Jesus being Michael the archangel

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JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
17,754
4,232
113
#63
d
Mr. Jaumel! I am going to show you kindness, intelligence, logic, reason and the word of God, the Bible only. Not commentaries and not icons etc.

And this topic is a "BIG DEAL" because if you have the wrong Jesus by saying Jesus is an angel called Michael then you are now in the category of the cults like the Jehovah Witnesses who do teach Jesus is Michael the are angel.

Now, you said there is no "conclusion as to Michael being Jesus or not, simply information." This is a false statement because the God I serve does not leave Christians "hanging" out there in the wind trying to figure out what His word means.

You said Michael's name means, "Who is like God." Jesus' name is "God with Us." Matthew 1:23. Jesus is identified as "Savior, Christ and Lord, Michael is not. Luke 2:11, "for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord." Jesus is clearly identified as God at John 1:1, 2 Peter 1:1, John 20:28 and at other numerous places, Michael is not.

Michael is an actual angel and Jesus is not. Jesus is known as the "Angel of the Lord" but He is not an actual angel. Jesus is the one and only manifestion of God because God the Father cannot be seen, even according to Jesus Himself. John 1:18. The angel of the Lord first appears as the angel of the Lord at Genesis 16:7. He confronts Hagar and tells her at vs10, "I will greatly multiply your descendants so they shall be too many to number." At Geneses 16:13 Hagar says the following: "Then she called the name of the Lord who spoke to her, "Thou art a God who sees;" for she said, "Have I even remained alive here AFTER SEEING HIM." These would be the Arabs of today. Michael did not and cannot multiply anyone's descendants, only God can do this. Angels are limited in what they can do and that is why they are called, "ministering spirits."

At Genesis 22 where God ask Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac who have the angel of the Lord calling out from heaven two times to Abraham at Genesis 22:11 and at vs15. The angel of the Lord says the following at Genesis 22:16, "and said, "By Myself I have sworn, declares the Lord because you have done this thing, and have not withheld your son, your only son, vs17, indeed I will greatly bless you and I will greatly multiply your seeds as the stars of the heavens, and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your seed shall possess the gate of their enemines."

It could not be more clear that the angel of the Lord, the preincarnate Jesus Christ can't be Michael the arc angel, it's impossible. The main reason why is that angels CANNOT SWEAR OATHS on behalf of God. This is clearly confirmed at Hebrews 6:13,14 which refers back to Genesis 22. "For when God made the promise to Abraham, SINCE HE COULD SWEAR BY NO ONE GREATER, HE SWORE BY HIMSELF.' vs14, saying, I will surely bless you, and I will surely multiply you.'

Angels are not greater than God Himself therefore Michael can't be Jesus and it was Jesus who swore the oath since He is God the Son. This is not hard to understand. Now, tell me where I'm wrong, anybody?

IN THE ANGEL OF THE LORD,
bluto
Your words above seem to be addressing some other person-s opinions for they are not mine. Please if you are so well qualified to comment at least comment on what I have posted and not what someone has posted about me.
There is but one El, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

If you continue to accuse me of not following Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior I must put you with those same ones who accused our Lord.d
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
9,673
1,652
113
#66
If Jesus isn't Michael the archangel, could someone (or maybe more than one person) explain why?
Well, though there are many reasons as others have already pointed out, here is one more:

================================================================================
The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of His nature, upholding all things by His powerful word. After He had provided purification for sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high. 4So He became as far superior to the angels as the name He has inherited is excellent beyond theirs. 5For to which of the angels did God ever say:

“You are My Son;

today I have become Your Father” ?
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
17,754
4,232
113
#67
Bye until then.
 
Sep 24, 2012
351
70
28
#68
Well, though there are many reasons as others have already pointed out, here is one more:

================================================================================
The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of His nature, upholding all things by His powerful word. After He had provided purification for sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high. 4So He became as far superior to the angels as the name He has inherited is excellent beyond theirs. 5For to which of the angels did God ever say:

“You are My Son;

today I have become Your Father” ?
So Jesus is not Michael the archangel?

Is the angel of the Lord not Jesus (or the Father or the Holy Spirit)? God is the Father, the Son (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit, right? One God but three different Persons?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
32,197
10,297
113
#69
So Jesus is not Michael the archangel?

Is the angel of the Lord not Jesus (or the Father or the Holy Spirit)? God is the Father, the Son (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit, right? One God but three different Persons?
Dearest LeeLoving. . . in the OT, both God and Jesus revealed themselves at different times. When it was the Person of God the Father we call it a Theophany, and when it was the pre-incarnate Person of Jesus, we call it a Christophany. Whenever someone received a visit from “the angel of the Lord,” this was the pre-incarnate Christ. The angel of the Lord is not Michael. You can read a bit about this subject here.
 
May 14, 2020
43
71
18
36
Western Australia
#70
Dearest LeeLoving. . . in the OT, both God and Jesus revealed themselves at different times. When it was the Person of God the Father we call it a Theophany, and when it was the pre-incarnate Person of Jesus, we call it a Christophany. Whenever someone received a visit from “the angel of the Lord,” this was the pre-incarnate Christ. The angel of the Lord is not Michael. You can read a bit about this subject here.
This looks interesting, I’m gonna check it out, thanks 😊
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
32,197
10,297
113
#71
This looks interesting, I’m gonna check it out, thanks 😊
I am glad you will! And you are welcome :)

PS~ that site is not infallible, though generally quite informative and well laid-out :geek:
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
9,673
1,652
113
#72
So Jesus is not Michael the archangel?

