Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation, there is no Left Behind Secret Rapture=Stop causing fear.

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Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Technically, the man of sin is revealed before the Coming of the Lord. Nowhere does Scripture claim at the Beginning, but it does claim more towards the middle. It's not till midpoint we see the False Prophet ordering to take the Mark. It is possible we Believers and Followers of God could recognize the man of sin before he is revealed, but Scripture does not make such a claim.

To say, many of us see this at the Beginning, does not align with Scripture, but there is also no Scripture that tells us we won't be able to recognize him before he is revealed.

Your post is one that cannot be proven in any way. And honestly, I don't see not why that we won't be able to recognize him before he is revealed. But that is solely based upon the "could be" factor, not an actual fact.
I agree, rev 11

5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

If any man hurt the 2 witnesses he will be killed, so I believe the antichrist reveal after 42 month of 2 witnesses otherwise if the antichrist hurt the two witnesses because not take the mark of the beast, the 2 w will kill him
 
Jul 23, 2018
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I believe this is an insightful comment. I do believe in a posttrib rapture, just not in the traditional sense. 1 Thess. 5:9 speaks about God not intending the church to suffer his wrath. Yes, Noah was present during God's judgement, but of course did not suffer it. Noah was kept hidden in the Lord during this time of wrath. Your comment caused me to interpret 1 Thess. 5:9 more clearly. The tribulation or suffering we will continue to go through in the midst of Daniel's 70th week is perhaps part of a general Day of the Lord before great tribulation comes to Israel.

I have come to believe in a multiple rapture theory. I do think the first harpazo event will take place after the tribulation of the time of sorrows mentioned in Matthew 24:4-8 within Daniel's 70th week. The second rapture event will occur for the remnant of Israel and other gentiles who come to the Lord and survive the great tribulation. Then the prophesied Day of the Lord will begin.

I know many who believe in pre-trib claim we are not in Daniel's 70th week. It seems quite clear we are experiencing Matthew 24:4-8 now. I don't agree that the entirety of Matthew 24 applies only to the remnant of Israel. I hold to the view that this is a parallel to Revelation 6 and that we are now in Daniel's 70th week. The acceptance of this view, in part,” observes John McLean, “is dependent on how much weight is given to the parallels between the synoptics and Revelation.” 6 Since all futurists see the Olivet Discourse as parallel to Revelation to some degree, it makes sense that these two portions of Scripture would be focused on the same basic time period—the tribulation (Daniel's 70th week). I don't see the Daniel 9:27 verse as sufficient evidence to state that the confirming of the covenant with many begins Daniel's 70th week. In my view, the church will be glorified in the midst of Daniel's 70th week during a time of judgement that could be called the DOL in the OT sense. This glorification of the church (Isaiah 60:1-3, Daniel 12:1-3) Ken Peters witnessed in his "vision of the tribulation." The first harpazo event will occur after many come to the Lord Jesus. Others, will becomes martyrs according to Revelation 2:10 as they face persecution from Mystery Babylon.
Yes multiple rapture.
I do agree.

I have heard ken peters speak.
His dream vividly depicts a pretrib rapture
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
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I believe this is an insightful comment. I do believe in a posttrib rapture, just not in the traditional sense. 1 Thess. 5:9 speaks about God not intending the church to suffer his wrath. Yes, Noah was present during God's judgement, but of course did not suffer it. Noah was kept hidden in the Lord during this time of wrath. Your comment caused me to interpret 1 Thess. 5:9 more clearly. The tribulation or suffering we will continue to go through in the midst of Daniel's 70th week is perhaps part of a general Day of the Lord before great tribulation comes to Israel.

I have come to believe in a multiple rapture theory. I do think the first harpazo event will take place after the tribulation of the time of sorrows mentioned in Matthew 24:4-8 within Daniel's 70th week. The second rapture event will occur for the remnant of Israel and other gentiles who come to the Lord and survive the great tribulation. Then the prophesied Day of the Lord will begin.

I know many who believe in pre-trib claim we are not in Daniel's 70th week. It seems quite clear we are experiencing Matthew 24:4-8 now. I don't agree that the entirety of Matthew 24 applies only to the remnant of Israel. I hold to the view that this is a parallel to Revelation 6 and that we are now in Daniel's 70th week. The acceptance of this view, in part,” observes John McLean, “is dependent on how much weight is given to the parallels between the synoptics and Revelation.” 6 Since all futurists see the Olivet Discourse as parallel to Revelation to some degree, it makes sense that these two portions of Scripture would be focused on the same basic time period—the tribulation (Daniel's 70th week). I don't see the Daniel 9:27 verse as sufficient evidence to state that the confirming of the covenant with many begins Daniel's 70th week. In my view, the church will be glorified in the midst of Daniel's 70th week during a time of judgement that could be called the DOL in the OT sense. This glorification of the church (Isaiah 60:1-3, Daniel 12:1-3) Ken Peters witnessed in his "vision of the tribulation." The first harpazo event will occur after many come to the Lord Jesus. Others, will becomes martyrs according to Revelation 2:10 as they face persecution from Mystery Babylon.
my post flood comment was derrogatory.

