Jesus being Michael the archangel

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Sep 24, 2012
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#84
No problem! If you have a specific question, I would be happy to elaborate. From your post, I thought that it was about whether Michael the archangel was Jesus. That is what I responded to.
I guess I have some questions, but like really direct answers without too much detail might be helpful.

I guess these are my questions:

Is Jesus Michael the archangel?

Is the angel of the Lord Jesus or the Father or the Holy Spirit? (God is the Father, the Son (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit, right? One God but three different Persons?) There might have been a thread made somewhat recently that said that the angel of the Lord was Jesus.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
28,881
2,716
113
#85
I guess I have some questions, but like really direct answers without too much detail might be helpful.

I guess these are my questions:

Is Jesus Michael the archangel?

Is the angel of the Lord Jesus or the Father or the Holy Spirit? (God is the Father, the Son (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit, right? One God but three different Persons?) There might have been a thread made recently that said that the angel of the Lord was Jesus.
No to the first.

I believe the Angel of the Lord is often Jesus pre-incarnate...giving the Word.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
9,677
1,655
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#86
Question: Is Jesus Michael the archangel?
Answer: No, Jesus is not Michael the archangel. Michael the archangel is a created being. Jesus is God having no beginning and no ending, eternal.

Question: Is the angel of the Lord Jesus or the Father or the Holy Spirit? (God is the Father, the Son (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit, right? One God but three different Persons?) There might have been a thread made somewhat recently that said that the angel of the Lord was Jesus.
Answer: Angel of the Lord = An angel sent to speak a message on behalf of the Lord
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,958
1,521
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#88
Do you believe Jesus is...

1. Fully God/fully man?
or
2. Michael the Archangel?

Just state 1 or 2 and not a bunch of blather. Thanks.

I was taught what you are offering. It simply does not pan out.

#2.

Two different questions.

I think Jesus is the prophet, apostle coming after the promise of Melchedik our high priest as the Son of God continually.. the new testament order .Those that brings the word of God as a messenger that some call an angel a Greek word ... . for one one bring the words of another.

Many make the word angel a wonderment and say it is not for what the eyes see, some see it as some sort of unseen protection like a patron saint.

The Son of man is fully man . The the Son of God is fully God without beginning of days or end of spirit life.

He is not a man . Never was never could be.

Big difference between the supernatural without beginning and a creation that is corrupted.

If Jesus is not the lead apostles sent by the father .Than who is the angel that he called His Son ? And why could the Son of man not rebuke the devil if he had the power to do so?

Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually. Hebrews 7: 3

What would be some of the things that you think are necessary that Jesus remain a non messenger of the father.?

Who said Jesus was not the Son as the messenger of the new covenant. "Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee"? If not Jesus than, who? Peter?
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,958
1,521
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#89
Answer: No, Jesus is not Michael the archangel. Michael the archangel is a created being. Jesus is God having no beginning and no ending, eternal.



Answer: Angel of the Lord = An angel sent to speak a message on behalf of the Lord
Jesus as the Son of man is a crested being. End of the real story.

Not literalizing the signified tongue of God Then we can find the meaning in parables..

Answer: Angel of the Lord = An angel sent to speak a message on behalf of the Lord. Three time the unseen Father put his words on the tongue of His prophet and apostle the Son of man Jesus . . as it is written and and again he gave the words as it is written . The father caused the devil to flee. The son of man has no power to rebuke the devil . God is not a man .

Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him. Mathew 4: 10-11

Two fold like all spiritual gifts . They effect the speaker as the gift of prophesying. and the one hearing the word of one un unseen.

Sent the devil away and sent words of encouraged to his prophet Jesus to continue to do the will of the father that dwelt in Jesus's earthen body of death .

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
3,693
3,200
113
#90
The Son of man is fully man . The the Son of God is fully God without beginning of days or end of spirit life.

He is not a man . Never was never could be.
Gary, I love you, but I am really having trouble with this one. Could someone please help me out here?
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
1,703
348
83
#94
Jesus as the Son of man is a crested being. End of the real story.

Not literalizing the signified tongue of God Then we can find the meaning in parables..

Answer: Angel of the Lord = An angel sent to speak a message on behalf of the Lord. Three time the unseen Father put his words on the tongue of His prophet and apostle the Son of man Jesus . . as it is written and and again he gave the words as it is written . The father caused the devil to flee. The son of man has no power to rebuke the devil . God is not a man .

Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him. Mathew 4: 10-11

Two fold like all spiritual gifts . They effect the speaker as the gift of prophesying. and the one hearing the word of one un unseen.

Sent the devil away and sent words of encouraged to his prophet Jesus to continue to do the will of the father that dwelt in Jesus's earthen body of death .

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
No, Jesus is "NOT" as the Son of Man created. The Son of Man according to Isaiah 9:6 "a son is given." Plus in the gospel of John the Son of Man was sent. If you are sent from someplace you already exist. Hebrews 10:5, "But a body Thou hast prepared for Me," therefore His body was not created. Read John 17:3, 1 John 4:14 and a host of other verses that show Jesus was sent.

