Jesus being Michael the archangel

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oldethennew

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2016
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God has shown us that the JW have real, seeking, hearts, but are very confused concerning certain TRUTHS,
and of course this would be for a real purpose for His Glory, and this is to TEACH THEM that ,
Christ and God are ONE, and NO, Jesus Christ is NOT Michael, for Michael is Michael, an ark 'angel'...
(Jesus Christ is our Salvation), and Michael is a messenger of God...
Michael's name means = messenger of God'...
======================================================
oh how we LOVE our Brother Cross for his wisdom and understanding and concerning us both...
TY precious one..!
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
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One thing I would mention when using the phrase son of man it denotes origin procreation man as the foundation. . with us son of God denotes the new birth

Son of God the unseen supernatural no origin. No descents, no beginning, no end. .

Son of man is used to represent the temporal Jesus. Not Son of Man.

In that way we are gods, as sons of God but not what we will be. .

Its the kind of reasoning that the Son of man used when accused of blasphemy a mere man making himself out to be God. He never said he was God directly but gave glory to the father who worked with Him just as he works with us by faith. . showing the Pharisees understood not the doctrine.
Look! There was a reason why Jesus Christ referred to Himself as the "Son of Man" and as the "Son of God." He's the Son of Man on His mother's side who's nature is human being. He's the Son of God on His Father's side who's nature is deity. This is why and how He is the only person that has two natures known as the "hypostatic union."

It's also a universal law that a son shares the same nature as its father. You can disprove what I just said by giving me an example of a son that does not share the same nature as it's father. As far as the trial record goes at Matthew 26:57-66 the high priest Caiaphas specifically ask Jesus to swear as to His identity.

Matthew 26:63, "And the high priest said to Him, "I adjure You by the living God, that You tell us whether, (that word wheterimplies two options) (1) are you the Christ/Messiah and (2) the Son of God." And btw the high priest did not ask Jesus to swear if He was the Son of Man but the Son of God.

At Luke 22:70 Jesus answers, "Yes, I am." The high priest says at Matthew 26:65. "The the high priest tore his robes, saying. He has blasphemed! What further need do we have of witnesses? Behold, you have now heard the blasphemy;" It's not blasphemy to claim to be the Messiah. People even do so today. It is blasphemy to claim to be the Son of God the way Jesus meant it. The Jews knew full well what Jesus was saying and that's why they brought up the law at Leviticus 24:16. (John 19:7).

Now, you said that Jesus did not directly say, "I am God." There was a reason for why He did not. By Jesus saying that directly the Jews would have thought Jesus was claiming to be God besides God the Father making Jesus a "Polytheist."

You can read what Jesus did say by "implying" He was God without using the exact words, "I am God. All you have to do is read John 5:17,18, John 8:57,58, John 10:30 -38. John 19:7 and here at the trial record at Matthew 26. In fact, the Apostle John's authorial intent is found at John 30-31. "Many other signs therefore Jesus also performed in the presence of the discipleas, which are not written in this book; vs31, "but these have been written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; (The same exact words the high priest ask Jesus at Matthew 26:63) and that believeing you may have life in His name."

One other point! You said this, "with us son of God denotes the new birth." No, with us the Son of God denotes Jesus is God. And the problem with the Pharisees and others is that Jesus was actually who He claimed to be but they like others did/do not believe Him.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
17,737
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Jesus-Yeshua, when referring to Himself as the son of man, is saying the son of Adam. Adam may be translated as man. Come let us make Adam *man( in our image.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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Gen_6:2 (ASV) that the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all that they chose.

Gen_6:2 (KJV) That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

There are many references to "the sons of God" but only One Begotten of Him.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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No, Jesus is "NOT" as the Son of Man created. The Son of Man according to Isaiah 9:6 "a son is given." Plus in the gospel of John the Son of Man was sent. If you are sent from someplace you already exist. Hebrews 10:5, "But a body Thou hast prepared for Me," therefore His body was not created. Read John 17:3, 1 John 4:14 and a host of other verses that show Jesus was sent.

Also, read the parable of the Vineyard at Mark 12:1-8 where the Son was sent by His Father. Now that's the end of the story.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Yes the Son of man given as the prophet and high apostles a messenger for God.

The Son of man had no power to rebuke he spoke the words of the Father doing the fathers will not that of his own the one Good master.

No man can serve two teaching masters . We walk by faith.

To which other messenger or apostle did God say. Today you have fulfilled the prophecy spoken of in Isiah 9: 6.

Salvation is the work of two working as one. The Spirit of the father strengthened the Son to complete the work of the gospel of peace. No Son no Father . Know the Father know the Son .

.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Look! There was a reason why Jesus Christ referred to Himself as the "Son of Man" and as the "Son of God." He's the Son of Man on His mother's side who's nature is human being. He's the Son of God on His Father's side who's nature is deity. This is why and how He is the only person that has two natures known as the "hypostatic union."

