. God is constant.
I have given Scriptures in the past to show you that both faith and repentance is a gift of God.
And, as I told you, he has exhaustive foreknowledge (Is 46:9-10). Therefore, nothing took him by surprise.
And, he didn't change. As I told you, his nature doesn't change at all. God is constant.
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How can prayer help, if, in your world view, God does not work on the will to change their mind? That is off limits to free-willers.
However, a Reformed person can pray for this. In fact, he is expected to, because God ordains both the MEANS (prayer) and the END (salvation).
Matt 7: 13“Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easya that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.
If you read these verses, and the surrounding context, it is talking about salvation. I am not sure how you could distort it to say otherwise.
The opposite is destruction, not mere unhappiness.
However, a Reformed person can pray for this. In fact, he is expected to, because God ordains both the MEANS (prayer) and the END (salvation).
Matt 7: 13“Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easya that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.
If you read these verses, and the surrounding context, it is talking about salvation. I am not sure how you could distort it to say otherwise.
The opposite is destruction, not mere unhappiness.
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Is repentance and faith a specific gift? Did the Ninevehites repent and place their faith in YHVH?
The amazing thing is that God himself gives us faith (Acts 16:14, Ephesians 2:8-9, 2 Peter 1:1, Philippians 1:29, Acts 3:16) and grants us repentance (Acts 11:18, 2 Timothy 2:25). Those who are saved have nothing to boast about whatsoever because of this; it is not about human works (Romans 3:20, 27-28, 4:5, 1 Corinthians 1:31, Galatians 2:16). Salvation is God’s work.
I can't play theological ping-pong with you all day so I will likely quit responding for a while.
Hopefully those who are following the thread can realize that your theology, while it may appear to be true at a surface level, has serious issues and you are not reconciling all of Scripture together.
The amazing thing is that God himself gives us faith (Acts 16:14, Ephesians 2:8-9, 2 Peter 1:1, Philippians 1:29, Acts 3:16) and grants us repentance (Acts 11:18, 2 Timothy 2:25). Those who are saved have nothing to boast about whatsoever because of this; it is not about human works (Romans 3:20, 27-28, 4:5, 1 Corinthians 1:31, Galatians 2:16). Salvation is God’s work.
I can't play theological ping-pong with you all day so I will likely quit responding for a while.
Hopefully those who are following the thread can realize that your theology, while it may appear to be true at a surface level, has serious issues and you are not reconciling all of Scripture together.
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This verse is misinterpreted too many times. What does God know from the beginning ( Genesis 1:1)? God knows the end. He has determined it so. Ever read the book of Revelation? He’s declared how this thing is going to end up, with Him on the throne ruling and reigning and nothing man or Satan can do to thwart that.
By the way, repentance and faith is a necessary fruit of salvation. It doesn't cause salvation.
But, those who claim repentance is not a necessary fruit of salvation have serious issues.
Free Grace Movement churches and Grace Evangelical Society, as well as various non-Reformed Baptists make these sort of claims. Stephen Anderson would be another one.
They claim repentance in a biblical sense is not needed. Sometimes they will claim they believe in repentance but it is mere intellectual assent. These guys are false teachers.
But, those who claim repentance is not a necessary fruit of salvation have serious issues.
Free Grace Movement churches and Grace Evangelical Society, as well as various non-Reformed Baptists make these sort of claims. Stephen Anderson would be another one.
They claim repentance in a biblical sense is not needed. Sometimes they will claim they believe in repentance but it is mere intellectual assent. These guys are false teachers.
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Decisional regeneration is the fundamental position of free-willers.
I am using the language because I am exposing them to the logical implications of their teaching, and exposing others to the reality of what they teach.
They teach that they must dredge up faith and repentance of their own fallen nature in order to receive a heart of flesh, rather than teaching that God needs to give them a heart of flesh first, so they can manifest faith and repentance through this new regenerate nature.
I notice that you're not criticizing the accuracy of the view. I don't think you can, and this is the fundamental difference between free-willer theology and Reformed theology.
I'll likely repeat this continually so get used to it
I am using the language because I am exposing them to the logical implications of their teaching, and exposing others to the reality of what they teach.
They teach that they must dredge up faith and repentance of their own fallen nature in order to receive a heart of flesh, rather than teaching that God needs to give them a heart of flesh first, so they can manifest faith and repentance through this new regenerate nature.
I notice that you're not criticizing the accuracy of the view. I don't think you can, and this is the fundamental difference between free-willer theology and Reformed theology.
I'll likely repeat this continually so get used to it
My view is that repentance and faith does not merit grace.
An example would be a man who is commiting adultery on his wife, just because the man has stopped commiting adultery and is pleading for mercy from his wife, does not make the forgiveness received a reward for something you earn, its solely by grace of the wife to choose to forgive you.
How does this make sense?
I am not a Barthian who claims that election is only to mission and service. If you apply your beliefs to my theology, you will indeed be confused.
I am talking about the elect, those individuals who are those who were elected by the Father from the foundation of the world, whose names were written in the book of life of the Lamb, and were given to the Son.
Jesus knows them, and they hear his voice. Knowing is a personal, intimate relationship.
I am not a Barthian who claims that election is only to mission and service. If you apply your beliefs to my theology, you will indeed be confused.
I am talking about the elect, those individuals who are those who were elected by the Father from the foundation of the world, whose names were written in the book of life of the Lamb, and were given to the Son.
Jesus knows them, and they hear his voice. Knowing is a personal, intimate relationship.
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