Israel
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A catch-22...If you were to challenge your opponent for the sake of correctness, you will have an argument on your hands.
If you don't, it makes your opponent look like a winner because he run you off. It seems that either way, he wins.
Don't be fooled; pride will force you to attempt to win, but you will not be right.
Leave them alone & let the thread die. Don't give them the satisfaction of pulling you into the middle of a dispute.
If you don't, it makes your opponent look like a winner because he run you off. It seems that either way, he wins.
Don't be fooled; pride will force you to attempt to win, but you will not be right.
Leave them alone & let the thread die. Don't give them the satisfaction of pulling you into the middle of a dispute.
K
Please stop adding quotes to every post, it's getting confusing as to who is saying what. Answer each post and we won't get in a tangle here. That's one.
Paul was talking about future Israel. Read Romans again, future tense. That's two.
I know how to read a Bible, I don't need to read the internet to know what's in the Bible. You can drop the mouthy comments, they are immature and uncalled for.
God has promises that have yet to be fulfilled to Israel. Either than or you are calling God a liar because He said "everlasting". Maybe you need to stop believing replacement heresy and read what the Bible actually says.
Paul was talking about future Israel. Read Romans again, future tense. That's two.
I know how to read a Bible, I don't need to read the internet to know what's in the Bible. You can drop the mouthy comments, they are immature and uncalled for.
God has promises that have yet to be fulfilled to Israel. Either than or you are calling God a liar because He said "everlasting". Maybe you need to stop believing replacement heresy and read what the Bible actually says.
I too believe Israel as a Nation will surely come to Christ before the End of Time. When it will happen is uncertain, but certainly it will happen. Most probably, Israel's Acceptance of Jesus Christ is after the Anti-Christ and before the Millenium.
From: https://sljinstitute.net/the-prophets/zechariah/the-conversion-of-israel/
"When I look at the text of Scripture and read “And they shall mourn for him as one mourneth for his only son,” I realize the tremendous transformation that is to take place in Israel. And all of the Abrahams, and all of the Isaacs, and all of the others, and as a nation as a whole, they shall collapse before our Lord Jesus Christ, crying out, “Oh my God, we have crucified our king and our Lord.” And Zechariah describes the tremendous mourning that takes place. Now you know in the book of the prophet Isaiah, we have the exact words that they shall utter, for we have Israel’s penitential confession, in the 53rd chapter of the book of Isaiah. And this is what they shall say at that day,
“Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed? For he has grown up before him as a tender plant, as a root out of dry ground: he had no form nor comeliness; and when we saw him, there was no beauty in him that we should desire him. He was despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we have been healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.”
Oh my God, why have we done it? This is Israel’s sentiment, in that day. Don’t you look forward to that day? I think I’m going to contribute a few tears to that too. They’re going to be tears of bitter happiness, for Israel. They’re going to be tears of happiness, so far as I’m concerned. Now Zechariah describes, in the remainder of the chapter, this mourning that is not only national, but individual and personal. You know when I read this chapter, and this is the last thing I’m going to say to you this morning, when I read this chapter, the prayer that I offer by my bed side, which I offered last night and this morning, is “Oh that I might have some of the tenderness of heart that Israel shall have in that day,” for it seems to me that this is only the magnificent expression of what should be individually true of us when we come to know him, when we realize that it is we, who have crucified our Lord Jesus. It is we who have responded in this way in our own individual lives, until the day when he poured upon us the spirit of grace and supplications.
How may I have a heart like this? Well I know first, that it arises from the divine operation. Only God can make this stony heart of mine like wax. Only he can melt the iceberg of my soul. And it is God’s work. And I know too, as I look at this, that apparently it’s wrought by a faith look at the pierced son of God. For it’s when Israel sees him as the on who has been slain for them, that this great transformation takes place in their hearts. It was on old preacher who said that we ought to look at the cross until all that is on the cross is in our hearts. And this is the thing, it seems to me, whereby God brings us to the place that we respond as Israel responds, and come to know him in the way that Israel shall come to know him. It is only as I see him, and the spirit of God pours upon me, this spirit of grace and supplications. And the evidence will be found in the fact that I shall mourn for my sin before God too, in the intense way that they do.
