Israel or Palestine?

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#61
Romans 9:6
Well then, has God failed to fulfill his promise to Israel? No, for not all who are born into the nation of Israel are truly members of God's people!

how clear does it need to be.
Rom 9.

1. Paul is speaking present tense.
2. Paul is speaking about salvation
3. Speaking of Spiritual Isreal
4. Speaks of saving them from there sin, not turning them from their sin (us)

You ignore romans 11:


[SUP]25 [/SUP]For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. [SUP]26 [/SUP]And so all Israel will be saved,[SUP][g][/SUP] as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
[SUP]27 [/SUP]For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”[SUP][h][/SUP]


[SUP]28 [/SUP]Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. [SUP]29 [/SUP]For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

1. Speaking future tense
2. Speaking if national isreal not spiritual isreal
3. Speaks of turning the ungodliness from Jacob, not saving them eternally from their sin.

Forgive me if I do not want to be ignorant of the mystery.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#62
It is written:

Romans 9



Whosoever Believe on Him shall not be ashamed!
no one is arguing this.. some just think they are because they will not listen to understand what we believe.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#63
I wasnt worried...i was absolutely convinced if i had just floated what i backspaced would burn the forum down.
EG the conspiracy comment is insulting unless you want to tell me what the conspiracy is your talking about.
There is a conspiracy going on tho. But like i told you look at what is happenning

Insults
cheap shots
sides taken
name calling

And not much at all has even been said yet.
point taken, forgive me
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#64
EG do you have money to wager? or antique books i dont care i just hate
false shots.

In fact i hate any kind of emotionalism and rudeness.

Want to study the history of Rabinical Judiasm and the players?
We can start BC or the last 200 years, take names follow the blood
all the way to Israel.

We can limit it to mainstream librarys if you want.
Or we can use church history sources.
Just say how. Or tone yourself down.
what do you want to do?

Or zionism or Who are those guys over in Israel.
There are not secrets. No theories. If you want to do the study
you will find out its all true, much more than a mans stomach can handle.
Otherwise your shots are unwarrented and not defendable. just shots.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#65
EG do you have money to wager? or antique books i dont care i just hate
false shots.

In fact i hate any kind of emotionalism and rudeness.

Want to study the history of Rabinical Judiasm and the players?
We can start BC or the last 200 years, take names follow the blood
all the way to Israel.

We can limit it to mainstream librarys if you want.
Or we can use church history sources.
Just say how. Or tone yourself down.
what do you want to do?

Or zionism or Who are those guys over in Israel.
There are not secrets. No theories. If you want to do the study
you will find out its all true, much more than a mans stomach can handle.
Otherwise your shots are unwarrented and not defendable. just shots.
1. everything was prophesied. nothing we are seeing today from Anyone suprises me at all
2. I am not worried. No one can do ANYTHING unless God allows them to
3. how would this change my thinking? it won't. God promises are his promises..

as I have said many times. I do not know who real Isreal (whuy do we keep saying jew? there are 12 tribes) is.. But I don;t have to know. If God is going to keep his promise, that is for him to figure out not me.

It does not affect me.. what I am worried about is getting the gospel out. Not what people may or may not do. My government is corrupt and my country is probably going to collapse. I can;t do anything about it. so why stress over it?
 
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Abiding

Guest
#66
1. everything was prophesied. nothing we are seeing today from Anyone suprises me at all
2. I am not worried. No one can do ANYTHING unless God allows them to
3. how would this change my thinking? it won't. God promises are his promises..

as I have said many times. I do not know who real Isreal (whuy do we keep saying jew? there are 12 tribes) is.. But I don;t have to know. If God is going to keep his promise, that is for him to figure out not me.