It's also a universal law that a son shares the same nature as its father. You can disprove what I just said by giving me an example of a son that does not share the same nature as it's father. As far as the trial record goes at Matthew 26:57-66 the high priest Caiaphas specifically ask Jesus to swear as to His identity.

Matthew 26:63, "And the high priest said to Him, "I adjure You by the living God, that You tell us whether, (that word wheterimplies two options) (1) are you the Christ/Messiah and (2) the Son of God." And btw the high priest did not ask Jesus to swear if He was the Son of Man but the Son of God.

At Luke 22:70 Jesus answers, "Yes, I am." The high priest says at Matthew 26:65. "The the high priest tore his robes, saying. He has blasphemed! What further need do we have of witnesses? Behold, you have now heard the blasphemy;" It's not blasphemy to claim to be the Messiah. People even do so today. It is blasphemy to claim to be the Son of God the way Jesus meant it. The Jews knew full well what Jesus was saying and that's why they brought up the law at Leviticus 24:16. (John 19:7).

Now, you said that Jesus did not directly say, "I am God." There was a reason for why He did not. By Jesus saying that directly the Jews would have thought Jesus was claiming to be God besides God the Father making Jesus a "Polytheist."

You can read what Jesus did say by "implying" He was God without using the exact words, "I am God. All you have to do is read John 5:17,18, John 8:57,58, John 10:30 -38. John 19:7 and here at the trial record at Matthew 26. In fact, the Apostle John's authorial intent is found at John 30-31. "Many other signs therefore Jesus also performed in the presence of the discipleas, which are not written in this book; vs31, "but these have been written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; (The same exact words the high priest ask Jesus at Matthew 26:63) and that believeing you may have life in His name."

One other point! You said this, "with us son of God denotes the new birth." No, with us the Son of God denotes Jesus is God. And the problem with the Pharisees and others is that Jesus was actually who He claimed to be but they like others did/do not believe Him.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
In the end they could be called Polytheist." I would call it faithless or atheistic ( fool, no god)

Jesus Christ referred to Himself as the "Son of Man" and as the "Son of God." Because he was teaching us no man can serve two Good Masters as one God. . as well as God is not served with corruptible human as a will .

He can use a unbeliever to plant the gospel seed as well as one born again. God has no needs from the clay but satisfies all. All things that work to the good purpose of His will .

When accused of standing in the holy place of the father as the source of all Christian faith .(abomination of desolation.). Jesus gave glory to the unseen father .

The role of a prophet, apostle moved to do the will of another.

Mark 10:16-18 King James Version (KJV)
And he took them up in his arms, put his hands upon them, and blessed them.
And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to
him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

And that believing you may have life in His name." Not life in the corrupted flesh. .Jesus said His corrupted flesh profits for zero , nothing. The one time demonstration of the two working as one is over.

God is supernatural "without beginning". He is the beginning of all as the breath of life . Supernatural God has no beginning no end. God is not a man .And neither is there a fleshly mediator as our teacher to stand between God not seen and mankind seen .

.Jesus refused to stand in that place as a "daysman" . (Abomination of desolation}. Placing the unseen things of God in the temporal place of corrupted mankind.

For he is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment. Neither is there any daysman betwixt us, that might lay his hand upon us both.Job 9:32-33
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Archangels are created beings; Jesus is the Creator. It's that simple. :)
Amen! I see a clear distinction in the power and authority of Jesus and Michael the archangel when comparing Matthew 4:10 where Jesus rebukes Satan and in Jude verse 9, where Michael the archangel "dared not bring a judgment of blasphemy" against Satan and calls on the Lord to rebuke him. Jesus is Lord and is God incarnate (Romans 10:9; John 1:1,14) yet Michael the archangel is an angel.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Amen! I see a clear distinction in the power and authority of Jesus and Michael the archangel when comparing Matthew 4:10 where Jesus rebukes Satan and in Jude verse 9, where Michael the archangel "dared not bring a judgment of blasphemy" against Satan and calls on the Lord to rebuke him. Jesus is Lord and is God incarnate (Romans 10:9; John 1:1,14) yet Michael the archangel is an angel.
The Son of man Jesus our high priest, high apostle as a messenger called a prophet. He spoke the words of the father. The words as food needed to strengthen a person .The kind of meat the disciples knew not of.

When the Son of man was sent into the wilderness as our scapegoat at the beginning of his ministry as high priest . The spirt of lies moved Jesus to suffer. And as a result the father put his words of the tongue of Jesus and the "Lord rebuked him. Jesus in effect said. . . not my will but yours as it is written

No power is attributed to the flesh . I think that is shown in Mathew 16. When Peter was moved by the spirit of error and Peter spoke the words of the lying spirit the god of this world . "This will never be! . . .no gospel!" Peter blasphemed the Son of man, Jesus which was forgivable because no power to rebuke is attributed to the flesh or power to save.(we do not wrestle against corrupted flesh and blood). . It has no power to cast out lies

The Father rebuked Satan and forgave Peter. like for instance.. Get behind me (Eternal Spirit, not seen) not corrupted Peter seen .