Someone has said the eyes have been given for two purposes. Eyes are given to see with, and eyes are given to weep with. Have you looked oft to the cross? Have you looked at our Lord Jesus as the one who died for you? Have you seen him as Israel shall see him in that day, as the Lord Jehovah, who so loved them that as with Joseph, he wept that they might come to him? Have you thought of him at the right hand of God, as desirous from his inmost being that you respond to him? And have you come to him? You who are children in this audience, have you put your faith in Jesus Christ? You young people, have you put your trust in Christ? And you adults, is it really personal with you? Do you know him personally? Have you said, “Thank you Lord for giving Jesus Christ to die for me, I take him as my personal Savior”? I wish you’d forget about me. I wish you’d think about the cross. And I wish you’d put your trust in him. And then I hope the spirit of God, as you look at the crucified Savior, shall so move your heart, that you shall be affected by what he has done for you. Shall we stand for the benediction.
[Prayer] Father we thank Thee for this wonderful event that we have been considering, when Israel shall look upon him whom they have pierced. And oh Father, we too are guilty. Wilt Thou melt our cold hearts, and touch us as Thou shalt touch them. And enable us oh God, with the sense of relationship to him. And out of the love and gratitude, which the spirit gives, may we serve him acceptably. May Thy blessing go with us as we part. In Jesus’ name. Amen."
From: https://sljinstitute.net/the-prophets/zechariah/the-conversion-of-israel/
"When I look at the text of Scripture and read “And they shall mourn for him as one mourneth for his only son,” I realize the tremendous transformation that is to take place in Israel. And all of the Abrahams, and all of the Isaacs, and all of the others, and as a nation as a whole, they shall collapse before our Lord Jesus Christ, crying out, “Oh my God, we have crucified our king and our Lord.” And Zechariah describes the tremendous mourning that takes place. Now you know in the book of the prophet Isaiah, we have the exact words that they shall utter, for we have Israel’s penitential confession, in the 53rd chapter of the book of Isaiah. And this is what they shall say at that day,
“Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed? For he has grown up before him as a tender plant, as a root out of dry ground: he had no form nor comeliness; and when we saw him, there was no beauty in him that we should desire him. He was despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we have been healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.”
Oh my God, why have we done it? This is Israel’s sentiment, in that day. Don’t you look forward to that day? I think I’m going to contribute a few tears to that too. They’re going to be tears of bitter happiness, for Israel. They’re going to be tears of happiness, so far as I’m concerned. Now Zechariah describes, in the remainder of the chapter, this mourning that is not only national, but individual and personal. You know when I read this chapter, and this is the last thing I’m going to say to you this morning, when I read this chapter, the prayer that I offer by my bed side, which I offered last night and this morning, is “Oh that I might have some of the tenderness of heart that Israel shall have in that day,” for it seems to me that this is only the magnificent expression of what should be individually true of us when we come to know him, when we realize that it is we, who have crucified our Lord Jesus. It is we who have responded in this way in our own individual lives, until the day when he poured upon us the spirit of grace and supplications.
How may I have a heart like this? Well I know first, that it arises from the divine operation. Only God can make this stony heart of mine like wax. Only he can melt the iceberg of my soul. And it is God’s work. And I know too, as I look at this, that apparently it’s wrought by a faith look at the pierced son of God. For it’s when Israel sees him as the on who has been slain for them, that this great transformation takes place in their hearts. It was on old preacher who said that we ought to look at the cross until all that is on the cross is in our hearts. And this is the thing, it seems to me, whereby God brings us to the place that we respond as Israel responds, and come to know him in the way that Israel shall come to know him. It is only as I see him, and the spirit of God pours upon me, this spirit of grace and supplications. And the evidence will be found in the fact that I shall mourn for my sin before God too, in the intense way that they do.
