Is Universalsim in Opposition to the Bible?

[jaybird88]

Hypergrace does not say everyone goes. May I ask wher you came up with this idea?

can you
Explain what the difference is.

 

[PennEd]

Hi eternally-grateful,

Yes, I do believe it is possible for Jesus to get lost souls out of hell because Jesus has the keys to hell and death. No one can cross the great gulf or chasm that Father Abraham talked about in Luke 16:20-31, but I do believe Jesus can and does!

Revelation 1:18 King James Version (KJV)
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Hi Lafftur!

I think part of the problem here is that Hell should be translated into different words in various places in Scripture.

Hades is NOT the lake of fire, which is usually what we think of when Hell is mentioned.
The lake of fire is Gehenna, a totally different place than Hades.
No one is in Gehenna yet, because there hasn't been a final judgement where death, Hades, and those who's names aren't in the Book of life are thrown.

In regards to Jesus going to Hades, read post 252 for my thoughts on that.

 

[Lafftur]

The Only Way to have Eternity in Gods perfect Existence is by being Redeemed by the LORD Jesus Christ and that is obtained by Believing Jesus and trusting in the Atonement He secured to Redeem us...

There is no other Way..

Hello Adstar,

Correct! Jesus/Yeshua is the ONLY Way to have eternity in God's perfect existence.

I do not agree with universalism because I do not believe ALL will be saved.

The disagreement is over the "time frame" of being able to receive Jesus Christ/Yeshua as Savior and Lord. Most believe times up when we die on the Earth after which is the judgment.

To me, this judgment is whether I go to Paradise or Hell. It is NOT the Great White Throne Judgment wherein all that are not found in the Book of Life go directly into the Lake of Fire. The FINAL JUDGMENT is The Great White Throne after the 1000 year reign of Christ on the Earth.

So, I still think there is a very small chance that out of the pit of Hell a lost unsaved soul can call on the Name of Jesus/Yeshua and be saved.

The reason why I believe this is because when I look at what I know...........

- Jesus Christ is the ONLY WAY to the Father.
- We all need a Savior and Jesus is the Only Savior.
- After death is the judgment, however, it is not the Great White Throne judgement so, perhaps there is still a chance.....
- Jesus has the keys to death and hell so He can lock people in or let them out...
- So, if I died and ended up in hell, the ONLY WAY OUT and to the Father is still Jesus Christ and Him alone.
- Father Abraham cannot cross the great chasm nor anyone, but Jesus can!

Yes, I believe it is possible, BUT ONLY WITH JESUS and they have to call on His Name and receive His Blood for forgiveness of their sins and receive His Righteousness which is His Body - the Bread of Life.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

can you
Explain what the difference is.

Hypergrace states faith in Christ is what saves

Universalism says we will be saved no matter what we believe

 

[tourist]

Hi dc,

Oh goodness, good catch! I read right over the word "ALL". True, I do not believe ALL will be saved, HOWEVER, I do believe Jesus can get lost souls out of Hades.

I agree, Jesus is God and all things are possible.

 

[Lafftur]

For what it's worth, these are my thoughts on this issue.

NO ONE is getting to Heaven by ANY other means than the Blood of Christ. PERIOD. OT or NT makes no difference. Those faithful in the OT looked forward to their Messiah saving them.

I like the way this guy explains "set the captives free"

Q
After Jesus died, did he descend into Hades to set the captives free? If so, who were the captives?
A
There are two answers to your question, one general and one specific. In Luke 4:18 Jesus said that His mission was to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and to release the oppressed. This is a general reference to freeing all believers from the bondage of sin and the impossible requirements of religious work by paying for our sins on the cross.
Specifically, Matt. 27:52-53 says that after the Resurrection many holy people who had died came out of their tombs, and Ephesians 4:8 tells us that “When He ascended on High He led captives in His train.”
Before the cross, the spirits of all dead people went to Hades, the abode of the dead. After He had paid the price for our sins with his death, Jesus went there too (Luke 23:43). There were two sections there, one called Paradise where believers went and one called Torments where unbelievers still go. Those who had died in faith that He would one day come to redeem them were released from their temporary place in Paradise and when Jesus ascended into Heaven, they went with Him.


