Is unconditional election biblical?

[7seasrekeyed]

I stated that the blood of Christ has made atonement for sin and satisfied Gods demand for satisfaction according to the law. You have added to what I said to create a false narrative.

Everyone who submits their will to the will of God is saved. Those who resist God remain condemned. Man was made a little lower than God and must submit his will to the Father to have forgiveness of his sin. God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

Gods plan to redeem sinful men is believe and receive. Hear His word.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

all the Calvinists here seem to do that

they either twist what a person says, use verses from scripture and think we are dumb enough to believe the verses mean what Calvin teaches, employ red herrings like the universalism heresy and say that is what we believe and other inane childish tactics that they think actually make a dent

they all do it

it's creepy

they deliberatley goad and desire an arguement...no discussion...so they can engage in a personal way instead of just sticking to the topic

it's a waste of time to engage

I'm going to quit. all we do is give them a platform to spout Calvinism

it reeks

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

all the Calvinists here seem to do that

they either twist what a person says, use verses from scripture and think we are dumb enough to believe the verses mean what Calvin teaches, employ red herrings like the universalism heresy and say that is what we believe and other inane childish tactics that they think actually make a dent

they all do it

it's creepy

they deliberatley goad and desire an arguement...no discussion...so they can engage in a personal way instead of just sticking to the topic

it's a waste of time to engage

I'm going to quit. all we do is give them a platform to spout Calvinism

it reeks

Ma’am, I honestly tried to engage you, but you’ve done nothing but hurl insult after insult at me. I’ve tried being civil with you, but alas, to no avail. I took you off ignore in hopes of a civil debate. I am sorry for wasting your’s and my time.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

@RoboOp and @Oncefallen

Please go back through this thread and see where I lied to @7seasrekeyed or anyone for that matter. I have been called a liar a few times, called a fool via innuendo, insulted and told to grow up by @7seasrekeyed .

I posted a link showing her that unlimited atonement(her belief in the Christ dying for everybody w/o exception) is also called universal atonement. She then lied and said I want her, and the others, to believe this, so they’d get banned. Another lie coming from her.

This is unbecoming behavior for someone who claims the Christ as Lord. Please remedy the situation. I can’t PM, so I have to air my grievance in the open forum.

***I reported several of her posts calling me a liar and a fool via innuendo***

 

[Melach]

they deliberatley goad and desire an arguement...no discussion...so they can engage in a personal way instead of just sticking to the topic

calvinists love debate thats why.

 

[Hevosmies]

***I reported several of her posts calling me a liar and a fool via innuendo***

Why you gotta be like that? Snitching has come to my attention yet again. You might not agree with @7seasrekeyed but I know from talking with her in the past that she is a Christian and we agree with her on a lot. We might not agree on predestination, so discussion on that is futile since neither of us will budge, but I do believe shes a Christian and I hope she believes I am too!

But by reporting her posts you do realize you risk her getting REMOVED from the forum? If you dont like someone saying something you can just IGNORE them, no need to start rattin on folks. We dont play that where im from! Would you like to be banned from these forums? I know I wouldn't! And LORD KNOWS i've probably done said something in the past that SHOULD HAVE deserved such a fate, but the mods have showed grace on me.

Thats just how I operate and wish others would operate the same way, if y'all are just reporting each other's posts I bet the mods are smart enough to figure out this is something personal and will just keep it moving! I hope!

My suggestion is y'all SQUASH the beef, agree to disagree and KEEP IT MOVIN'

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Why you gotta be like that? Snitching has come to my attention yet again. You might not agree with @7seasrekeyed but I know from talking with her in the past that she is a Christian and we agree with her on a lot. We might not agree on predestination, so discussion on that is futile since neither of us will budge, but I do believe shes a Christian and I hope she believes I am too!

But by reporting her posts you do realize you risk her getting REMOVED from the forum? If you dont like someone saying something you can just IGNORE them, no need to start rattin on folks. We dont play that where im from!

Thats just how I operate and wish others would operate the same way, if y'all are just reporting each other's posts I bet the mods are smart enough to figure out this is something personal and will just keep it moving! I hope!