Someone has said the eyes have been given for two purposes. Eyes are given to see with, and eyes are given to weep with. Have you looked oft to the cross? Have you looked at our Lord Jesus as the one who died for you? Have you seen him as Israel shall see him in that day, as the Lord Jehovah, who so loved them that as with Joseph, he wept that they might come to him? Have you thought of him at the right hand of God, as desirous from his inmost being that you respond to him? And have you come to him? You who are children in this audience, have you put your faith in Jesus Christ? You young people, have you put your trust in Christ? And you adults, is it really personal with you? Do you know him personally? Have you said, “Thank you Lord for giving Jesus Christ to die for me, I take him as my personal Savior”? I wish you’d forget about me. I wish you’d think about the cross. And I wish you’d put your trust in him. And then I hope the spirit of God, as you look at the crucified Savior, shall so move your heart, that you shall be affected by what he has done for you. Shall we stand for the benediction.
[Prayer] Father we thank Thee for this wonderful event that we have been considering, when Israel shall look upon him whom they have pierced. And oh Father, we too are guilty. Wilt Thou melt our cold hearts, and touch us as Thou shalt touch them. And enable us oh God, with the sense of relationship to him. And out of the love and gratitude, which the spirit gives, may we serve him acceptably. May Thy blessing go with us as we part. In Jesus’ name. Amen."
If you want to believe a lie, go ahead, and do so, but just let me add that the main purpose of why Israel was raised was to bring forth a Savior who would save the world beginning with Israel. Those who chose Christ were saved and those who rejected Him were lost.
The Jews for the most part rejected Him, and, in the end, they killed Him. The Lord judged them as prophesied (Mat. 24:1-2) in AD 70. The rod of His anger was this time the Romans, therefore Israel as a COVENANT NATION ended forever. God's chosen people today are those who are born again and who have bowed their knees to the Lord. So, I suggest you stop believing in myths and start believing in the truth. Jesus is the Lord of all creation, it began with Him, and ends with Him (Rev. 1:17, 2:8, 22:13).
Lastly, I always use quotation marks when scripture is being quoted. If that confuses you, I wonder if you are confused all the time. 🤭
The Jews for the most part rejected Him, and, in the end, they killed Him. The Lord judged them as prophesied (Mat. 24:1-2) in AD 70. The rod of His anger was this time the Romans, therefore Israel as a COVENANT NATION ended forever. God's chosen people today are those who are born again and who have bowed their knees to the Lord. So, I suggest you stop believing in myths and start believing in the truth. Jesus is the Lord of all creation, it began with Him, and ends with Him (Rev. 1:17, 2:8, 22:13).
Lastly, I always use quotation marks when scripture is being quoted. If that confuses you, I wonder if you are confused all the time. 🤭
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"Part of the people of Israel remain blind until [...]"
There is an important nuance that you are missing. A nuance is not an "overcomplication", it is an important context. You can choose to ignore the correct context, or you can appreciate the context for what it is.
The verse does not say "part of the people of Israel", it states "Israel in part". There is an important distinction between "of Israel" and "all Israel". If you don't understand the nuance, the verse that states "not all of Israel are Israel" won't make sense.
"All Israel shall be saved" is not saying "All of the people of Israel shall be saved."
There is an important nuance that you are missing. A nuance is not an "overcomplication", it is an important context. You can choose to ignore the correct context, or you can appreciate the context for what it is.
The verse does not say "part of the people of Israel", it states "Israel in part". There is an important distinction between "of Israel" and "all Israel". If you don't understand the nuance, the verse that states "not all of Israel are Israel" won't make sense.
"All Israel shall be saved" is not saying "All of the people of Israel shall be saved."
K
Then God lied when He said everlasting, got ya.
Abraham and his descendants will permanently inherit the full extent of the promised land as an “everlasting possession” (Ge. 15:18-21, 17:8). This space is far larger than Israel currently occupies
The prophets foretold of a future time that they would dwell in the land securely, without fear of attack (Isa. 32:18). FUTURE
God not only promises Abraham lots of descendants, but that the nation as well as Abraham’s name would be “great” (Ge. 12:2). The prophets describe a day when Jerusalem will be a praise in the earth and everyone will be in awe at the glory of God that clearly rests on her (Isa. 61:9, 62:1-7). FUTURE
Jesus’ birth through the line of David was a big part of this fulfillment, but the day of full salvation/blessing/restoration for the nations hasn’t yet dawned. When Jesus establishes His kingdom on earth as the Jewish King ruling from Jerusalem, the nations of the earth will be more blessed than they ever dreamed possible! FUTURE
We need to be firmly aware that the Abrahamic covenant is NOT the same as the Mosaic covenant (the Law given at Sinai), aka the “old covenant” that was superseded by the new covenant. It’s much older and deeper. Most significantly, the Mosaic covenant is conditional, but the Abrahamic covenant is unconditional. It’s secure no matter what because it’s based on God’s faithfulness to Himself, not anything man does or doesn’t do.
