Jesus: Both Son and Father?

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Lighthearted

Lighthearted

Senior Member
#101
Oct 17, 2016
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#101
Lucy-Pevensie said:
I guess this isn't the place for me.
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Hey sis? This is a BIG doctrinal denominational debate. Ya know why? Because it is confusing to wrap our pea brained human minds around...no matter how smart we think we are.
Know what I did? It isn't easy...and takes time. You have to read the Bible. All the verses beginning in Genesis that talk about God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, God the Father, God the Son. Pray. Listen to the Holy Spirit. Go with what God leads you to believe.

A quicker way...study Oneness doctrine...then study Trinity doctrine...pray...listen to the Holy Spirit. Go with what God leads you to believe.
 
kaijo

kaijo

Senior Member
#102
Jul 31, 2017
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#102
Jesus is both Son and Father.

He is the Son of the Almighty, as well as the Father of all those who belong to Him.

Matthew 23:37

37 [FONT=&quot]O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, [/FONT] [FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT] [FONT=&quot] , and ye would not![/FONT]
 
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trinitylover

Junior Member
#103
Mar 3, 2018
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#103
which father are you referring too? This sounds like modalism
 
SovereignGrace

SovereignGrace

Senior Member
#104
Dec 28, 2016
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#104
As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”[Matthew 4:16,17]

Here we can see the Christ being baptized, the Spirit of God descending to Him and the Christ and John the Baptist hearing the Father's voice.

Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”[Genesis 1:26]

Here we can see God saying 'us' and 'our', so there are three persons in the Godhead.
 
SovereignGrace

SovereignGrace

Senior Member
#105
Dec 28, 2016
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#105
kaijo said:
Jesus is both Son and Father.

He is the Son of the Almighty, as well as the Father of all those who belong to Him.

Matthew 23:37

37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings , and ye would not!
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Wrong. Try again.
 
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trinitylover

Junior Member
#107
Mar 3, 2018
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#107
Modalism was abolished by early church fathers, as well as Arianism(JW) . We can obviously see why it contradicts scripture
 
Locutus

Locutus

Senior Member
#108
Feb 10, 2017
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#108
kaijo said:
Would you like to explain why its wrong?
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Because there is a difference between the Son and the Father, they are not the same, Jesus is known in the old testament as Yahweh - Yahweh is not the Father.

It can be confusing but the new testament clearly states in various places that Jesus was/is Yahweh but not the Father - Yahweh took on flesh as Jesus. The Father did not.
 
kaijo

kaijo

Senior Member
#110
Jul 31, 2017
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#110
trinitylover said:
Modalism was abolished by early church fathers, as well as Arianism(JW) . We can obviously see why it contradicts scripture
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Not too sure what Modalism is.
And i dont know who exactly the "early church fathers" are. So until i know, i dont care alot about what they say.

But i do believe that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are 3 distinct entities.
And also, those 3 distinct entities make up One Definite Being.
 
SovereignGrace

SovereignGrace

Senior Member
#113
Dec 28, 2016
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#113
kaijo said:
Not too sure what Modalism is.
And i dont know who exactly the "early church fathers" are. So until i know, i dont care alot about what they say.

But i do believe that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are 3 distinct entities.
And also, those 3 distinct entities make up One Definite Being.
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You mean that you don't know what you teach is called? Wowzers.

Modalism teaches that instead of a triune Godhead, where there is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, it teaches that God is not three persons, but three manifestations. YUGE difference. Modalism is a Unitarian doctrine.
 
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trinitylover

Junior Member
#114
Mar 3, 2018
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#114
Unitarianism leads to eternal torment. We are telling you this because we love you and want the best for you. Please pray.
 
SovereignGrace

SovereignGrace

Senior Member
#115
Dec 28, 2016
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#115
[h=1]Modalism[/h] by Matt Slick
4/30/2008

Modalism is probably the most common theological error concerning the nature of God. It is a denial of the Trinity. Modalism states that God is a single person who, throughout biblical history, has revealed Himself in three modes or forms. Thus, God is a single person who first manifested himself in the mode of the Father in Old Testament times. At the incarnation, the mode was the Son; and after Jesus' ascension, the mode is the Holy Spirit. These modes are consecutive and never simultaneous. In other words, this view states that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit never all exist at the same time--only one after another. Modalism denies the distinctiveness of the three persons in the Trinity even though it retains the divinity of Christ.

Present-day groups that hold to forms of this error are the United Pentecostal and United Apostolic Churches. They deny the Trinity, teach that the name of God is Jesus, and require baptism for salvation. These modalist churches often accuse Trinitarians of teaching three gods. This is not what the Trinity is. The correct teaching of the Trinity is one God in three eternal coexistent persons: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

https://carm.org/modalism
 
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Adstar

Senior Member
#116
Jul 24, 2016
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#116
apostolic862004 said:
Isaiah 9:6 - For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

We know that this is a prophecy of Jesus Christ who is the Son. This verse of scriptures calls him the everlasting Father. If the Father and the Son are separate, how can this be?
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Yes the Father Son and Holy Spirit are One...
 
SovereignGrace

SovereignGrace

Senior Member
#117
Dec 28, 2016
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#117
Something in this thread just doesn't seem right, doesn't pass the smell test, iow.

I get the feeling there are some multiple accounts in here, and someone is playing both sides to get us riled up.


******WILL THE MODERATORS PLEASE CHECK THE IP ADDRESSES OF ALL OF US AND SEE IF THERE ARE MULTIPLE ACCOUNTS WITH ONE PERSON HAVING MORE THAN ONE MONIKER?*****
 
A

Adstar

Senior Member
#119
Jul 24, 2016
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#119
SovereignGrace said:
Define 'one', please.
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The Father is God manifested in Heaven.
Jesus is God manifested on Earth.
And the Holy Spirit is God as he has been since from eternal to eternal..

They have all existed at the same time, simultaneously.. So i do not conform to the belief of Modalism in that regard..
 
kaijo

kaijo

Senior Member
#120
Jul 31, 2017
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#120
SovereignGrace said:
You mean that you don't know what you teach is called? Wowzers.

Modalism teaches that instead of a triune Godhead, where there is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, it teaches that God is not three persons, but three manifestations. YUGE difference. Modalism is a Unitarian doctrine.
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I never said that They are 3 manifestations of One Being.
I said that They are 3 different Entities / Parts (or Persons) of One Definitive BEING.

You yourself consist of a head, a body, and a spirit...do you not? 3 different / distinct parts.
Yet those 3 parts are what make up you (singular), as a whole.

I could take a photo of just your head, and show it to your family members.
And if i asked them who is that picture of? They would likely reply "its SovereignGrace!".
And likewise if i took a photo of just your body and asked them who this was, they would likely say "its SovereignGrace as well!" ...coz they would most likely recognize your clothing and know your build, being family members n all.

So whether its your head, or your body....its still identified as you.

And so in the same way, God the Father is the Head, and God the Son is the Body.
Yet They are 2 different portions of the same Being.

Whether i call the Father GOD, or Jesus God....I am referring to the same Being in the bigger picture. But, just a different portion of that Being...depending on who i am referring to.
 
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