I think this principle also applies to the Gentile people of antiquity that followed the Law in their hearts, spoken of in Romans. Jesus
went to preach the Gospel to them in Hades, and I believe they are saved.

I do NOT believe that those who heard and rejected the Gospel while alive, OR those that hadn't heard the Gospel while alive, yet suppressed the the Truth and the clearly seen invisible attributes of God in unrighteousness, will have a second chance after death.

Every time we go down this universalism road, as much as our hearts mourn at the thought of everlasting death, we MUST remember Jesus sweating BLOOD, praying to His Father, that if there be ANY other way, to please take it. And we all know what the Father's silent response meant.

It really borders on trampling on His Blood to think there could possibly be another way.

Great post PennEd! Thank you!

I absolutely believe Yeshua/Jesus Christ/The Lamb of God/The Blood of Jesus is the ONLY Way. It's just the "time frame" that we differ on.

God's mercy trumps His judgment, until He says, "It is FINAL." There is an absolute end to this age and a FINAL JUDGMENT.

God's Mercy NEVER seems fair or just. Yet, it is God's Mercy - while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

In the parable about various times of the day that God looked in the market place for workers in His vineyard and He hired them even up to the last hour and paid them all the same. This does not seem fair or just, however, God's response was......

Matthew 20:11-16 King James Version (KJV)
11 And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house,

12 Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.

13 But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?

14 Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee.

15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?

16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.


PennEd, you are a wonderful brother-in-Christ and I respect you very much and thank you for your great post! God bless you!

 

[Lillywolf]

They looked forward to the salvation that was to come upon them by the Blood of Jesus..

What then happened when they died prior to the new testament Savior's sacrifice in that regard?

 

[Hevosmies]

I knew a good Muslim years ago that acted more Christians than most Christians I knew at the time. I met a good Hindu once also. My wife and I were out of town and looking for a church to attend one morning. I did a google search but while the address for the church (Christian) was correct the church was now a Hindu temple. We went in anyway, met a nice Hindu man who ran the place, took off our shoes, did a prayer, and gave the guy a small donation. He was thankful and gave us each an apple and a small portion of tea. Very interesting experience.

Looking for a church, found a hindu temple... "oh well, lets go in"
Discernment is a superpower these days it seems.

And im unchristian for saying that, and a pharisee as well. Oy vey. A christian in a hindu temple? Now thats ecumenical on another level!

 

[jaybird88]

Hypergrace states faith in Christ is what saves

Universalism says we will be saved no matter what we believe

What's the difference between grace and hyper grace

 

[tourist]

Looking for a church, found a hindu temple... "oh well, lets go in"
Discernment is a superpower these days it seems.

And im unchristian for saying that, and a pharisee as well. Oy vey. A christian in a hindu temple?

Upon discovery that this was not a Christian church I was set to turn around and leave. My wife felt the Holy Spirit urging her to go inside. She talked to the Hindu man and gave him some Christian literature about salvation to consider. He started to read it immediately. Who knows what possible result that may have happened because my wife chose to follow the lead of the Holy Spirit?

It is really not effective to pass out basic Christian material about salvation to a spiritually mature Christian church as it is a waste of time and a form of 'preaching to the choir'. Jesus said that those that are well don't need a physician but the sick certainly do so, you go where the sick people are.

I am not sure if your post was critical or praise but I do believe that my wife made a wise decision in going inside the temple at the risk of embarrassment, ridicule and scorn.

Yeah, "oh well, let's go in" and perform the work that our Heavenly Father has prepared for us to accomplish beforehand. That's how we roll 'em. If that upsets others than that's just too bad.