It does not affect me.. what I am worried about is getting the gospel out. Not what people may or may not do. My government is corrupt and my country is probably going to collapse. I can;t do anything about it. so why stress over it?

then why do you always have to come and aggitate a thread?
I see no reason for it. Your not qualified to do it. whats the point?
Even tonite i was hoping maybe this time i can post in a thread
of my interest.......bammmmm again senseless fighting before anything
got off the ground really. Yes it would be best to blog this stuff.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#67
then why do you always have to come and aggitate a thread?
I see no reason for it. Your not qualified to do it. whats the point?
Even tonite i was hoping maybe this time i can post in a thread
of my interest.......bammmmm again senseless fighting before anything
got off the ground really. Yes it would be best to blog this stuff.

How did I agitate a thread?


I made a comment about what I thought.. three beliefs, and tried to point us to the gospel. and not all this other stuff. which in the greater scene really has NOTHING to do with salvation.

then had to defend myself against another false witness against my belief?

I don't get it!
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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#68
Well sometimes truth takes a little deeper digging.
hi brudda.
the truth is actually real clear and simple:)

it always was.


Acts 13
42As they went out, the people begged that these things might be told them the next Sabbath. 43And after the meeting of the synagogue broke up, many Jews and devout converts to Judaism followed Paul and Barnabas, who, as they spoke with them, urged them to continue in the grace of God.

44The next Sabbath almost the whole city gathered to hear the word of the Lord. 45But when the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy and began to contradict what was spoken by Paul, reviling him. 46And Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly, saying, “It was necessary that the word of God be spoken first to you. Since you thrust it aside and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles. 47For so the Lord has commanded us, saying,

“‘I have made you a light for the Gentiles,
that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.’”

48And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed. 49And the word of the Lord was spreading throughout the whole region. 50But the Jews incited the devout women of high standing and the leading men of the city, stirred up persecution against Paul and Barnabas, and drove them out of their district. 51But they shook off the dust from their feet against them and went to Iconium. 52And the disciples were filled with joy and with the Holy Spirit.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#69
and to add. I do think I am qualified to explain my belief. Is anyone more qualifed to tell me what I believe? (although it seems some people do think they are)!
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#70
When Titus destroyed Jerusalem in 70 A.D

whose doing was Titus and the desolation of Jerusalem in 70AD
it was titus' doing...God allowed it...
 
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Abiding

Guest
#71

How did I agitate a thread?


I made a comment about what I thought.. three beliefs, and tried to point us to the gospel. and not all this other stuff. which in the greater scene really has NOTHING to do with salvation.

then had to defend myself against another false witness against my belief?

I don't get it!

You dont get what? what conspiracy theory am i holding to?
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,137
216
63
#72
The avatar of the man that started this thread look who is above who?......... that person has long passed away.

We know the battle is Won and Salvation is come for our eternal life.

It is the people that Love and Obey Heavenly Father and Yahshua the Messiah that face persecution for their beliefs.

The war is made with those that Keep the Commandments and have Faith in Yahshua the Messiah.

Is not this Israel v Palestine? not trying to have people passively deny Yahshua the Messiah?

Revelation 3

7And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;8I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name. 9Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. 10Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. 11Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. 12Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God,which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. 13He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches
i would not want to be found an ally of the synagogue of satan... there is no excuse for those of us that know the Scriptures.. we hold on to the Truth and let no one tell us differently.

Revelation 11

[SUP]8 [/SUP]And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
Here is a clue for you all of how that city is described.
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#73
their Land was desolate by then already.
actually it wasn't...jerusalem was desolate...the rest of judea was mostly intact...

the history is a long story...but to make it short...the jews did not lose their land in AD 70...what happened in AD 70 has a different significance...

if land claims are the subject then the bar kokhba revolt is the historical event you are looking for...though even then jews were not completely expelled from the land...

it is so much more complicated than 'AD 70 was 586 BC all over again'
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#74
Pete do the muslims hate jews or zionists?
Do they hate Americans or our zionists government?
all of the above...muslim opposition to jews and to americans goes much further back than 1948...
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#75
and to add. I do think I am qualified to explain my belief. Is anyone more qualifed to tell me what I believe? (although it seems some people do think they are)!
Yes you are qualified to explain your belief and you have and ive listened
My point was that your not qualified to argue with what others say...you just
wrap them up and call them conspiracy theories. At least thats what ive seen.
If you wanted to prove things, that would be different. Then we could prove them.

