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[h=3]Romans 14[/h]New Living Translation (NLT)
[h=3]The Danger of Criticism[/h]14 Accept other believers who are weak in faith, and don’t argue with them about what they think is right or wrong. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For instance, one person believes it’s all right to eat anything. But another believer with a sensitive conscience will eat only vegetables. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Those who feel free to eat anything must not look down on those who don’t. And those who don’t eat certain foods must not condemn those who do, for God has accepted them. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Who are you to condemn someone else’s servants? Their own master will judge whether they stand or fall. And with the Lord’s help, they will stand and receive his approval
[h=3]The Danger of Criticism[/h]14 Accept other believers who are weak in faith, and don’t argue with them about what they think is right or wrong. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For instance, one person believes it’s all right to eat anything. But another believer with a sensitive conscience will eat only vegetables. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Those who feel free to eat anything must not look down on those who don’t. And those who don’t eat certain foods must not condemn those who do, for God has accepted them. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Who are you to condemn someone else’s servants? Their own master will judge whether they stand or fall. And with the Lord’s help, they will stand and receive his approval
2 Corinthians 10:6and being ready to punish all disobedience when your obedience is fulfilled.
I know whom is for me and thus i am safe in his arms, because God ahs assured me that no weapon formed against shall ever prosper and that since God is for me no one can be against, even though they may try, because noone can snatch me out of God's hand. I hope you can say the same for only yuor Spirit knows and God's Love you man for than you might know
I know whom is for me and thus i am safe in his arms, because God ahs assured me that no weapon formed against shall ever prosper and that since God is for me no one can be against, even though they may try, because noone can snatch me out of God's hand. I hope you can say the same for only yuor Spirit knows and God's Love you man for than you might know
I am curious where did
Originally Posted by Laodicea
It is true we are saved by grace through faith But, the result of that is good works.
ever say anything here that it is of self?
ever say anything here that it is of self?
And homward, Jesus also told us that: Matthew 9:22 "But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour."
homward, believing that grace is what saves causes many to not put their full self into their salvation. That idea is a misconception of Paul's teachings. That sort of idea is what Peter meant when he said, 2 Peter 3:15-16 "And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction."
It does not matter if you understand it expressed that way, that is beside the point. We must say things in an unambiguous way that babes in Christ can grasp without misunderstanding and twisting.
Yes, you can state it that way because you know what faith requires of you. But there is a good reason why it was stated the way it was in the actual verse you are addressing.
What grace does is this, Romans 4:16 "For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace, to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed, not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all."
Being by grace does not take all works away as though not required, but the grace takes that wall of separation down which formerly existed by the Covenant of that Old Law. And it is only such works which were done by a man's own estimation of how well he was keeping them, which grace replaces.
It in no way replaces the necessity of our having works after the model Christ patterned for us to follow his footsteps closely.
The man on the cross beside Jesus performed one work of faith when he was promised by Jesus that he would be with him in paradise. But PS, paradise is only where Adam was. It is not the gift of immortality upon one who has put on incorruptibly by having so made the spirit of the mind of Christ the spirit of his mind.
That man will be under the kingdom rule in the thousand year reign of Christ's kingdom. That is why Jesus did not tell him he would be with him in the kingdom of God. For until the thousand years are ended and this earth totally cleansed, this earth will not be yet in the kingdom of heaven. And earth is where that paradise will be until that time that the whole earth is restored to God's kingdom.
Paul saying he was caught up to paradise is because Paul was not yet holy to enter into God's kingdom. And this was no doubt a vision wherewith he was totally consumed.
The following is on earth even as that tree of life was there on this earth with Adam, Revelation 2:7 "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God."
Adam clearly had not yet been given to eat of that tree of life else Genesis 3:22 makes no sense. God would have had to see that Adam was incorruptible before God would bless Adam to eat of that tree of life. And it is impossible for those who have achieved incorruptibility to sin. That is why God only blesses those that have achieved that incorruptible state with immortality.