 

[dcontroversal]

Hi dc,

Good catch! I read right over the word "ALL". True, not all will be saved; HOWEVER, I do believe Jesus can get lost souls out of Hades BEFORE the Great White Throne of Judgment.

What do you think about Jesus being able to do that?

No, I do not believe that once a man dies lost he can be rescued from hell or the lake of fire...his destiny is sealed...............and the premise of one believing after burning in hell is also a farce....Luke 16, which I do not believe is a parable, presents the rich man refusing to believe Abraham concerning the ability of the word to convert his brothers that were still alive on the planet........He said, but if one went to them from the dead, they would BELIEVE and Abraham said, If they WILL not believe the LAW and Prophets which testify of Christ, they WILL NOT believe though one rose from the dead......and the truth is...ONE DID RISE from the dead..........

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the WORD OF GOD!

 

[PennEd]

Great post PennEd! Thank you!

I absolutely believe Yeshua/Jesus Christ/The Lamb of God/The Blood of Jesus is the ONLY Way. It's just the "time frame" that we differ on.

God's mercy trumps His judgment, until He says, "It is FINAL." There is an absolute end to this age and a FINAL JUDGMENT.

God's Mercy NEVER seems fair or just. Yet, it is God's Mercy - while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

In the parable about various times of the day that God looked in the market place for workers in His vineyard and He hired them even up to the last hour and paid them all the same. This does not seem fair or just, however, God's response was......

Matthew 20:11-16 King James Version (KJV)
11 And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house,

12 Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.

13 But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?

14 Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee.

15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?

16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.


PennEd, you are a wonderful brother-in-Christ and I respect you very much and thank you for your great post! God bless you!

Thank you for your kind words.
I would like to borrow a cup of optimism from my joyfull sister please!

 

[PennEd]

What's the difference between grace and hyper grace

Four cokes and a Hershey bar, given to a 6 year old!

Other than that, nuthin.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What's the difference between grace and hyper grace

Nothing that I can see.

Now Grace churches, and churches that claim to follow hypergrace do have different doctrines outside of the gospel Which they disagree with.

 

[Lafftur]

No, I do not believe that once a man dies lost he can be rescued from hell or the lake of fire...his destiny is sealed...............and the premise of one believing after burning in hell is also a farce....Luke 16, which I do not believe is a parable, presents the rich man refusing to believe Abraham concerning the ability of the word to convert his brothers that were still alive on the planet........He said, but if one went to them from the dead, they would BELIEVE and Abraham said, If they WILL not believe the LAW and Prophets which testify of Christ, they WILL NOT believe though one rose from the dead......and the truth is...ONE DID RISE from the dead..........

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the WORD OF GOD!

Thank you for your reply, dc! Always a pleasure to know your thoughts!

 

[Lafftur]

Thank you for your kind words.
I would like to borrow a cup of optimism from my joyfull sister please!

Here you are, PennEd! No need to borrow, it's freely given!

 

[Lillywolf]

What's the difference between grace and hyper grace

Hyper-Grace vs Biblical Grace. - UK Apologetics Library

 

[Lillywolf]

Here you are, PennEd! No need to borrow, it's freely given!

Love the cat.

 

[Sketch]

I appreciate much of what you say in this thread. I believe OT-era saints (who never heard the name of Jesus or of the cross) and infants who die are saved by the one and only Way, Jesus; on the grounds that Jesus is God. The same could be (theoretically) true of those today who haven't heard the name of Jesus, but who respond favorably to the Holy Spirit's conviction of their need for the Savior. God has "determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; that they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us". So it's no accident that they live where they live; in fact God put them there for the very reason that they may seek Him and find Him.

Thanks, that's a good word.
Nice to see someone that follows what I am saying.
I am not saying there is another "way". There isn't.

 

[Sketch]

Hi dc,

Oh goodness, good catch! I read right over the word "ALL". True, I do not believe ALL will be saved, HOWEVER, I do believe Jesus can get lost souls out of Hades.

That's an interesting point. Could you expand on that?