Jesus: Both Son and Father?

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Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
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#41
Wow! My lack of understanding? And then you suggest that Jesus is God the Father? Are you a Modalist, or what?



BTW Modalism is heresy.

Stop calling me names and insulting me you rude, obnoxious, arrogant man!

You have been on my case constantly since I joined this site. It's verging on harassment. There is nothing heretical about any of my Biblical beliefs.
 
Aug 7, 2016
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#43
How ever you want to see it...


It doesn't bother me any.


Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and give thanks through Him to the Father in heaven.

Ephesians 5:19Speak to one another with psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your hearts to the Lord, 20always giving thanks to God the Father for everything in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Just reposting to be seen. ;) Cheers. Hope you all had a great day.
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
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#45
Whoa! Everybody play nice! No name calling. :)

None of this post will matter in eternity. Love one another. Speak the truth in love. :)
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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#46
Your lack of understanding it seems to be the problem rather than the KJV. It's quite straightforward. It's glorious! The fullness of God is in the man Jesus to which the Holy Spirit testifies. Jesus is God the Father incarnate. John 10:30

"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."

J 3:16

Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"
John 20:17

Jesus cannot be Father. They can be one being, but still, there is a clear distinction between them.
 

joefizz

Senior Member
Apr 23, 2017
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#48
Whoa! Everybody play nice! No name calling. :)

None of this post will matter in eternity. Love one another. Speak the truth in love. :)
You tell'em!....


 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
3,768
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#49
This is from a thread started by the OP:

Nobody has given scripture to support the order of the trinity. I have only seen one scripture from someone to try to prove the order and that was Matt 28:19 which doesn't prove and "order" at all. It only lists them. I have seen several people state what they "believe" about the order but no scriptural evidence.

So again, for those of you who believe in the "First, Second, and Third" person of the trinity, where is scriptural evidence for the Father being "First', the Son being "second', and the Holy Ghost being "Third?"

Just so you know where I am coming from, I believe that the trinity is a man made doctrine
. I do not deny that it is a longstanding doctrine, only that it is not the longest standing one and also not truth. And I am stating that this "First, Second, and Third" business is partial proof that it is man made. This is an idea and terminology that is unsupported by scripture and yet most trinitarians have never questioned it. So I am questioning it for you. I say its unscriptural. Please show me that it isn't
.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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#50
apostolic862004 said:
Nobody has given scripture to support the order of the trinity... I say its unscriptural. Please show me that it isn't.
There is nothing difficult about proving Trinity from Scriptures.


The Father is God:

​"For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval." (J 6:27b)

"...who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father..." (1Pt 1:2)

​The Son is God:

​"What is he saying? This is blasphemy! Only God can forgive sins!" (Mk 2:7)

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning... The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us." (J 1:1-2,14)

"You call me Teacher and Lord and you are right, for so I am." (J 13:13)

"Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood." (Acts 20:28)

"...Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men."
(Phil 2:5-6)

"For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form." (Col 2:9)

"But about the Son he says, 'Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever'." (Heb 1:8)

"...we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life." (1J 5:20)

The Holy Spirit is God:

"The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the baby... will be called the Son of God." (Lk 1:35)

"It is the Spirit who gives life." (J 6:63)

"Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit...You have not lied just to human beings but to God." (Acts 5:3-4)

"...if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you..." (R 8:9)

"The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God... no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God." (1Cor 2:10)

"The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God​." (1Cor 2:14)

"Do you not know that you are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in you?" (1 Cor 3:16)

"And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit." (Eph 1:22)

"...prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit." (2Pt 1:21)

There is only one God:


"I and the Father are one." (J 10:30)

"I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one." (J 17:22)

"...one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all." (Eph 4:6)

"A mediator, however, implies more than one party; but God is one." (Gal 3:20)

"You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that." (James 2:19)

===

Three and one = Triune.
 
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Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
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#51
This has nothing to do with gender. It has everything to do with the language of the text.
Sorry, I have always loved that verse. I saw beauty, deep joy and praise in it. It seems that people are over-complicating it. And now because I said Jesus is one with The Father, I'm a heretic?
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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#52
Sorry, I have always loved that verse. I saw beauty, deep joy and praise in it. It seems that people are over-complicating it. And now because I said Jesus is one with The Father, I'm a heretic?
Being one WITH the Father is not the same thing as being the same thing AS the father. You must ask yourself, to what does the 'one' refer?
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
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#53
I looked up the Wikipedia entry for this "Modalism" thing which I have never heard of before.





modalism
modalism
ˈməʊd(ə)lɪz(ə)m/Submit
noun
noun: modalism
1.
THEOLOGY
the doctrine that the persons of the Trinity represent only three modes or aspects of the divine revelation, not distinct and coexisting parts of the divine nature.






 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
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#55
Being one WITH the Father is not the same thing as being the same thing AS the father. You must ask yourself, to what does the 'one' refer?
I didn't say it was. I know what the Trinity means.
 
Jun 26, 2014
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#58
Originally Posted by Lucy-Pevensie
I didn't say it was. I know what the Trinity means.



If they are not the same person and yet both are God would this not mean that God is a unity?
No, that would mean you have two Gods.

If you have an orange on the left side of the table, and an orange on the right side of the table, and they are not the same orange and yet both are oranges, guess what you have? Two oranges. :)

Why does this logic all of a sudden differ when we talk about God?
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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#59
No, that would mean you have two Gods.

If you have an orange on the left side of the table, and an orange on the right side of the table, and they are not the same orange and yet both are oranges, guess what you have? Two oranges. :)

Why does this logic all of a sudden differ when we talk about God?
Do you read music?
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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#60
No, that would mean you have two Gods.

If you have an orange on the left side of the table, and an orange on the right side of the table, and they are not the same orange and yet both are oranges, guess what you have? Two oranges. :)

Why does this logic all of a sudden differ when we talk about God?
You have two oranges, but one table.