Nowhere was anyone raptured post flood.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
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Technically, the man of sin is revealed before the Coming of the Lord. Nowhere does Scripture claim at the Beginning, but it does claim more towards the middle. It's not till midpoint we see the False Prophet ordering to take the Mark. It is possible we Believers and Followers of God could recognize the man of sin before he is revealed, but Scripture does not make such a claim.

To say, many of us see this at the Beginning, does not align with Scripture, but there is also no Scripture that tells us we won't be able to recognize him before he is revealed.

Your post is one that cannot be proven in any way. And honestly, I don't see not why that we won't be able to recognize him before he is revealed. But that is solely based upon the "could be" factor, not an actual fact.
"""Technically, the man of sin is revealed before the Coming of the Lord. Nowhere does Scripture claim at the Beginning"""

Well what on earth does "revealed" mean?

Not "seated"
Not " in power"
Not "3 years after we first see him or hear about him"

"Revealed" means exactly that.
Revealed means revealed.

The ac is revealed to the church then a short time later is the main rapture.

It says what it says.
Revealed...then the rapture

Revealed then immediately the rapture .

Fits pretrib rapture like a glove.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,885
2,112
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Technically, the man of sin is revealed before the Coming of the Lord. Nowhere does Scripture claim at the Beginning, but it does claim more towards the middle.
Really? You sure about that? and that it's not just what you are assuming to be the case?

It's not till midpoint we see the False Prophet ordering to take the Mark.
I think most of us agree with that point.

It is possible we Believers and Followers of God could recognize the man of sin before he is revealed, but Scripture does not make such a claim.
Yeah, I do not see such a thing at all

[meaning... distinct points in time for those ^ . No.]

But it sounds as though you are just saying, "[It is possible]... recognize the man of sin before he is revealed [with his being "revealed" MORE TOWARDS THE MIDDLE]"... when no Scripture declares that he is "revealed" towards the middle (in any of those passages I listed, among others)

Where are you suggesting that Scripture makes the claim that he is "revealed" more towards the middle?

Aren't you just assuming that 2Th2:4, as a part of that "middle," is the point in time when he is [also] "revealed"?

To say, many of us see this at the Beginning, does not align with Scripture, but there is also no Scripture that tells us we won't be able to recognize him before he is revealed.
You're simply saying this as though operating under the assumption that he will be "revealed" more towards the middle... but Scripture does not make such a claim. You've merely assumed it to be true (and I acknowledge that many others also assume the same, and then mindlessly repeat the matter as though it is fact).


Your post is one that cannot be proven in any way. And honestly, I don't see not why that we won't be able to recognize him before he is revealed. But that is solely based upon the "could be" factor, not an actual fact.
This whole section ^ is your saying this, based on the assumption that he is "revealed" more towards the middle, as you said at top (in your quote above).

Why is what I said considered by you as a "could be" (assumption), but not what you've assumed to be the case: that he is "revealed" more towards the middle?

In my viewpoint, as I mentioned, the various texts covering this Subject have connecting points at the "BEGINNING" (of the 7 years)... [same for "MIDDLE" and "END" points]... and at the "BEGINNING" is (among a number of passages including Paul's 1Th5:1-3 / 2Th2:3b,9a,8a,[6b]): that the SEALS [think: Seal #1 especially] are equivalent to "the BEGINNING of birth PANGS" [think: Matt24:4 / Mk13:5 especially, as the first of those: "G5100 - tis - A CERTAIN ONE ['a certain one' bringing deception]"];

IOW, Paul in 2Th2 is covering the entire 7-year period, and not merely 3.5 years of it (per 2Th2:4), in what he is saying in that passage (not to mention the previous chpt also);

...additionally, in Scripture, elsewhere, wherever the phrases "the day of the Lord" and "IN THAT DAY" are used in close proximity, they are speaking of the SAME TIME PERIOD... and such is also the case in Paul's 2Th2 chpt and his 2Th1 chpt, where these two phrases are again used in close proximity, speaking of the SAME "future" time period (the time period in which the "man of sin" will exist, to do ALL he is slated to DO... in those "7 years"... not merely in 3.5 yrs)... There's more, but I realize ppl can only read and take in so much in a post...