1 Corinthians 9:25 "And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible."
Adam was given dominion the same as God's elect are now being given dominion so that they can replace Adam. And they must achieve that incorruptible crown of righteousness which guarantees they can never fall to sin.
Adam quite clearly never achieved that and he was in Paradise here on earth. That is where the man who died alongside Jesus will also be, here on earth and going through the completion to holiness along with that great multitude that come out of the great tribulation, where also most of the faithful dead before Christ will be resurrected to.
What grace does is this, Romans 4:16 "For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace, to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed, not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all."
Being by grace does not take all works away as though not required, but the grace takes that wall of separation down which formerly existed by the Covenant of that Old Law. And it is only such works which were done by a man's own estimation of how well he was keeping them, which grace replaces.
It in no way replaces the necessity of our having works after the model Christ patterned for us to follow his footsteps closely.
The man on the cross beside Jesus performed one work of faith when he was promised by Jesus that he would be with him in paradise. But PS, paradise is only where Adam was. It is not the gift of immortality upon one who has put on incorruptibly by having so made the spirit of the mind of Christ the spirit of his mind.
That man will be under the kingdom rule in the thousand year reign of Christ's kingdom. That is why Jesus did not tell him he would be with him in the kingdom of God. For until the thousand years are ended and this earth totally cleansed, this earth will not be yet in the kingdom of heaven. And earth is where that paradise will be until that time that the whole earth is restored to God's kingdom.
Paul saying he was caught up to paradise is because Paul was not yet holy to enter into God's kingdom. And this was no doubt a vision wherewith he was totally consumed.
The following is on earth even as that tree of life was there on this earth with Adam, Revelation 2:7 "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God."
Adam clearly had not yet been given to eat of that tree of life else Genesis 3:22 makes no sense. God would have had to see that Adam was incorruptible before God would bless Adam to eat of that tree of life. And it is impossible for those who have achieved incorruptibility to sin. That is why God only blesses those that have achieved that incorruptible state with immortality.
1 Corinthians 9:25 "And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible."
Adam was given dominion the same as God's elect are now being given dominion so that they can replace Adam. And they must achieve that incorruptible crown of righteousness which guarantees they can never fall to sin.
Adam quite clearly never achieved that and he was in Paradise here on earth. That is where the man who died alongside Jesus will also be, here on earth and going through the completion to holiness along with that great multitude that come out of the great tribulation, where also most of the faithful dead before Christ will be resurrected to.
I like to keep it simple so I will just say:...
Rom 4:16 Therefore it is of (our) faith, that it might be by (God's) grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, (KJV)
Short definition of grace is "unmerited favour."
See Strong
Rom 4:16 Therefore it is of (our) faith, that it might be by (God's) grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, (KJV)
Short definition of grace is "unmerited favour."
See Strong
Yes, I agree with your definition of grace. That is more precisely what it means. But the point is how that unmerited favor is applied to us and it is a lie of Satan that says it applies unconditionally. For that is not at all what the scriptures teach. The scriptures only teach that it was an unmerited favor that God gives us the chance to prove through faith that our hearts are right with God.
And as for Strong's in that verse, the word "of", in the phrase "of faith", is actually the Greek preposition ek', meaning "out of", and thus denoting that salvation comes out of faith.
Now, as for "by" in the phrase "by Grace", that is an error in translation. For the Greek preposition there translated as "by" is kata, meaning "down from", and the opportunity for us to receive salvation "out of" our faith, that opportunity comes down as an undeserved favor from God. It portrays the sense that grace merely enlivens our faith as if by blessing, so that our faith can save us.
And why that is important to know, is that we do not waste all our time thinking that the grace is what does the actual saving of us, and we know to just say thank you for that grace and concentrate on understanding what does.
And as for Strong's in that verse, the word "of", in the phrase "of faith", is actually the Greek preposition ek', meaning "out of", and thus denoting that salvation comes out of faith.