Just like in Mathew 4. There the lord put His words in the mouth of the apostle Jesus. And the the Lord rebuked him three time as it is written. Not the human witness .Nothing over the horizon, yesterday gone no faith.

A great lesson . how can we hear?. . . rightfully distinguishing between the things of God not seen, and that of men seen.
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
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In the end they could be called Polytheist." I would call it faithless or atheistic ( fool, no god)

Jesus Christ referred to Himself as the "Son of Man" and as the "Son of God." Because he was teaching us no man can serve two Good Masters as one God. . as well as God is not served with corruptible human as a will .

He can use a unbeliever to plant the gospel seed as well as one born again. God has no needs from the clay but satisfies all. All things that work to the good purpose of His will .

When accused of standing in the holy place of the father as the source of all Christian faith .(abomination of desolation.). Jesus gave glory to the unseen father .

The role of a prophet, apostle moved to do the will of another.

Mark 10:16-18 King James Version (KJV) And he took them up in his arms, put his hands upon them, and blessed them.
And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to
him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

And that believing you may have life in His name." Not life in the corrupted flesh. .Jesus said His corrupted flesh profits for zero , nothing. The one time demonstration of the two working as one is over.

God is supernatural "without beginning". He is the beginning of all as the breath of life . Supernatural God has no beginning no end. God is not a man .And neither is there a fleshly mediator as our teacher to stand between God not seen and mankind seen .

.Jesus refused to stand in that place as a "daysman" . (Abomination of desolation}. Placing the unseen things of God in the temporal place of corrupted mankind.

For he is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment. Neither is there any daysman betwixt us, that might lay his hand upon us both.Job 9:32-33
You completely changed the subject and went on this "preaching" mode because you cannot deal with the Biblical facts as presented in my post. For example, "Gee, none of us here knew that God is supernatural "without beginning." Did you just make this up? :rolleyes:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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The Father rebuked Satan and forgave Peter. like for instance.. Get behind me (Eternal Spirit, not seen) not corrupted Peter seen .
It amazes me how you can read the plain text of Scripture and not understand it. Jesus did the rebuking, not the Father.

A great lesson .
Let another praise you, and not your own mouth. It isn't great at all; it's convoluted, error-ridden, bafflegab. Like the woman in 1 Timothy 2, you should stop trying to teach others until you have been properly taught.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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Jesus Christ referred to Himself as the "Son of Man" and as the "Son of God." Because he was teaching us no man can serve two Good Masters as one God. . as well as God is not served with corruptible human as a will .
Where do you get this hogwash?
 
Mar 28, 2016
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It amazes me how you can read the plain text of Scripture and not understand it. Jesus did the rebuking, not the Father.


Let another praise you, and not your own mouth. It isn't great at all; it's convoluted, error-ridden, bafflegab. Like the woman in 1 Timothy 2, you should stop trying to teach others until you have been properly taught.
It amazes me how you can read the plain text of Scripture and not understand it. Jesus did the rebuking, as the father put his word on his apostles lips. No power is attributed to the corrupted flesh of the Son of man who represent mankind .

Did you forget he said his own flesh and blood profits for zero .He was trusting God his Good Master and not the will of the corrupted flesh and blood .Same kind of power. . not of the creature (Ass) that rebuked the false prophet led by the spirit of error.

Numbers 22:28 King James Version And the Lord opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times?

God is not served by the corrupted hands of mankind. He has no needs but satisfies all the good needs according to His good purpose. . He can send the gospel with a unbeliever(Ass) Just as easily as one who does believe a Lamb , Power in the word not the feet.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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SHORT ANSWER: GOD IS NOT AN ARCHANGEL. MICHAEL ANSWERS TO JESUS.
Jesus the Son of man. The prophet, apostle answers to the Father as do all apostles who are sent bring prophecy. All of mankind that lives in a earthen body of death answer to their creator. Jesus did not do the will of his dying flesh . God is not a man

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Answer: No, Jesus is not Michael the archangel. Michael the archangel is a created being. Jesus is God having no beginning and no ending, eternal.



Answer: Angel of the Lord = An angel sent to speak a message on behalf of the Lord
The Son of man, Jesus is a created being. God is not a man . He is not a created being
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
17,737
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The Son of man, Jesus is a created being. God is not a man . He is not a created being
God made Himself, in the form of flesh, to be just like any other of His creation so that none could fault His judgement nor His mercy on all. Yes, Jesus-Yeshua is a creature of the Most High conceived of the Holy Spirit in the flesh, however being the Firstborn of the resurrection raised up, His Body was florified and returned to the Throne of the Beloved which is eternal.