Or you make a glib remark and say its not about salvation, and shouldnt matter.
And i say if it doesnt matter then maybe you should go to another thread.
Since it might matter to others. Because ive waited months to post in threads
and dialogue with like minded folks but it always gets into i fight and i quit.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#76
the conspiracy comment is insulting unless you want to tell me what the conspiracy is your talking about.
There is a conspiracy going on tho. But like i told you look at what is happenning

Insults
cheap shots
sides taken
name calling

And not much at all has even been said yet.
this brings to mind the indoctrination i mentioned (in this thread?)

some buzzwords were injected into our psyches over decades.

people were trained to react to certain things said.

and the reactions were even given to us - to shut it all down.



Tikun Olam-תיקון עולם

Promoting Israeli democracy, exposing secrets of the national security state

The Israel Project’s Secret Hasbara Handbook Exposed

by RICHARD SILVERSTEIN on JULY 10, 2009 ·

The Israel Project&#8217;s Secret Hasbara Handbook Exposed Tikun-Olam Tikun Olam-תיקון עולם < click


~

Hasbara
Hasbara refers to the propaganda efforts to improve Israel's image abroad, to justify its actions, and defend it in world opinion. It is a public diplomacy effort undertaken by Israeli government officers, or individuals in target countries (public or private efforts; group or individual efforts). Israel portrays itself as fighting on two fronts: against the Palestinians/Arabs and world opinion. The latter is dealt with hasbara. The premise of hasbara is that Israel's problems are a matter of better propaganda, and not one of an underlying unjust situation.[1]


Hasbara Campus Manual

A Hasbara manual for students to use on US univesity campuses is now available online[2]. A summary of the techniques is provided from page 31 onwards:

Propaganda is used by those who want to communicate in ways that engage the emotions and downplay rationality, in an attempt to promote a certain message.

The manual goes on to describe seven propaganda techniques:


Name calling: through the careful use of words, then name calling technique links a person or an idea to a negative symbol.

Glittering generality: Simply put, glittering generality is name calling in reverse. Instead of trying to attach negative meanings to ideas or people, glittering generalities use positive phrases, which the audience are attached to, in order to lend positive image to things. Words such as "freedom", "civilization",…

Transfer: Transfer involves taking some of the prestige and authority of one concept and applying it to another. For example, a speaker might decide to speak in front of a United Nations flag, in an attempt to gain legitimacy for himself or his idea.

Testimonial: Testimonial means enlisting the support of somebody admired or famous to endorse and ideal or campaign.

Plain folks: The plain folks technique attempts to convince the listener that the speaker is a 'regular guy', who is trust-worthy because the are like 'you or me'.

Fear: Stressing that ignoring the message will likely lead to war, terrorism[3]

Bandwagon: Suggest that the stated position is mainstream and use polls to suggest this. [4]


Other hasbara efforts

Nation Branding
The Israeli government has contracted with several international PR companies to improve its image in the US, Europe and Canada. In the UK, Acanchi was hired to work on Israel's nation branding[5]. Saatchi and Saatchi acknowledged that it works with the Israelis free of charge on the re-branding effort.[6] Haaretz also revealed that it attempted to hire a Norwegian PR company for the same purposes.

Cultural Event exposure
Part of the efforts to improve Israel's image abroad is to increase the number of cultural events at which Israeli artists are present. Israeli writers, film makers, dance groups, etc., are subsidized by the Israeli government so that these groups can go on tour. Artists receiving funds to represent Israel abroad are paid, and they are also required to sign a contract requiring them to comment positively about Israel.[7] The Batsheva Dance Company tours Europe and North America as the "cultural ambassadors for Israel".[8] The company is mostly funded by the Israeli government and the Rothschild family.