Is the angel of the Lord not Jesus (or the Father or the Holy Spirit)? God is the Father, the Son (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit, right? One God but three different Persons?
Hello LeeLoving!

The claim of Michael the archangel as being Jesus, is a Mormon belief. Likewise, the JW's believe that Jesus is the spirit brother of Lucifer. Both are wrong. They believe in another Jesus and another gospel, which is no gospel at all.

Michael the archangel, though mighty, is a created being. No created being could pay the penalty for the sins of mankind. Only God alone who is Holy could do so. Furthermore, scripture states that all things, whether in heaven or on earth, were created by Jesus and for Him.

==================================
The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

And God the Father speaking about the Son, He says:

“In the beginning, O Lord, You laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands.
They will perish, but You remain; they will all wear out like a garment. You will roll them up like a robe; like a garmenth they will be changed; but You remain the same, and Your years will never end.”
 
Sep 24, 2012
351
70
28
#73
Hello LeeLoving!

The claim of Michael the archangel as being Jesus, is a Mormon belief. Likewise, the JW's believe that Jesus is the spirit brother of Lucifer. Both are wrong. They believe in another Jesus and another gospel, which is no gospel at all.

Michael the archangel, though mighty, is a created being. No created being could pay the penalty for the sins of mankind. Only God alone who is Holy could do so. Furthermore, scripture states that all things, whether in heaven or on earth, were created by Jesus and for Him.

==================================
The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

And God the Father speaking about the Son, He says:

“In the beginning, O Lord, You laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands.
They will perish, but You remain; they will all wear out like a garment. You will roll them up like a robe; like a garmenth they will be changed; but You remain the same, and Your years will never end.”
I might not be able to follow what you wrote. Would it be possible I guess to get some really direct answers to my questions?
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
9,673
1,652
113
#74
This looks interesting, I’m gonna check it out, thanks 😊
Hello Caprice84!

Just fyi, Jesus never appears in the person of God the Father. Though they are one God, they are also individual persons. This is evident in many scriptures, as follows:

=======================================

"Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness"

"Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”

In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man (Jesus), a coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

One like the Son of Man = Jesus

The Ancient of Days = God the Father

"As soon as Jesus came up out of the water, He saw the heavens breaking open and the Spirit descending on Him like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased.”

"Then a cloud appeared and enveloped them, and a voice came from the cloud: “This is My beloved Son. Listen to Him!”

"Then I saw a Lamb who appeared to have been slain, standing in the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. The Lamb had seven horns and seven eyes, which represent the seven Spirits of God sent out into all the earth. And He came and took the scroll from the right hand of the One seated on the throne.

The Lamb who appeared to have been slain = Jesus

The One seated on the throne = God the Father

=========================================================

Jesus never speaks in the person of God the Father, but speaks as himself as being God, both the Father and the Son being in agreement. As you can see, the scriptures above demonstrate God the Father and Jesus as the Son, as being individual persons, yet they are one God.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
9,673
1,652
113
#75
I might not be able to follow what you wrote. Would it be possible I guess to get some really direct answers to my questions?
Did you not read the post? Are those not direct answers?
 
May 14, 2020
43
71
18
36
Western Australia
#76
Hello Caprice84!

Just fyi, Jesus never appears in the person of God the Father. Though they are one God, they are also individual persons. This is evident in many scriptures, as follows:

=======================================

"Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness"

"Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”

In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man (Jesus), a coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

One like the Son of Man = Jesus

The Ancient of Days = God the Father

"As soon as Jesus came up out of the water, He saw the heavens breaking open and the Spirit descending on Him like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased.”

"Then a cloud appeared and enveloped them, and a voice came from the cloud: “This is My beloved Son. Listen to Him!”

"Then I saw a Lamb who appeared to have been slain, standing in the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. The Lamb had seven horns and seven eyes, which represent the seven Spirits of God sent out into all the earth. And He came and took the scroll from the right hand of the One seated on the throne.

The Lamb who appeared to have been slain = Jesus

The One seated on the throne = God the Father

=========================================================

Jesus never speaks in the person of God the Father, but speaks as himself as being God, both the Father and the Son being in agreement. As you can see, the scriptures above demonstrate God the Father and Jesus as the Son, as being individual persons, yet they are one God.
That’s very informative, thanks for sharing 😊
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
9,673
1,652
113
#78
I might not be able to follow what you wrote. Would it be possible I guess to get some really direct answers to my questions?
You started off with "So Jesus is not Michael the archangel?"

The word "aggelos' translated as 'angel' means 'a messenger,' most of the time referring to a heavenly being, but can also refer to a human messenger depending on the context. Therefore, 'an angel of the Lord' would be a heavenly being sent to deliver a message on behalf of the Lord.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
9,673
1,652
113
#79
I might just be bad at reading. I might not have read your whole post.
No problem! If you have a specific question, I would be happy to elaborate. From your post, I thought that it was about whether Michael the archangel was Jesus. That is what I responded to.