Jeremiah 31 makes the distinction between the new covenant and the Mosaic (not Abrahamic) covenant explicit:
“Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt… I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people… they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”
(Je. 31:31-34)
The new covenant is God’s way of making Israel righteous so He can fulfill the Abrahamic covenant. Like Paul says in Romans 11:26 that “All Israel will be saved,” God says to Jeremiah that “they shall all know Me.”
“Thus says the LORD, who gives the sun for light by day and the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night, who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar— the LORD of hosts is his name: ‘If this fixed order departs from before me, declares the LORD, then shall the offspring of Israel cease from being a nation before me forever.’ Thus says the LORD: ‘If the heavens above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth below can be explored, then I will cast off all the offspring of Israel for all that they have done, declares the LORD.'”
(Je. 31:35-37)
Replacement theology argues that because the majority of Israel rejected Jesus, God not only judged them with the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD but has permanently divorced them from being His people. In Jeremiah, God rejects this in the strongest terms, saying that He will never cast off Israel because of their sin.
“And I will make for you a great name, like the name of the great ones of the earth. And I will appoint a place for my people Israel and will plant them, so that they may dwell in their own place and be disturbed no more. …your house and your kingdom shall be made sure forever before me. Your throne shall be established forever.”
(2 Samuel 7:9-10, 16)
I'm not talking about quotation marks, I'm talking about quoting peoples posts. It seems it is you who is confused.
Abraham and his descendants will permanently inherit the full extent of the promised land as an “everlasting possession” (Ge. 15:18-21, 17:8). This space is far larger than Israel currently occupies
The prophets foretold of a future time that they would dwell in the land securely, without fear of attack (Isa. 32:18). FUTURE
God not only promises Abraham lots of descendants, but that the nation as well as Abraham’s name would be “great” (Ge. 12:2). The prophets describe a day when Jerusalem will be a praise in the earth and everyone will be in awe at the glory of God that clearly rests on her (Isa. 61:9, 62:1-7). FUTURE
Jesus’ birth through the line of David was a big part of this fulfillment, but the day of full salvation/blessing/restoration for the nations hasn’t yet dawned. When Jesus establishes His kingdom on earth as the Jewish King ruling from Jerusalem, the nations of the earth will be more blessed than they ever dreamed possible! FUTURE
We need to be firmly aware that the Abrahamic covenant is NOT the same as the Mosaic covenant (the Law given at Sinai), aka the “old covenant” that was superseded by the new covenant. It’s much older and deeper. Most significantly, the Mosaic covenant is conditional, but the Abrahamic covenant is unconditional. It’s secure no matter what because it’s based on God’s faithfulness to Himself, not anything man does or doesn’t do.
Jeremiah 31 makes the distinction between the new covenant and the Mosaic (not Abrahamic) covenant explicit:
“Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt… I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people… they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”
(Je. 31:31-34)
The new covenant is God’s way of making Israel righteous so He can fulfill the Abrahamic covenant. Like Paul says in Romans 11:26 that “All Israel will be saved,” God says to Jeremiah that “they shall all know Me.”
“Thus says the LORD, who gives the sun for light by day and the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night, who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar— the LORD of hosts is his name: ‘If this fixed order departs from before me, declares the LORD, then shall the offspring of Israel cease from being a nation before me forever.’ Thus says the LORD: ‘If the heavens above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth below can be explored, then I will cast off all the offspring of Israel for all that they have done, declares the LORD.'”
(Je. 31:35-37)
Replacement theology argues that because the majority of Israel rejected Jesus, God not only judged them with the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD but has permanently divorced them from being His people. In Jeremiah, God rejects this in the strongest terms, saying that He will never cast off Israel because of their sin.
“And I will make for you a great name, like the name of the great ones of the earth. And I will appoint a place for my people Israel and will plant them, so that they may dwell in their own place and be disturbed no more. …your house and your kingdom shall be made sure forever before me. Your throne shall be established forever.”
(2 Samuel 7:9-10, 16)
I'm not talking about quotation marks, I'm talking about quoting peoples posts. It seems it is you who is confused.
Any time you press "reply", the website places the text you are replying to in an inlaid "quote box". The formatting for an inlaid "quote" text is (quote="user_name, post: number, member: number) _some text_ (/quote), but instead of round brackets, square brackets are used. You can see these text flags if you edit a post, or initially when you are writing a post. In the most basic explanation, there is a square bracket flag that says "start of text" and then "end of text"
There are some browsers like Lynx and W3M that render everything on a webpage as text. If you are using one of these browsers, you may not even realize that the format is off.
You aren't the only user that has had the quote formatting issue here. Anyone can use the preview function to check their posts or go into their post within the timelimit and fix the issue by checking for misplaced "[/quote]" flags that may be in the start of the posts.
An example is that (/quote) in the line above. If you don't change it to round brackets or otherwise change the text so that it is not a flag, it will mess up your replying post and make it seem like you are stating this line.
The webdesign team can fix this by adding checks to clean the input text when the reply function is called.
So to recap, there are 5+ users in this thread that have published posts with the same formatting error (including anyone that replies to this post without removing the square bracket red /quote portion above). This is a webdesign issue.
There are some browsers like Lynx and W3M that render everything on a webpage as text. If you are using one of these browsers, you may not even realize that the format is off.
You aren't the only user that has had the quote formatting issue here. Anyone can use the preview function to check their posts or go into their post within the timelimit and fix the issue by checking for misplaced "[/quote]" flags that may be in the start of the posts.
An example is that (/quote) in the line above. If you don't change it to round brackets or otherwise change the text so that it is not a flag, it will mess up your replying post and make it seem like you are stating this line.
The webdesign team can fix this by adding checks to clean the input text when the reply function is called.
So to recap, there are 5+ users in this thread that have published posts with the same formatting error (including anyone that replies to this post without removing the square bracket red /quote portion above). This is a webdesign issue.
Yes, He does.
He purposes to give us a second chance and a choice. Love cannot be forced.
He purposes to give us a second chance and a choice. Love cannot be forced.
God did give mankind the freedom to choose how he wants to live his life here on earth, and God saw that none of mankind choose to seek him, no, not one. (Psalms 14:2-3). By God's foreknowledge he saw that mankind would not choose to serve him, which prompted him to choose a large portion of those that would not choose him, to make them holy and without blame (Eph 1:4) by predetermining them to be adopted as his children (Eph 1:5) and gave them to his Son to redeem them from their sins on the cross (John 6:39)
We love him because he first loved us (1 John 4:19) by choosing us to adopt as his children. (Eph 1:5). Malachi 1:2-3 - I have loved you saith the Lord, Yet ye say, wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the Lord, Yet I loved Jacob, (Jacob is representative of God's elect [Rom 9:11] and I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.
Jacob's name was changed, by God, to be called Israel (Gen 32:28). 1 John 4:10 - Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
" flags that may be in the start of the posts.
An example is that (/quote) in the line above. If you don't change it to round brackets or otherwise change the text so that it is not a flag, it will mess up your replying post and make it seem like you are stating this line.
The webdesign team can fix this by adding checks to clean the input text when the reply function is called.
So to recap, there are 5+ users in this thread that have published posts with the same formatting error (including anyone that replies to this post without removing the square bracket red /quote portion above). This is a webdesign issue.[/QUOTE]
I had noidea. Thank you.
An example is that (/quote) in the line above. If you don't change it to round brackets or otherwise change the text so that it is not a flag, it will mess up your replying post and make it seem like you are stating this line.
The webdesign team can fix this by adding checks to clean the input text when the reply function is called.
So to recap, there are 5+ users in this thread that have published posts with the same formatting error (including anyone that replies to this post without removing the square bracket red /quote portion above). This is a webdesign issue.[/QUOTE]
I had noidea. Thank you.