My suggestion is y'all SQUASH the beef, agree to disagree and KEEP IT MOVIN'

he isn't getting anyone removed because they disagree with him

maybe you noticed that a new thread about reporting posts was made recently?

it's right at the top of the BDF

what I am taking issue with this am, is the referrals to universalism, an actual heresy, and attributing that as a belief of those who are not in with the limited atonement

it's ridiculous to tell anyone to go back and read the posts wherein I stated that it is a lie to keep saying we are universalists. it IS a lie

someone who preaches universalism on this site will be banned and yet no one is doing that at the moment

the posturing and false posts being made are absurd

I have no intentions of responding to any of the false posts and lies about universalism anymore

thing is, if people are fed up with the Calvinist method of debate...twist what people say, misquote and throw out red herrings and accuse of universalism....then all for the better IMO

I am only responding to your post because you are being reasonable about it and I appreciate that

thanks!

 

[7seasrekeyed]

for the record and not that it actually matters, I did not call sackcloth a fool

I don't call names

but when someone lies, lies to try and smear another, it really is time to call it a day

 

[Grandpa]

i like you friend. i love you actually.

you are the most kind-hearted calvinist on here and i really like that. nice to see someone human from that camp. is it because you go to a non-calvinist church so you didnt pick up their robotic training? hahahaha

i am serious i do like you.

Thanks Melach.

I like you too.

That's the response the mother ship makes us say.

 

[Grandpa]

your understanding is really skewed

no one said a thing about universalism

I have seen you do this universalism red herring thing over and over

it stinketh

If the Atonement is for the Whole World then the Whole World is Saved.

That is the essence of Universalism, isn't it?

In order for it to NOT be Universalism wouldn't you HAVE TO agree with the Calvinist view that the Atonement is only for those who believe??? Only those who believe are Saved...

 

[Melach]

If the Atonement is for the Whole World then the Whole World is Saved.

That is the essence of Universalism, isn't it?

In order for it to NOT be Universalism wouldn't you HAVE TO agree with the Calvinist view that the Atonement is only for those who believe??? Only those who believe are Saved...

no we dont.

we just say Jesus atoned for everyone, some are still not saved because no faith. simple like that.

atonement in itself doesnt save, it needs to be faith too. just like in bible, in the wilderness the brozen serpent provided atonement for all bit, but only those who looked were actually saved. they had faith those others didnt, atonement was there but it did them no good

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

no we dont.

we just say Jesus atoned for everyone, some are still not saved because no faith. simple like that.

atonement in itself doesnt save, it needs to be faith too. just like in bible, in the wilderness the brozen serpent provided atonement for all bit, but only those who looked were actually saved. they had faith those others didnt, atonement was there but it did them no good

With the atonement comes reconciliation. Being reconciled means two enemies have become friends. and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS,” and he was called the friend of God.[James 2:23] We see both justification and reconciliation in that verse. Now, no one who is a friend of God will ever die lost. So if the Christ atoned for everybody w/o exception, then everybody w/o exception is reconciled to God, is a friend of His and is saved.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Why you gotta be like that? Snitching has come to my attention yet again. You might not agree with @7seasrekeyed but I know from talking with her in the past that she is a Christian and we agree with her on a lot. We might not agree on predestination, so discussion on that is futile since neither of us will budge, but I do believe shes a Christian and I hope she believes I am too!

But by reporting her posts you do realize you risk her getting REMOVED from the forum? If you dont like someone saying something you can just IGNORE them, no need to start rattin on folks. We dont play that where im from! Would you like to be banned from these forums? I know I wouldn't! And LORD KNOWS i've probably done said something in the past that SHOULD HAVE deserved such a fate, but the mods have showed grace on me.

Thats just how I operate and wish others would operate the same way, if y'all are just reporting each other's posts I bet the mods are smart enough to figure out this is something personal and will just keep it moving! I hope!

My suggestion is y'all SQUASH the beef, agree to disagree and KEEP IT MOVIN'

3 or 4 times she called me a liar and via innuendo called me a fool. Let her say that to you and see how you feel. A fool has said in his heart there is no God. By calling me a fool by innuendo she’s saying I’ve said in my heart God doesn’t exist. But she’s non-Reformed and will get away with it on here.

 

[posthuman]

If the Atonement is for the Whole World then the Whole World is Saved.

That is the essence of Universalism, isn't it?

In order for it to NOT be Universalism wouldn't you HAVE TO agree with the Calvinist view that the Atonement is only for those who believe??? Only those who believe are Saved...

i thought that was agreed 50 pages ago?

the truth is in the reconciliation of these three facts:

• He died for all
  • ex. 2 Cor. 5:15, Hebrews 2:9
• He bore the sins of many
  • ex. Hebrews 9:28, Isaiah 53:12
• not all are saved
  • ex. Matthew 7:21, Matthew 25:33

 

[preacher4truth]

are you promoting this now?

I am wondering, because only you Calvinists keep bringing it up

you are in conflict with Jesus Himself as He said anyone who belives in Him

Calvinists are going to be very disappointed to see non limited with Christ

such a stupid stupid arguement to keep saying this nonsense about a heretical belief that you dudes really know we are not promoting

if we were promoting that, we would all be banned as this site considers universalism a heresy and it is

grow up

You don't know what your talking about.

I bet with some personal study likened to the amount of time you spend on here arguing, describing your ill will and feelings towards others, charging others with hateful innuendos, name-calling, callow and false assertions, and just plain ugly behaviors you may, may arrive at the truth of the matter.

Jesus died for the sins of the elect. Only. Not every person who ever lived. Try to understand what you're talking about, your stance and attitude are un-Christ-like and un-Biblical, two severe and solemn issues.

Now, are you going to go after me again, slam me, show your disdain that you have for me yet again? You've held this serious grudge ever since I started a thread about Osteen. You went on a callow, needless and relentless attack only to later, and hypocritically start similar threads yourself.

Ever wonder why your heart has all that in it, and it comes out your mouth to the keyboard towards others regularly? Galatians 5:16-21 has the answer. Galatians 6:1-10 warns persons of said behavior, note especially Galatians 6:9.

Try studying, and try growing in grace and knowledge; 2 Peter 3:18.

 

[preacher4truth]

Where have I lied? I have not told you one.

Bro, she lives for this, the exercise of the flesh. She does this every time we come on here, she has never changed nor has she shown the grace that comes from Christ toward any of us. I responded to her, yet I rarely read anything she has to say. It is always negative, works of the flesh, malicious unfortunately.

Look, these types are on here all day long day after day to fight and argue. Let it go bro.

 

[preacher4truth]

Ma’am, I honestly tried to engage you, but you’ve done nothing but hurl insult after insult at me. I’ve tried being civil with you, but alas, to no avail. I took you off ignore in hopes of a civil debate. I am sorry for wasting your’s and my time.

You're correct. It takes grace to respond in the correct way, and she isn't doing it, unfortunately. But I will pray for her out of genuine love and concern. Christ my LORD has forgiven me much, I hold no grudge like she has, Leviticus 19:18. Fulfilling this verse is a picture of redemption via Christ and his Gospel. I say this because it cannot be accomplished in the flesh.

 

[Melach]

With the atonement comes reconciliation. Being reconciled means two enemies have become friends. and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS,” and he was called the friend of God.[James 2:23] We see both justification and reconciliation in that verse. Now, no one who is a friend of God will ever die lost. So if the Christ atoned for everybody w/o exception, then everybody w/o exception is reconciled to God, is a friend of His and is saved.

show me where it says with atonement comes reconciliation that if Jesus dies for someone they are automatically saved guaranteed and i will join you

 

[Desdichado]

Doesn't she know I'm the only one who can insult you or defame your character?

Fatso.

3 or 4 times she called me a liar and via innuendo called me a fool. Let her say that to you and see how you feel. A fool has said in his heart there is no God. By calling me a fool by innuendo she’s saying I’ve said in my heart God doesn’t exist. But she’s non-Reformed and will get away with it on here.

 

[posthuman]

show me where it says with atonement comes reconciliation that if Jesus dies for someone they are automatically saved guaranteed and i will join you

facts:

• He died for all
  • ex. 2 Cor. 5:15, Hebrews 2:9
• He bore the sins of many
  • ex. Hebrews 9:28, Isaiah 53:12
• not all are saved
  • ex. Matthew 7:21, Matthew 25:33

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Doesn't she know I'm the only one who can insult you or defame your character?

Fatso.

I’d would challenge you to a battle of wits, but it’s obvious you’re unarmed.