Jesus-Yeshua is God. It is written throughout the Word He is.
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
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The Son of man, Jesus is a created being. God is not a man . He is not a created being
Can you please provide the scriptures that prove Jesus Christ was a created being?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
Mar 28, 2016
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God made Himself, in the form of flesh, to be just like any other of His creation so that none could fault His judgement nor His mercy on all. Yes, Jesus-Yeshua is a creature of the Most High conceived of the Holy Spirit in the flesh, however being the Firstborn of the resurrection raised up, His Body was florified and returned to the Throne of the Beloved which is eternal.

Jesus-Yeshua is God. It is written throughout the Word He is.
His Spirt returned to the unseen place of authority called a throne .

I am not saying that Jehovah is not our savior. But we hear differently. Not a salvation issue more of how do we walk by faith the unseen eternal?

Corrupted Flesh and blood could never enter the incorruptible new. Not one rudiment from the corruption can enter the new.

God the Faithful Creator is not like His creation. . . . "A creation" ( impossible) to serve two masters. . . the things seen the temporal and those not seen the eternal

He as the Son of God remains without mother or father, beginning of spirit life or end . .

He appeared in the flesh to do the will of the father as a demonstration of a spiritual work not seen . It in effect was finished from before the foundation of the world. "The lamb of God slain". Not will be

One demonstration is all that was propmised. Some did know him after the flesh. Revealed by the Spirit that works within. Not revealed by the flesh of Jesus . observing.

Jesus said his flesh profits for nothing. Again a demonstration of a work performed before the foundation. .

2 Corihtinans provides a good study tools to in order to rightly divide. as it teaches us how to walk by faith, using the things seen to give us the eternal vision from above.

2 Corihtinans 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

Jesus had the power of the Holy Spirit working in him but it was not of him just as ours is not of us. He did the will of the father. The one with the power.

He provides one of the tools in verse 18 so that we can rightly divide.

2 Corihtinans 4:7 18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Then it seem that the vison becomes clearer. God is not a man.

2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Can you please provide the scriptures that prove Jesus Christ was a created being?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Thanks I can try.

Jesus, the Son of man did the will of the father not seen. Christ is the anointing Holy Spirit the teacher who worked in the Son of man. .

He instructs us in 1 John 2 warning us that we do not need a man to teach us .And has given us a living demonstration as a parable though the Son of man.

Jesus who was without sin was twelve and those who heard him were amazed and marveled yet he had no theological schooling .

This was I beleive in order to do what the letter of the the law could not do. Give new born again spirit life.

Two laws working together to make "one perfect new law".

Romans 8:2-4 King James Version (KJV) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

The Son of God. The anointing teacher guide comforter who does bring to our memory the former things he has, or is teaching. Coming as Melchedik a vision or theophany could not perform the demonstration .

literal corrupted flesh and blood was needed to demonstrate the work of two (Father with the Son . The wedding invitation to the whole world. . . the gospel .
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
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Thanks I can try.

Jesus, the Son of man did the will of the father not seen. Christ is the anointing Holy Spirit the teacher who worked in the Son of man. .

He instructs us in 1 John 2 warning us that we do not need a man to teach us .And has given us a living demonstration as a parable though the Son of man.

Jesus who was without sin was twelve and those who heard him were amazed and marveled yet he had no theological schooling .

This was I beleive in order to do what the letter of the the law could not do. Give new born again spirit life.

Two laws working together to make "one perfect new law".

Romans 8:2-4 King James Version (KJV) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

The Son of God. The anointing teacher guide comforter who does bring to our memory the former things he has, or is teaching. Coming as Melchedik a vision or theophany could not perform the demonstration .

literal corrupted flesh and blood was needed to demonstrate the work of two (Father with the Son . The wedding invitation to the whole world. . . the gospel .
Your answer does not address my specific question? What verse or verses can you provide that Jesus Christ was a created being? Here, let me help you out on this. Does Proverbs 8:22 prove Jesus was created? Or how about Revelation 3:14, does this verse prove Jesus was created?

Moreover, how do you explain John 1:1-3 where Jesus is the "Logos/Word" that was with God and He is God and in the beginning with God, vs2? Also, verse 3, "All thing came into being by Him, and apart (or without Him) nothing came into being that has come into being."

So, if Jesus is a created being why is He clearly identified as the agent of creation? Colossians 1:16 backs this up along with Hebrews 1:10 where Jesus' own Father identifies Him as the creator. Please reconcile these verses with Isaiah 44:24, "Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you in the womb, I, the Lord, am the maker OF ALL THINGS, Stretching out the heavens BY MYSELF, And spreading out the earth ALL ALONE."

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto