Jesus Christ was God manifest in the Flesh

livingbygrace · Apr 15, 2011

First: it isn’t my Septuagint, second.. the most quotes are coming from the Septuagint, that is used in the OT.. Well, the KJV is a translation just as the Leeser ( Jewish translation OT) the Statenvertaling (Dutch) Naardense Vertaling (Dutch) the Lutheran (English, German, Dutch). And of course we can always look at the orginal text.. In Hebrew and Greek.. if you only are able to use your KJ or NIV, don’t accuse me of unable to debate.

I asked you if you would accept what is written in the KJV
Are you saying that unless a person reads the Greek and Hebrew texts they can have no true understanding of Father, Son and Holy Spirit?
Christianity is not about being a scholar, it is about the truth the Holy Spirit will reveal to a person who loves God and trusts in Christ in simple faith, but this for so many if they are honest is offensive
For man has to believe that with his human brilliance he can himself work out so much by deep study(and he convinces himself so often he is being led of the spirit in doing so)
And he ends up contradicting the plainest of statements in the Bible with this approach

yet to us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we in Him, and one Lord Jesus Christ by whom are all things, and we by Him.
All hemin heis theos ho pater ex hou ta panta kai hemeis eis auto kai heis kurius iesous christos die hou ta panta kai hemeis die auto.

Soo what is Paul telling: one God, heis theos, ho pater and one Lord heis kurious iesous christos So if that is true.. it isn’t possible that there are two Gods and two Lords.. I hope you agree with me. Because the part of the sentence is the same.. If Paul made a different between God of Kurios.. than we got some problem.. Because the NT said: that Father is the Lord.
.
Well Christ is our Lord and Saviour, but also he was the God of Israel in the OT. I am afraid you try to dig too deeply into something you cannot fully understand
But for us there is but one God, the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ
Let me put it this way
For us there is but one TRUE GOD
Again the tragedy of this is that man uses his academic mind to understand the spiritual, it cannot be done. Read 1 Cor ch 2

Than this sentence is impossible: Luc 1:32 He shall be great and shall be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God shall give unto Him the throne of His father David,

Why?? Because there is one Lord said Paul remember!!! Ohh and if you want to say… well when you read, you can read there is only one Lord Jesus Christ, that is written in 1Cor 8:6.. So there isn’t a problem that the God is kurios is too.. than it isn’t a problem that Jesus Christ is God too..
Well it is allowed to laugh. Because you made really funny moves to proof..

You are like so many others who delve so deeply into this and get nowhere
I have told you that Christ has the title God but is not the one TRUE GOD
Heb 1:8&9
The Father is the ONE TRUE GOD but is at times refered to the Lord God Almighty
There for us is one true God and one true Lord

Yes.. magic.. So you agree that the Word is Christ? Don’t play magic and read what there is written: The WORD WAS GOD.. and that all was in the beginning with God. AND THE WORD BECAME FLESH. When you accuse people that they have to read the Scripture you have to do it too.

Well as I don't profess perfect understanding and do not profess to interpret everything perfectly let us look at it from another point of view
As Christ was the God of Israel John is quite entitled as an Israelite to say Christ in one sense is God having the title God. And scripturally you cannot argue against that. And so this just becomes more confusion that you desperately try to understand with your academic mind and scholars, and you simply land in more trouble this way
We as Christians are not called to this kind of Christianity I assure you
Do you really think God wants you to spend so much of your time delving into this or doing the work he has called you to do?

What is your plan saved? You know that I don’t denie that.. are you going to try to made funny moves again? Where did I say the Christ isn’t the Word.. don’t do magic again doesn’t work here.

Well let me plainly write it a way you CANNOT scripturally argue against
In the begining was the word(Christ) and the word was with/besides God and the word was God(so who was the God of Israel in the OT) I can go over it with you if you wish.
And so you become ever consumed by one verse of scripture
Remember what John wrote after he had written this Gospel

No-one has seen God
1 John 4:12
So how can John believe Christ is the one true God? He cannot

Yes nobody seen God.. Isaiah didn’t and Ezekiel didn’t.. Jesus didn’t. Well in your only blind mind it is contradiction..