Production of Propaganda films
Several films have been produced to either portray Israel in a good light or to portray Palestinians/Muslims in a negative light.[9] Geert Wilders, the right-wing Dutch politician and pro-Israel hawk, has been on tour to present Fitna, his anti-Islam film. The organizers of the events where Wilders spoke and showed the film was Ruder Finn, a leading PR company that has long represented Israel abroad.[10]

Pink-washing Israel
PR companies hired by Israel have taken prominent gays on tour to Israel, and also taken prominent Israeli gays on tour to Europe and the United States. These efforts attempt to show that Israel is a tolerant and gay-friendly society.[11]

Proponents and Practicioners

Elias Buchwald
Frank Luntz – PR specialist working for Israel
5W_Public_Relations – PR company hired by Israel
Ruder Finn – principal PR company hired by Israel; an early paid registered lobbyist for Israel[12]

Hasbara - SourceWatch < click

~

the actual MANUAL

http://www.middle-east-info.org/take/wujshasbara.pdf - click




i do not like being propagandized and manipulated.
never did.
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#77
it was titus' doing...God allowed it...

Isaiah 10
5 “Woe to Assyria, the rod of My anger And the staff in whose hand is My indignation.6 I will send him against an ungodly nation, And against the people of My wrath
I will give him charge, To seize the spoil, to take the prey,
And to tread them down like the mire of the streets.7 yet he does not mean so, Nor does his heart think so;
But it is in his heart to destroy, And cut off not a few nations.

Isaiah 42
23 Who among you will give ear to this? Who will listen and hear for the time to come?24 Who gave Jacob for plunder, and Israel to the robbers? Was it not the Lord,
He against whom we have sinned? For they would not walk in His ways,
Nor were they obedient to His law.25 Therefore He has poured on him the fury of His anger And the strength of battle; It has set him on fire all around,
Yet he did not know; And it burned him, Yet he did not take it to heart.




Daniel 1
1 In the third year of the reign of Jehoiakim king of Judah, Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon came to Jerusalem and besieged it. 2 And the Lord gave Jehoiakim king of Judah into his hand, with some of the articles of the house of God, which he carried into the land of Shinar to the house of his god; and he brought the articles into the treasure house of his god.


Matthew 23


31 “Therefore you are witnesses against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers’ guilt. 33 Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell? 34 Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city, 35 that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.
 
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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#78
actually it wasn't...jerusalem was desolate...the rest of judea was mostly intact...

the history is a long story...but to make it short...the jews did not lose their land in AD 70...what happened in AD 70 has a different significance...

if land claims are the subject then the bar kokhba revolt is the historical event you are looking for...though even then jews were not completely expelled from the land...

it is so much more complicated than 'AD 70 was 586 BC all over again'
rachel...i was referring to as far as The Lord was concerned.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#79
it was titus' doing...God allowed it...
allowed it....seriously.
what kind of exegesis is this rachel.

HE DECREED IT.

why dont we believe The Bible.

Daniel 9
24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Isaiah 10:22
For though your people Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will return. Destruction is decreed, overflowing with righteousness.

Matthew 24:2
"Do you see all these things?" he asked. "Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down."

Mark 13:2
"Do you see all these great buildings?" replied Jesus. "Not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down."

Luke 19:44
They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God's coming to you."


 
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Abiding

Guest
#80
all of the above...muslim opposition to jews and to americans goes much further back than 1948...
You make good points but they sometimes havnt anything to do with
the intent of the post your responding to.

I could say before the early part of the 20th century jews and muslims and
christians lived together pretty much at peace.

And their opposition to america had more to do with american policy and our deeds
than for religious reasons. My point is that none of them really hate americans
just our government, and if there was religious reasons then its again for our national policies
and bedfellows.