Israel

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,164
1,794
113
"Part of the people of Israel remain blind until [...]"

There is an important nuance that you are missing. A nuance is not an "overcomplication", it is an important context. You can choose to ignore the correct context, or you can appreciate the context for what it is.

The verse does not say "part of the people of Israel", it states "Israel in part". There is an important distinction between "of Israel" and "all Israel". If you don't understand the nuance, the verse that states "not all of Israel are Israel" won't make sense.

"All Israel shall be saved" is not saying "All of the people of Israel shall be saved."
What is the nuance you refer to? If you have a point to make about this go ahead and make it.

Read further up in the chapter... and the rest were blinded. Paul calls both the blinded and the unblinded 'Israel' in this chapter. He is referring to those who are beloved for the sakes of the fathers as 'Israel', even those who are enemies for the sake of the Gospel.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
he saw that mankind would not choose to serve him, which prompted him to choose a large portion of those that would not choose him, to make them holy and without blame (Eph 1:4) by predetermining them to be adopted as his children
Strange corn.

You want to go back to OT and cite the nation of Israel? Ok...

All "Israel" will be saved, but not all jews will be in that number:

Romans 11:26
“And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:”

Looks like all Jews go to Heaven, but...

Romans 9:6 Context
3For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: 4Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; 5Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. 6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Only those who lay hold on that promise shall enter in. We gentiles have opportunity to lay hold on that promise and become the seed of Abraham:


Galatians 3:29 Context
26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
 
Apr 15, 2022
255
54
28
[But with brackets around both . [ ] Then we know who is making the comment.]

[[OK, I will change my future posts as you've suggested it. Is this, OK? ]]
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,164
1,794
113
If you want to believe a lie, go ahead, and do so, but just let me add that the main purpose of why Israel was raised was to bring forth a Savior who would save the world beginning with Israel. Those who chose Christ were saved and those who rejected Him were lost.

The Jews for the most part rejected Him, and, in the end, they killed Him. The Lord judged them as prophesied (Mat. 24:1-2) in AD 70. The rod of His anger was this time the Romans, therefore Israel as a COVENANT NATION ended forever. God's chosen people today are those who are born again and who have bowed their knees to the Lord. So, I suggest you stop believing in myths and start believing in the truth. Jesus is the Lord of all creation, it began with Him, and ends with Him (Rev. 1:17, 2:8, 22:13).

Lastly, I always use quotation marks when scripture is being quoted. If that confuses you, I wonder if you are confused all the time.
The blindness on Israel lasts until the fulness of the Gentiles comes in. During this time, the Lord is using Gentiles to provoke Israel to jealousy.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
[But with brackets around both . [ ] Then we know who is making the comment.]

[[OK, I will change my future posts as you've suggested it. Is this, OK? ]]

I can't tell you how annoying the brackets are. I just copy paste it. Probably an easier way but the only one I'm smart enough to figure out so far. Can't teach an old dog new tricks, at least not this one.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
Yes.

They must acknowledge their need to be cleansed by the blood of the same Jesus that their father's mocked and ridiculed 2000 years ago.

Jesus was not a failure by his work on the cross. The sins of those that his Father gave to him were cleansed by is blood on the cross by redeeming them from their sins. Jesus gave them the security of eternal heaven by saying that he would not lose any of them, but would raise them up at the last day, saying from the cross "it is finished".

N o person, outside of those that he died for on the cross, will he cleanse by his blood.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
Strange corn.

You want to go back to OT and cite the nation of Israel? Ok...

All "Israel" will be saved, but not all jews will be in that number:

Romans 11:26
“And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:”

Looks like all Jews go to Heaven, but...

Romans 9:6 Context
3For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: 4Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; 5Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. 6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Only those who lay hold on that promise shall enter in. We gentiles have opportunity to lay hold on that promise and become the seed of Abraham:


Galatians 3:29 Context
26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

God changed Jacob's name to be no more called Jacob, but to be called Israel (Gen 32:28). Jacob as Israel includes all of God's elect, which are comprised of people from every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation.

Romans 11:26. All Israel is Jacob as Israel, and some of the "nation of Israel" are not included in Jacob/Israel.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
Strange corn.

You want to go back to OT and cite the nation of Israel? Ok...

All "Israel" will be saved, but not all jews will be in that number:

Romans 11:26
“And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:”

Looks like all Jews go to Heaven, but...

Romans 9:6 Context
3For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: 4Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; 5Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. 6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Only those who lay hold on that promise shall enter in. We gentiles have opportunity to lay hold on that promise and become the seed of Abraham:


Galatians 3:29 Context
26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
There is also the remnant of the household of Jacob as Israel, which will never turn away from the knowledge of what actually Jesus accomplished on the cross revealed by the righteousness of God.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
[QUOTE="ForestGreenCook, post: 4952565, member: 272369"

N o person, outside of those that he died for on the cross, will he cleanse by his blood.[/QUOTE]


He died once and for all. Whether they accept that is up to them. His blood is sufficient. Anything else is false teaching.
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
12,689
1,103
113
What never made any sense to me about the Israel thing is that most Christian denominations teach that Christians are morally obligated to support Israel but seeing as how they rejected the covenant of jesus, wouldn't that make them apostates?
 
Jan 14, 2021
1,599
526
113
seeing as how they rejected the covenant of jesus, wouldn't that make them apostates?
Yes, the initial Israelites that broke the faith by rejecting Jesus can be counted as apostates because they rejected the rightful head of the priesthood.

Depending on how we define "apostate", the term wouldn't necessarily apply to their antiChrist descendants because they were never part of the true faith to begin with.

The antiChrist movement started by the Pharisees can be described as the birth of an apostatic religion.

What never made any sense to me about the Israel thing is that most Christian denominations teach that Christians are morally obligated to support Israel
I haven't seen that personally, but yes, I agree that it makes no sense. AntiChrists should not be given preferential support over fellow Christians.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
What never made any sense to me about the Israel thing is that most Christian denominations teach that Christians are morally obligated to support Israel but seeing as how they rejected the covenant of jesus, wouldn't that make them apostates?

Romans 11 has already told us, they were blinded for a time but would be restored.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
What never made any sense to me about the Israel thing is that most Christian denominations teach that Christians are morally obligated to support Israel but seeing as how they rejected the covenant of jesus, wouldn't that make them apostates?
Not all of them rejected Jesus. Most of the Disciples and much of the early Church were Jewish.
 

soberxp

Senior Member
May 3, 2018
2,511
482
83
Don't you think Israelis are more look like Romans now?Especially some people's big noses
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
I mean, why do modern Israelis have a big Roman nose and then claim to be Israelis? I'm confused
Perhaps we should be asking why Romans have big Jewish noses. :confused::unsure:
 

soberxp

Senior Member
May 3, 2018
2,511
482
83
Perhaps we should be asking why Romans have big Jewish noses. :confused::unsure:
I think Israelis should be look closer to Arabs than Romans.But I do not rule out the situation of the intermarriage between Israelis and Romans