Now you are starting to be untruthful, why?
I have repeastedy quoted John 6:46 to you, please accept I have and please write accordingly
Nlo-one has seen the one true God
The Father is spirit and has never been seen by any HUMAN, do you disagree?
Because Christ said no-one has seen the Father, EXCEPT THE ONE WHO IS FROM GOD
And John says
no-one has seen God
So Christ and John must be refering to the same person
The Father, the one true God
Put the magic away and read it again..

Yes.. a lie.. from who?? Satan.. they know good and evil, but they were equal. Tell me is satan equal? No? You fall in the same trap as A&E..

Please reread what I wrote from Gen 3:5 KJV

I go back to the orginal translation.. et elohim(plural form from eloah)

And I will go to vs 26 And God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."

We can see here.. God is plural..

What are you trying to convince me of here
Christ was with the Father from the begining, so please do not try and convince me of what I already accept

Of course.. when you are doing some magic with verses to proof you self. Using eiseges and accuse ther.

I do not understand this comment

Answers above

livingbygrace · Apr 15, 2011

Dutch41 said:

[FONT=&quot]The Berea did.. Paul did, the disciples did.. Maria did, David did, Salomo did.. Micah did, Zecharia did, Isaiah did. I don’t know what you want with this ‘strange’ question..[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Well I think I didn’t skip all your questions.. It is are the same answers sorry for that. You don’t know my idea of God. But fair enough. I will tell you about my view of the God of the Old Testament.[/FONT]

[font=&quot] [/quote]

Dutch

As you are now making no attempt to answer my questions put to you as is shown in my questions(#277) relating to your above comment I will not continue this discussion. You are evading answering my direct questions and simply moving on witrh more points of your own
Ever since I have started these discussions with people it always ends up like this
If you choose to fully address and answer the questions I put to you I will start answering your ponits again that is very fair

I will give you one further chance to respond here

Who was the God of Israel in the OT
Christ or the Father?

And in acordance with Heb 1:9 it says the son was raised above his companions and annointed with the oil of joy

So if the son, Christ is the one true God please explain FULLY

Did therefore God raise himself up above his companions and annoint himself with the oil of joy
Which must mean that God was not firstly above his companions but no more than equal to them

If you cannot fully answer these questions please in fairness do not ask me anymore

livingbygrace · Apr 15, 2011

Dutch41 said:

Let me ask once more

In what way WILL Christ become subject to the Father in the future? It is a very simple question

According to you he is now and always has been subject to the Father in position
You say in nature he cannot be subject to the Father ever
So please do not detour away to Mary and Joseph,
If you cannot answer plainly the question just admit it
Let me ask you again
In what way WILL Christ become subject to the Father at a future time

If you know the answer you will tell me plainly and not have to refer to Joseph and Mary

Red33 · Apr 15, 2011

PneumaPsucheSoma said:

Do you think that you know these men? Would you commit yourself to them and what they teach? I wonder. Are we to have fellowship with those that do not believe in their heart that our Lord Jesus Christ is the living and true God that was born in the likeness of sinful flesh and was crucified for the sins of all men? Is there any communion with those that fellowship at a table that does not eat His flesh and drink His blood? Are we to give God's speed to those that deny that God was manifest in the flesh and justified in the Spirit through Christ?

Is Jesus Christ God in the flesh or is He not? Is the gospel we preach based on this premise or is it just another social gospel? Is our love and the cross we take up based on the truth concerning the doctrine of Christ as the resurrected living God, or on some abstract concept that makes Him a lesser God? If He is a lesser God then we have all been duped and we are still in our sins and His blood has no power to redeem man and we are stuck with our own righteousness which is nothing but filthy rags and unacceptable.

In (Is 7:4, 8:8) the Lord showed Isaiah that a virgin would bear a son and his name was to be called IMMANUEL - meaning 'God with us' or 'with us is God'. The same was confirmed by the angel of the Lord with Joseph in (Mt 1:20-23).

WOW!!! Who is the one that really has a problem with blindness in their heart concerning the Son of God and the doctrine of Christ?

livingbygrace · Apr 15, 2011

Red33 said:

The one who has blindness must be the one who CANNOT answer any points put to them based on SCRIPTURE, so they simply continually ignore questioons put to them while at the same time eagerly condemning those who stand on the plain words of scripture
I repeat if you cannot answer any questions put to you on this subject but just condemn others with hollow words and then run from debate why should you be seen as someone who has an understanding of this subject which is true.
You have no confidence in your own asserttions to discuss this according to scripture for you blindly follow man, and do not have an understasnding based on scripture. You just take a few verses and try and make them f
it your man made opinioons whilst ignoring the plainest of scripture on this subject

The true tragedy of all of this is as I have told you before, is that I know God was in Christ via the spirit
I hjave repeatedly stated that God was manifest in his son
Throughout the Bible it is what God does THROUGH the son

The universe was created THROUGH THE SON
We are saved THROUGH THE SON
God spoke to moses in the burning bush THROUGH THJE SON

What you and most cannot grasp is that the spirit proceeds from the Father and fully exhibits in the son
Therefore you can say that the Fasther is fully in the son via the Spirit. But this is where your logical mind sends you into error.
Because you then have to ignore the plainest of scripture to believe as you do. Ands those who stand on such scripture are then condemned as heretics by peiople such as yourself
There is a Father
There is a son
There is a Holy Spirit
And it is the Spirit that joins all three together as one

So Christ and his Father are of one heart and one mind IN THE SPIRIT

But the Father is the one true God
And the Father is greater than the son PERIOD

Dutch41 · Apr 15, 2011

livingbygrace said:

Dutch

As you are now making no attempt to answer my questions put to you as is shown in my questions(#277) relating to your above comment I will not continue this discussion. You are evading answering my direct questions and simply moving on witrh more points of your own
Ever since I have started these discussions with people it always ends up like this
If you choose to fully address and answer the questions I put to you I will start answering your ponits again that is very fair

I will give you one further chance to respond here

Who was the God of Israel in the OT
Christ or the Father?

And in acordance with Heb 1:9 it says the son was raised above his companions and annointed with the oil of joy

So if the son, Christ is the one true God please explain FULLY

Did therefore God raise himself up above his companions and annoint himself with the oil of joy
Which must mean that God was not firstly above his companions but no more than equal to them

If you cannot fully answer these questions please in fairness do not ask me anymore[/quote]

I don´t want to offend you.. so, I will answer you.. I hope I can manage this weekend.. because I have to work a lot...

Don´t worry you get your answer..

Red33 · Apr 15, 2011

Dutch41 said:

Dutch, You can continue proving your premise with those that do not believe and I am sure it has been a good exercise for you, but you will never convince or persuade this poster because their own heart is turned from it. Those that are in unbelief concerning the doctrine of Christ have a hardness in their heart. Until that hardness is broken down they will not believe anything you have to say. They will complement you using others that do not put up with their foolishness, but they will continually criticize any point you make that promotes sound doctrine. You are dealing with an element in Christianity that has a problem with authority and unfortunately that also includes the scriptures. Do as God leads, but I do not see any good fruit from continuing with this poster.

livingbygrace · Apr 15, 2011

Red33 said:

Frankly this post is absurd

I accpet the doctrine of Christ that he preached while he walked this earth. You certainly cannot nor have you proved otherwise
You do not accept the doctrine of Christ, that is the plain truth. For you do not accept what Christ continuously and plainly stated was neccessary to believe to have eternal life

You speak of a hardness of heart. What has your heart been driven by in posts to many in this debate as well as others?

But you do not know anything of sound doctrine Red, for sojund doctrine ins found in scripture and you CANNOT discuss and debate this subject according to the plainest of scripture

So how can dutch be dealing with an elemenet of Christianity(me) when you say I am condemned and are possessed by the spirit of antichrist

Red
You are a true novice where all of this is concerned. You only know what man has taught you and you blindly look to man. And therefore you cannot discuss the scriptures yourself in debate and have no confidence to do so

You say you are Trinitarian but have a belief that you have been told is not Trinitarian

Sadly, I see you now in this debate being reduced to reciting well worn statements that you can recite perfectly in your head, but staytements that lack conviction, or authority. You are bereft of ideas and answers, and so once more you are left with nothing apart from lashing out at others and bering rude and offensive, yet you speak of the love of God and humility
Read Matt ch 23

Red33 · Apr 15, 2011

livingbygrace said:

This is the true LBG and he has always been this way and many of you do not know this. There is nothing edifying in this post to build up the body of Christ. The premise that he uses for everything that he does not agree with is that it is 'man made' or 'taught from men'. He feels that he is one of the exclusive believers that is taught by the Spirit. This is what a professing Christian is like who is 'puffed up' with his own knowledge and understanding and refuses to be part of a local assembly of believers who are taught the word and doctrine by a pastor-teacher that has been called by the grace of God. They become wise in their own conceits and have to always defend their position less they be looked upon as some charlatan.

livingbygrace · Apr 15, 2011

Red33 said:

I will be happy for the discerning to make their own judgements concerning what you write Red.

I know what is driving your words and comments and I am sure many others do too

Your pride has been hurt in this debate as people have seen you bereft of ideas, making slanderous attacks on Christians and then running away when asked questions concerning plain scripture that you have no answer to.

journey41 · Apr 15, 2011

[

Isaiah 43:10 Ye are my WITNESSES, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he; before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:12 I have declared, and have saved, and I have showed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye, are my WITNESSES, saith the Lord, that I am God.

Isaiah 41:1 Keep silence before me, O islands; and let the people renew their strength: let them come near; then let them speak: let us come near together to judgement.

Isaiah 41:2 Who RAISED UP the RIGHTEOUS MAN from the east, CALLED HIM to HIS FOOT, gave the nations before HIM, and MADE HIM RULE over kings? he gave them as the dust to his sword, and as driven stuble to his bow.

Isaiah 45:13 I have RAISED him up in righteousness, and I will DIRECT ALL HIS WAYS: he shall build MY city, and he shall let go MY captives, not for price, nor reward, saith the Lord of Hosts.

Isaiah 52:13 Behold, MY SERVANT shall deal prudently, HE shall be EXALTED and EXTOLLED, and be VERY HIGH.

Isaiah 52: 14 As many were astonished at thee, his VISAGE was SO MARRED more than ANY MAN, and his FORM more than the SONS of Men:

Isaiah 52:15 So shall he sprinkle MANY NATIONS; the kings shall shut their mouths at him: for that which had not been told them shall they see, and that which they had not heard shall they consider.

Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the Lord to BRUISE HIM; he has put HIM to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall PROSPER IN HIS HAND.

Isaiah 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my RIGHTEOUS SERVANT justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

livingbygrace · Apr 15, 2011

zone said:

God never changes.

Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Jesus never changes.
Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Amen, Father and son never change

God is the only Saviour.
"I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour." Isaiah 43:11
To the only wise God our Saviour... Jude 1:12

God our Saviour.
Titus 2:10 ...we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour. I Timothy 4:10 God my Saviour. Luke 1:47

Jesus is the only Saviour.
...the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. 1 John 4:14
...our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. II Peter 3:18
...God and our Saviour Jesus Christ. II Peter 1:1
...the Christ, the Saviour of the world. John 4:42
...the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour. Titus 1:4
a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. Luke 2:11
Neither is there salvation in any other (than Jesus): for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
--Acts 4:12
...salvation... is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
--2 Timothy 2:10
...captain of their salvation [Jesus] perfect through sufferings.
-- Heb 2:10 [Jesus]...author of eternal salvation...
-- Heb 5:9

Can I just offer one scropture to cover the above

To the only God our Saviour be glory power majesty and authority THROUGH Jesus Christ our Lord
Jude25

God created the universe and earth by Himself.
I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself. Isaiah 44:24 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Genesis 1:1

Jesus Christ created the universe and the earth.
unto the Son he saith...Thou, LORD, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands. Hebrews 1:10
By him [Jesus] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth...all things were created by him, and for him. Colossians 1:16 All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made. John 1:3

But in therse last days he has spoken to us by his son whom he appointed heir of all things, and THROUGH WHOM he made the universe
Heb 1:2

Yet for us therre is but, ONE GOD, THE FATHER FROM WHOM all things came and FOR WHOM we live and ONE LORD Jesus Christ THROUGH WHOM all things came and THROUGH WHOM we live
1 Cor 8:6

God is the Word.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God John 1:1

How do you reconcile your interpretation of these words with the words of the same author

No-one has seen God
1 John 4:12

Jesus is the Word.
...the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us...John 1:14

agreed

God is the first and the last.
I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he. Isaiah 41:4

Jesus is the first and the last.
Jesus said, "Fear not; I am the first and the last:" Revelation 1:17

The firstborn over all creation?

God forgives sins.
[T]he Lord..forgiveth all thine iniquities... Psalm 103:2-3 "[W]ho can forgive sins but God only?" Mark 2:7

Jesus forgives sins.
Jesus...said..."Son, thy sins be forgiven thee." Mark 2:5

Christ received authority and power from the Father

God is our redeemer.
[T]hou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer.. Isaiah 63:16

Jesus redeemed us.
[T]the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ...gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity.. Titus 2:13-14

The Father redeemed us THROUGH the sacrifice of the son

God is one.
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD. Deuteronomy 6:4

Jesus and God are one.
I and my Father are one. John 10:30

That they (the believers) may be one AS swe are one
John 17:22
So we the believers can be one AS Father and son are one, but we are still individual persons

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...All things were made by him...He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not...And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us John 1:1, 3, 10, 14
But as John said
No-one has seen God. S John 1:1 needs to be read bearing that in mind

Jesus saith...he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? John 14:9?
So if taken literally is Christ the Father?
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 1 John 5:7

Amen
But we the believers can be one AS Father and son are one

God has a Son.
[T]he LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. Psalms 2:7

Jesus is God's Son.
... [Jesus] said also that God was his Father... John 5:18

God is the Holy One
Psalms 71:22 I will also praise thee with the psaltery, even thy truth,O my God: unto thee will I sing with the harp, O thou Holy One of Israel.
Psalms 78:41 Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel.
Psalms 89:18 For the LORD is our defence; and the Holy One of Israel is our king.
Isaiah 10:20 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that smote them; but shall stay upon the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, in truth. Psalms 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. (Messianic Psalm)

Who was the God of Israel in the OT?

Jesus is the Holy One.
Acts 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
3:13-14 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go. But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you; 13:34-35 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David. Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption

See above answer

Only God is worshipped.
... Then saith Jesus unto him... Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. Matthew 4:10

Jesus is worshipped.
While [Jesus] spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him... Matthew 9:18
And again, when [God] bringeth in the firstbegotten [Jesus] into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. Hebrews 1:6 And Thomas answered and said unto [Jesus], My Lord and my God. John 20:28

We worship the divinity of the Father we see in the son

God is Messiah.
...unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder...and his name shall be called... The mighty God, The everlasting Father... Isaiah 9:6

Again, is the Son therefore the Father?
Christ is mighty God, but the Father(the one true God) is Christ's God
Heb 1:9

Jesus is Messiah.
The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he. John 4:25-26

Only God is glorified.
I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another... Isaiah 42:8

God will not give his glory that is his as the ONE TRUE GOD to another

God glorified Jesus.
And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. John 17:5
[A]ll men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. John 5:23 But unto the Son he [God] saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Hebrews 1:8
The following verse
You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness
Therefore GOD, YOUR GOD
Has set you above your companions and annointed you with the oil of joy

Did God set himself abpove his companions annoint himself with the oil of Joy?
This would mean God was first equasl to his companions

God is 'I am'.
And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. Exodus 3:14

Jesus is 'I am'.
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am
John 8:58

Who appeared to Moses in the burning bush?
There the ANGEL OF THE LORD APPEARED TO HIM in flames of fire from within thje bush
Ex 3:2

He was sent to be their ruler and deliverer by God Himself THROUGH THE ANGEL WHO APPEARED TO HIM IN THE BUSH
Acts 7:35
Is God the angel of the Lord?

God heals all diseases.
Bless the LORD...who healeth all thy diseases. Psalms 103:2

Jesus heals all diseases.
[Jesus] healed all that were sick. Matthew 8:16

Christ said that the believers woulds do greater things than he because he was going to his Father
The sick were healed by the power of the Holy Spirit in Christ as he himself acknowledged

God is the Judge of the whole earth.
O Lord God, to whom vengeance belongeth; O God, to whom vengeance belongeth, shew thyself. Lift up thyself, thou judge of the earth: render a reward to the proud. Psalms 94:1-2 [Abraham to God]...Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right? Genesis 18:25

Who was David's Lord?

Jesus is the Judge of the whole earth.
[T]he Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: John 5:22

God has life in Himself.
[T]he Father hath life in himself; John 5:26

Jesus has life in Himself.
so hath [God] given to the Son to have life in himself; In [Jesus] was life; and the life was the light of men. John 1:4

Amen

God raises the dead.
[T]he Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; John 5:21

Jesus raises the dead.

[T]he Son quickeneth whom he will. John 5:21

Peter prayed and Dorcas was raised
Elisha stretched over a boy and he was raised to life
Paul picked a dead youth up from the street and he returned to life
Are Peter, Elisha and Paul also God?

John lived with Christ for three years when he was on ewarth. What did John say?
No-one has seen God
1 John 4:12

Christ said
No-one has seen the Father except the one who is from God, only he has seen the Father
John 6:46
It is safe to assume Christ and John were refering to the same person, The one true God'
Paul said
When it says that everything has been put under him IT IS CLEAR THAT THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE GOD HIMSELF who put everything under Christ
1 Cor 15:27

Christ said
That they may know you,(the Father) the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent
John 17:3

The Father is greater than I
John 14:28
The Father is greater than all
John 10:29
The Father said

Thy throne O God will last forever and ever
and righteousness will be a sceptre of your kingdom
You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness
Therefore GOD, YOUR GOD has set you above your companions
and annointed you wioth the oil of joy
Heb 1:8&9

So as previously asked
Did God raise himself above his companions and annoint himself with the oil of joy?

If he did then he must firstly have been equal to his companions

Is such a thing possible for the one, true God?

PneumaPsucheSoma · Apr 15, 2011

Red33 said:

No. Nor do I know you. But you are the one lashing out personally and repeatedly, often in the third-person about one member to another rather than directly conversing with them. You have done this toward me as well, informing another member that I am "out to lunch"; then openly challenging my fruit-bearing, having impugned my salvation.

I don't agree with LBG at all, but he's not really trying to represent a cohesive theological system to proselyte others. He's simply challenged Trinitarianism and others' claims about what Scripture says is required for salvation. Nothing he had said violates Scripture, even if I don't feel it fully represents Scripture.

No. Why would I need to do that to converse? I don't commit myself to you and what you teach, either. You're a default Trinitarian who can't defend your beliefs. You continuously attack others personally. I haven't endorsed his belief; I've just agreed with his criticism of Trinis' conduct and arguments and confirmed that he holds to simple scriptural requirements for salvific faith. His belief is within scriptural boundaries for salvation. His own personal salvation is between him and his Savior.

Interaction is not fellowship. And you still don't understand the meaning of John's epistles in addressing specific issues of Docetic Gnosticism. LBG affirms that Jesus Christ came in actual flesh, and that God was manifest in the flesh. He just holds more of a Nestorian type understanding of what that means.

You believe an extra-biblical creedal view that it was only one separate God-person that was manifest in the flesh. Yet nowhere does Scripture indicate God is three "persons"; it is derived by inference. The Word DOES say God's Soul/The Father is well pleased in the Son.

Yes. But Trinis believe Jesus was only 1/3 of God in the flesh.

Your Christology is no more representative of this than his. Trinitarians are sooooo arrogant and ignorant.

And... all the major God models can account for this. You have a narrow understanding. And no, I don't broadly include everyone's various beliefs.

My WOW was for your HOW, not your WHAT. You've been petty and mean like a female.

Who's blind? Trinitarians. Are there others who are blind? Certainly.

Firm and earnest doesn't have to be vindictive and accusational; especially when you are personally ignorant and indoctrinated.

Red33 · Apr 15, 2011

I see you have had some practice. You attibute things to me concerning the Trinity that has caused you lots of constination. It appears to have been a long term wound that took (13) years to get over. You know, when the Spirit speaks to your heart it only takes a moment to agree with God. If you wrestled with this for (13) years it makes me wonder just what kind of transformation took place in your life. You can be whatever kind of Christian you want, I really don't care, that's between you and God and you have to give your own account. Does that seem to be impersonal to you, well, it is.

PneumaPsucheSoma · Apr 15, 2011

Red33 said:

As far as your attempt at discerning my spirit, you're not even close... again. I'm not sure why you continue with the futile psychoanalyzation.

And are you trying to say "consternation"? Lol.

Red33 · Apr 15, 2011

PneumaPsucheSoma said:

That's the word, thanks

paulnsilas · Apr 15, 2011

livingbygrace said:

John lived with Christ for three years when he was on ewarth. What did John say?
No-one has seen God
1 John 4:12

Christ said
No-one has seen the Father except the one who is from God, only he has seen the Father
John 6:46
It is safe to assume Christ and John were refering to the same person, The one true God'
Paul said
When it says that everything has been put under him IT IS CLEAR THAT THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE GOD HIMSELF who put everything under Christ
1 Cor 15:27

Christ said
That they may know you,(the Father) the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent
John 17:3

The Father is greater than I
John 14:28
The Father is greater than all
John 10:29
The Father said

Thy throne O God will last forever and ever
and righteousness will be a sceptre of your kingdom
You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness
Therefore GOD, YOUR GOD has set you above your companions
and annointed you wioth the oil of joy
Heb 1:8&9

So as previously asked
Did God raise himself above his companions and annoint himself with the oil of joy?

If he did then he must firstly have been equal to his companions

Is such a thing possible for the one, true God?

You vacilate between Polytheism (Jesus and God are both Gods, but Jesus is not THE GOD), and denying the Eternal Deity of Christ altogether, since you have Him receiving Demi-Deity at His baptism (i presume).

The real problem with this theory, is that eventually men will be just like Jesus: little gods.

eternally-gratefull · Apr 15, 2011

paulnsilas said:

You vacilate between Polytheism (Jesus and God are both Gods, but Jesus is not THE GOD), and denying the Eternal Deity of Christ altogether, since you have Him receiving Demi-Deity at His baptism (i presume).

The real problem with this theory, is that eventually men will be just like Jesus: little gods.

Sounds like Mormonism.

Dutch41 · Apr 16, 2011

livingbygrace said:

The answer can you find in Is 44:6
6 Thus said the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God .
There is one GOD, and He is called YHWH.. revealed in 3 persons. Tell me, is Jesus the King of Israel?

Did you answer my question fully? Who sent who in Zech 2:8-9. Don't play games.. and accuse me that you answer my question fully.. Now it is your turn to give the explanation of the verse I gave you..

If God said.. there isn't another God than there is one God.. God became FULLY AND FULLY AND FULLY AND FULLY AND FULLY AND FULLY HUMAN A HUMAN LIKE YOU AND I... AND HE HAD TO BE RESTORE IN HIS POSITION...

But to make it complete for you: The explanation of the verse:

But to the Son he said, Your throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of your kingdom. Thou hast loved righteousness and hated iniquity; therefore God, even Thy God, hath anointed Thee with the oil of gladness above Thy fellows."

The writer of the book of Hebrew quote from the marriagepsalm 45. Because the sceptre of this King is a sceptre of righteousness (Is 11:4) and that King loved righteousness and hate iniquinty, anointed God Him with oil of joy. And it isn’t mentioned an anointing for a King, but God [FONT=&quot]pour a tremendous amount of joy out of Hii. Like is written in Isaiah 61:3. (oil of joy instead of mourning) The verb for thou [/FONT]loved righteousness and thou hated iniquity is what we called to the aoristus.. a pointing to a concrete happening what took place in the past. Here it is pointed at the life and death from Christ. Jesus fulfilled the righteousness with His dead at the cross and He didn’t sinned (Heb 4:15). That’s why He received a lot of joy and glory of God. (Heb 12:2)[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

Dutch41 · Apr 16, 2011

Red33 said:

Well it isn't an exercise for me. I am aware that people read the this and the doctrine like JW and like people like Savedbygrace. But, for me the price that Jesus paid is very high.. And I pointed at the fallacy in the doctrine. I know I can't change Saved his view, and that isn't my purpose. But like you see, he made strange moves to prove him self in his vision.

Jesus Christ was God manifest in the Flesh

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