...but I would say that I see more "reasoning" (from Scripture) in my viewpoint, than I see coming from your viewpoint (and believe me, I've considered it way longer than merely the brief time we've been discussing it in this thread :D )

Glad for the convo... hope to be back later, but I'm on a tight schedule so I can't promise anything = )
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Noah was not Raptured or he would not have went through the Flood period.
....but Jesus model nonetheless.
Fact...noah was Gathered safely into the ark PRETRIB
Fact....ark is a type of heaven
Fact....noah rose over a mile into the heavens atop the flood
Fact....after a season, or after the tribulation, noah returned to earth
Fact...nobody and nothing was taken or raptured postrib

Fact...your doctrine denies all of that.

Fact....you will not agree with the bible facts i just laid out.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
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Technically, the man of sin is revealed before the Coming of the Lord. Nowhere does Scripture claim at the Beginning, but it does claim more towards the middle. It's not till midpoint we see the False Prophet ordering to take the Mark. It is possible we Believers and Followers of God could recognize the man of sin before he is revealed, but Scripture does not make such a claim.

To say, many of us see this at the Beginning, does not align with Scripture, but there is also no Scripture that tells us we won't be able to recognize him before he is revealed.

Your post is one that cannot be proven in any way. And honestly, I don't see not why that we won't be able to recognize him before he is revealed. But that is solely based upon the "could be" factor, not an actual fact.
The 4 horsemen kick off the gt.
The white horseman is the ac.
He is " revealed" beforehand by God to his people....then the pretrib rapture.
Nothing there about a temple or a far fetched notion the church does not know who the white horse rider is.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,885
2,112
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The white horseman is the ac.
Right.

2Th2:9a "whose COMING [/ADVENT / ARRIVAL / PRESENCE / parousia is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders..."

[this is a distinct point in time from that of his later "who SITTETH" of v.4]






1) "whose COMING [/ARRIVAL / PRESENCE]" 2Th2:9a (BEGINNING of the 7 years)

2) "who SITTETH" 2Th2:4 (MIDDLE of the 7 years)

3) "whom the Lord shall CONSUME... shall DESTROY..." 2Th2:8b (END of the 7 years)
 
Aug 5, 2021
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my post flood comment was derrogatory.

Nowhere was anyone raptured post flood.
my post flood comment was derrogatory.

Nowhere was anyone raptured post flood.
Yes, true, nowhere was anyone raptured post flood. I was just considering how God hid Noah during that period of judgement/wrath that occurred on the earth. I see the church present in the midst of the Matthew 24:4-8 sorrows. This period of sorrows or tribulation within Daniel’s 70th week preceedes the time of judgement known as great tribulation. The remnant church will be glorified in my view ‘post-trib,’ (after a time of tribulation known as the‘time of sorrows’), and before great tribulation.

In my view, we will be glorified after the tribulation of the time of sorrows and remain hidden in the ark during this time. This is why I don’t see the vision given to Peters as a pretrib event.


my post flood comment was derrogatory.

Nowhere was anyone raptured post flood.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
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I believe this is an insightful comment. I do believe in a posttrib rapture, just not in the traditional sense. 1 Thess. 5:9 speaks about God not intending the church to suffer his wrath. Yes, Noah was present during God's judgement, but of course did not suffer it. Noah was kept hidden in the Lord during this time of wrath. Your comment caused me to interpret 1 Thess. 5:9 more clearly. The tribulation or suffering we will continue to go through in the midst of Daniel's 70th week is perhaps part of a general Day of the Lord before great tribulation comes to Israel.

I have come to believe in a multiple rapture theory. I do think the first harpazo event will take place after the tribulation of the time of sorrows mentioned in Matthew 24:4-8 within Daniel's 70th week. The second rapture event will occur for the remnant of Israel and other gentiles who come to the Lord and survive the great tribulation. Then the prophesied Day of the Lord will begin.

I know many who believe in pre-trib claim we are not in Daniel's 70th week. It seems quite clear we are experiencing Matthew 24:4-8 now. I don't agree that the entirety of Matthew 24 applies only to the remnant of Israel. I hold to the view that this is a parallel to Revelation 6 and that we are now in Daniel's 70th week. The acceptance of this view, in part,” observes John McLean, “is dependent on how much weight is given to the parallels between the synoptics and Revelation.” 6 Since all futurists see the Olivet Discourse as parallel to Revelation to some degree, it makes sense that these two portions of Scripture would be focused on the same basic time period—the tribulation (Daniel's 70th week). I don't see the Daniel 9:27 verse as sufficient evidence to state that the confirming of the covenant with many begins Daniel's 70th week. In my view, the church will be glorified in the midst of Daniel's 70th week during a time of judgement that could be called the DOL in the OT sense. This glorification of the church (Isaiah 60:1-3, Daniel 12:1-3) Ken Peters witnessed in his "vision of the tribulation." The first harpazo event will occur after many come to the Lord Jesus. Others, will becomes martyrs according to Revelation 2:10 as they face persecution from Mystery Babylon.
Right.

2Th2:9a "whose COMING [/ADVENT / ARRIVAL / PRESENCE / parousia is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders..."

[this is a distinct point in time from that of his later "who SITTETH" of v.4]






1) "whose COMING [/ARRIVAL / PRESENCE]" 2Th2:9a (BEGINNING of the 7 years)

2) "who SITTETH" 2Th2:4 (MIDDLE of the 7 years)

3) "whom the Lord shall CONSUME... shall DESTROY..." 2Th2:8b (END of the 7 years)
Amen captain.
nice post
 
Aug 5, 2021
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When God makes it a Point to show us, how much of a Tribulation that He put Noah through, that afterwards "a Righteous Man of God" gets Stupid Drunk, God is telling us to be prepared for what we will Endure through the Tribulation before His Coming to Rapture us!
I see your point and understand why some believe in one rapture after the great tribulation. I’m a multiple rapture guy myself who sees one harpazo event before and after the great tribulation. In my view, the church will endure the suffering of the time of sorrows period in Matthew 24:4-8 (within Daniel’s 70th week) just as Noah was present during that period of tribulation. Noah was hidden, and we will be hidden until our glorification according to Isaiah 60:1-3 and Daniel 12:1-3.
 
Dec 29, 2021
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Wrong...suggest you study scripture. The rapture will occur....thusly;....those dead in Christ shall rise up and be met in the air with those living in Christ and together they shall...that is the rapture.
I believe in the Rapture, but Paul said it comes at the Lord's Coming, which is the Second coming. And Jesus told us when that happens, Immediately after Tribulation.
 
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The KJV Bible says that ...He will appear and then will reveal Himself by going into the temple and declaring Himself to be God.
The Bible oriented Christian will see the AC appearing as he distinguishes himself in a power struggle...politically....before even the rapture...the KJV Bible tells me.
Agreed, but that is not at the Beginning of the Tribulation, which was the point the other poster was making.
 
Dec 29, 2021
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The pre-trib. rapture is as clear as can be presented in scriptures.
Suggest you study the KJV 1611 Bible.
You have taken an answer from Paul about will the People of Thessalinca ever see their loved ones, now dead, again and will they go to heaven, and made a Doctrine out of it.

How can you believe in Something Jesus never spoke about?
It is Him Coming, not Paul!
 
Dec 29, 2021
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I see your point and understand why some believe in one rapture after the great tribulation. I’m a multiple rapture guy myself who sees one harpazo event before and after the great tribulation. In my view, the church will endure the suffering of the time of sorrows period in Matthew 24:4-8 (within Daniel’s 70th week) just as Noah was present during that period of tribulation. Noah was hidden, and we will be hidden until our glorification according to Isaiah 60:1-3 and Daniel 12:1-3.
Interesting Viewpoint!

I believe there is only One Event and the Rapture/Second Coming is that Event.

My bottom line is God. God said He only Returns One More Time. To add another Secret Coming goes against what God already told us. If God does not say He is Coming TWO More Times, then I believe God is only Coming back One More Time, like God said.
 
Dec 29, 2021
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My bottom line is God. God said He only Returns One More Time. To add another Secret Coming goes against what God already told us. If God does not say He is Coming TWO More Times, then I believe God is only Coming back One More Time, like God said.
 
Dec 29, 2021
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Wrong...suggest you study scripture. The rapture will occur....thusly;....those dead in Christ shall rise up and be met in the air with those living in Christ and together they shall...that is the rapture.
My bottom line is God. God said He only Returns One More Time. To add another Secret Coming goes against what God already told us. If God does not say He is Coming TWO More Times, then I believe God is only Coming back One More Time, like God said.
 
Dec 29, 2021
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The pre-trib. rapture is as clear as can be presented in scriptures.
Suggest you study the KJV 1611 Bible.
My bottom line is God. God said He only Returns One More Time. To add another Secret Coming goes against what God already told us. If God does not say He is Coming TWO More Times, then I believe God is only Coming back One More Time, like God said.