Now, as for "by" in the phrase "by Grace", that is an error in translation. For the Greek preposition there translated as "by" is kata, meaning "down from", and the opportunity for us to receive salvation "out of" our faith, that opportunity comes down as an undeserved favor from God. It portrays the sense that grace merely enlivens our faith as if by blessing, so that our faith can save us.
And why that is important to know, is that we do not waste all our time thinking that the grace is what does the actual saving of us, and we know to just say thank you for that grace and concentrate on understanding what does.
Weymouth New Testament worded it this way: Romans 4:16 "All depends on faith, and for this reason -- that acceptance with God might be an act of pure grace,
17 so that the promise should be made sure to all Abraham's true descendants; not merely to those who are righteous through the Law, but to those who are righteous through a faith like that of Abraham. Thus in the sight of God in whom he believed, who gives life to the dead and makes reference to things that do not exist, as though they did, Abraham is the forefather of all of us. As it is written, <"I have appointed you to be the forefather of many nations.">"
17 so that the promise should be made sure to all Abraham's true descendants; not merely to those who are righteous through the Law, but to those who are righteous through a faith like that of Abraham. Thus in the sight of God in whom he believed, who gives life to the dead and makes reference to things that do not exist, as though they did, Abraham is the forefather of all of us. As it is written, <"I have appointed you to be the forefather of many nations.">"
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I am nothing other than a planter and or waterer of God's miraculous love and I quarantee you it is god that gives the increase to those he has recieved. So we can go all out yes but you, I and all others are only planters and waterers Brother God knows who are his and who are not. I was decieved for many years in the works program claimed as Faith in God
True, but I am speaking about not what I know you know, but how the way we say it appears to babes in Christ that we have an obligation to present things clearly so that they do not get wrong ideas.
And many falsely believe they can drag their feet in the good works of Christ because they have had false preachers tickling their ears and saying it any old way just to fill seats and collection plates.
Grace trumps the works of the Old law or any manner in which man tries on his own.. But grace in no way trumps the works we are to do in Christ after his footsteps. If we do not have those works we die.
And many falsely believe they can drag their feet in the good works of Christ because they have had false preachers tickling their ears and saying it any old way just to fill seats and collection plates.
Grace trumps the works of the Old law or any manner in which man tries on his own.. But grace in no way trumps the works we are to do in Christ after his footsteps. If we do not have those works we die.
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L
As I have said to you many times before that if Christ is in us the result will be that we will become commandment keepers. You seem to hate anything to do with commandment keeping, consider these texts.
John 15:4 KJV
(4) Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
Galatians 5:22-25 KJV
(22) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
(23) Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
(24) And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
(25) If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Romans 8:4 KJV
(4) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
John 15:4 KJV
(4) Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
Galatians 5:22-25 KJV
(22) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
(23) Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
(24) And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
(25) If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Romans 8:4 KJV
(4) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
L
Do you people purposely leave out Eph 2:10?
Ephesians 2:8-10 KJV
(8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
(9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.
(10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
So according to this we are created in Christ Jesus for good works. Next time quote the Bible properly. Make sure you quote the Bible as a whole not in part, according to that we are saved by grace through faith.
Ephesians 2:8-10 KJV
(8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
(9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.
(10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
So according to this we are created in Christ Jesus for good works. Next time quote the Bible properly. Make sure you quote the Bible as a whole not in part, according to that we are saved by grace through faith.
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If people were justified by law, it would be by their own merits; but in actual fact we are saved, even though we are unworthy, by God's unmerited favor.
In addition I feel Paul is saying that salvation is for all nations, (Abraham is the father of nations) and not merely those who are under the law i.e Jews.
In addition I feel Paul is saying that salvation is for all nations, (Abraham is the father of nations) and not merely those who are under the law i.e Jews.
L
I do not teach subtle errors. It looks as though the problem is your understanding. The text is plain we are saved by grace through faith. God has made grace freely available to all by Jesus and faith is what lays hold of grace, faith holds the promises of God. If it were not for grace no one could be saved. Christ offered grace to people when He was here and their faith took hold on the grace Christ offered them.