Also, read the parable of the Vineyard at Mark 12:1-8 where the Son was sent by His Father. Now that's the end of the story.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,958
1,521
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#95
No, Jesus is "NOT" as the Son of Man created. The Son of Man according to Isaiah 9:6 "a son is given." Plus in the gospel of John the Son of Man was sent. If you are sent from someplace you already exist. Hebrews 10:5, "But a body Thou hast prepared for Me," therefore His body was not created. Read John 17:3, 1 John 4:14 and a host of other verses that show Jesus was sent.

Also, read the parable of the Vineyard at Mark 12:1-8 where the Son was sent by His Father. Now that's the end of the story.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
One thing I would mention when using the phrase son of man it denotes origin procreation man as the foundation. . with us son of God denotes the new birth

Son of God the unseen supernatural no origin. No descents, no beginning, no end. .

Son of man is used to represent the temporal Jesus. Not Son of Man.

In that way we are gods, as sons of God but not what we will be. .

Its the kind of reasoning that the Son of man used when accused of blasphemy a mere man making himself out to be God. He never said he was God directly but gave glory to the father who worked with Him just as he works with us by faith. . showing the Pharisees understood not the doctrine.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
28,881
2,716
113
#97
I was taught what you are offering. It simply does not pan out.

#2.

Two different questions.

I think Jesus is the prophet, apostle coming after the promise of Melchedik our high priest as the Son of God continually.. the new testament order .Those that brings the word of God as a messenger that some call an angel a Greek word ... . for one one bring the words of another.

Many make the word angel a wonderment and say it is not for what the eyes see, some see it as some sort of unseen protection like a patron saint.

The Son of man is fully man . The the Son of God is fully God without beginning of days or end of spirit life.

He is not a man . Never was never could be.

Big difference between the supernatural without beginning and a creation that is corrupted.

If Jesus is not the lead apostles sent by the father .Than who is the angel that he called His Son ? And why could the Son of man not rebuke the devil if he had the power to do so?

Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually. Hebrews 7: 3

What would be some of the things that you think are necessary that Jesus remain a non messenger of the father.?

Who said Jesus was not the Son as the messenger of the new covenant. "Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee"? If not Jesus than, who? Peter?
Again...


Do you believe Jesus is...

1. Fully God/fully man?
or
2. Michael the Archangel?

Just state 1 or 2 and not a bunch of blather. Thanks.

e.g. this is not helpful...

The Son of man is fully man . The the Son of God is fully God without beginning of days or end of spirit life.

He is not a man . Never was never could be.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,958
1,521
113
#98
Again...


Do you believe Jesus is...

1. Fully God/fully man?
or
2. Michael the Archangel?

Just state 1 or 2 and not a bunch of blather. Thanks.

e.g. this is not helpful...

The Son of man is fully man . The the Son of God is fully God without beginning of days or end of spirit life.

He is not a man . Never was never could be.
God is not a man (Job 9:33)

Why is it not helpful? Are you saying Jesus was not born of mankind ? And did not have a earthen body signified as sinful .Yet he knew no sin? ? .

The scripture says he was born of woman (mankind.) Under the letter of the law, living in a corruptible body.

The others born of the flesh are not the born again kind, (not seen) the spirutl house made o up of many lively stones the bride. . like those drawn by a living faith hope of our new incorruptible bodies sons of God which we are. .

John 3:5-7 King James Version (KJV) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again

When a person marvels or wonders they stand in doubt . "Doubt" is not a very goof source of faith it leads to "unbelief" The opposite of faith. .
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
28,881
2,716
113
#99
God is not a man (Job 9:33)

Why is it not helpful? Are you saying Jesus was not born of mankind ? And did not have a earthen body signified as sinful .Yet he knew no sin? ? .

The scripture says he was born of woman (mankind.) Under the letter of the law, living in a corruptible body.

The others born of the flesh are not the born again kind, (not seen) the spirutl house made o up of many lively stones the bride. . like those drawn by a living faith hope of our new incorruptible bodies sons of God which we are. .

John 3:5-7 King James Version (KJV) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again

When a person marvels or wonders they stand in doubt . "Doubt" is not a very goof source of faith it leads to "unbelief" The opposite of faith. .
MORE SMOKE. Please answer my question (before I answer any of yours)...
Again (3rd time)...

Do you believe Jesus is...

1. Fully God/fully man?
or
2. Michael the Archangel?

Just state 1 or 2 and not a bunch of blather. Thanks.
 

oldethennew

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2016
10,794
2,665
113
God has shown us that the JW have real, seeking, hearts, but are very confused concerning certain TRUTHS,
and of course this would be for a real purpose for His Glory, and this is to TEACH THEM that ,
Christ and God are ONE, and NO, Jesus Christ is NOT Michael, for Michael is Michael, an ark 'angel'...
(Jesus Christ is our Salvation), and Michael is a messenger of God...
Michael's name means = messenger of God'...