Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation, there is no Left Behind Secret Rapture=Stop causing fear.

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Jocund

Jocund

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TheDivineWatermark said:
Pre-tribbers believe He only "RETURNS" one more time.

Pre-tribbers believe He "RETURNS" immediately after the Tribulation period (of 7 years' duration).





Pre-tribbers believe that His "RETURN" to the earth in Rev19 (AFTER the Trib), is spoken of in the two "RETURN" passages in the Gospels:

--"when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"... THEN the meal [G347; and its parallels, like in Matt8:11] - Luke 12:36-37,38,40,42-44,[45-48] and its parallel in Matt24:42-51; and

--"RETURN" - Luke 19:12,15,17,19, when He will deal out responsibilities having to do with "have thou authority over 10 cities" and "likewise... be thou also over 5 cities" and its parallel passage in Matthew 25:14-30 (and another, if I recall rightly)



A few things to notice about these passages ^ (not to mention all the parallels I've included here)... these passages are about His "RETURN to the earth"... and so His "RETURN" to the earth is as an ALREADY-WED Bridegroom (not for the purpose of BEING WED--*that* has already taken place by this point in the chronology)... and at the time of His "RETURN" to the earth (FOR the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom, aka "the kingdom OF THE heavenS," aka "the wedding FEAST / SUPPER," aka "the age [singular] TO COME," etc) notice that there are "saints / believers" located on the earth

(see the 8 or so "BLESSED" passages like Daniel 12:12--"BLESSED is he that waiteth and COMETH TO the 1335 days" i.e. as still-living persons / saints existing on the earth at the END of the Tribulation period... these will ENTER the MK age in their natural/mortal bodies capable of bearing children / reproducing... the ONLY ppl who will have that capacity... and of whom Jesus says, "I AM the resurrection AND THE LIFE... [...after talking about the "though he may DIE" part, goes on to say...] AND he that LIVETH and believeth in Me SHALL NEVER DIE. Believest thou this?" John 11:25-26, where Martha was acknowledging what she rightly understood about "THE LAST DAY" [i.e. the earthly MK-age time period--"Day=1000yrs"];

...the Gospels showing only believers / saints / the righteous / the Sheep / those clothed in "garments of wedding" / the "elect" / the SAVED etc as being the ones who ENTER the MK age... but those later BORN to them are not "BORN automatically righteous," and it is THESE [born to them / grandchildren / etc] who will be the ONLY ones susceptible to "DEATH" in the MK age, when "DEATH" will be much more rare in the MK reserved only for the rebellious... and who the still-living ones of those at the END of the MK age are who Satan will go forth (put of his prison [of 1000 yrs]) to "DECEIVE" (as his aim)... where Scripture indicates of these that they are: "the number whom is as the sand of the sea"; I believe it is a mistake to say these are the offspring of ppl who ENTERED the MK age as UNbelievers / UNsaved persons [tho in mortal bodies, as they are]... especially when you read what the Gospels has to say about the point in time of His "RETURN" to the earth (I've listed some of the terms and phrases that this goes by... I see no instance of UNbelievers / the UNSAVED being who "ENTER" the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age (in their mortal bodies, as they do)



Sorry for the length... maybe someone out there will be benefitted by something in this post, who knows...
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There is no evidence that any mortals exist in the 1000 year kingdom. We see the last remnant killed in the passages prior to the 1000 year kindgom and we see scripture that points towards everyone that is saved being changed. It is possible there are mortals, but not necessarily the case.

As for "a day in the eyes of the Lord" it's figurative and therefore not necessarily only 1000 years. We see the beginning of Revelation, John the revelator says "And I came in spirit to the day of the Lord". The entire Revelation sequence including the 1000 year kingdom is seemingly on the day of the Lord.
 
Absolutely

Absolutely

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Heaven_Bound said:
He said, He returns IMMEDIATELY AFTER TRIBULATION!

Are you calling Him a Liar by claiming He only returns One Time?
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No
Try again.
Said his coming would be like the days of lot

Pssst....deliverence prejudgement

Psssst...lot left.
 
H

Heaven_Bound

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Absolutely said:
No
Try again.
Said his coming would be like the days of lot

Pssst....deliverence prejudgement

Psssst...lot left.
Click to expand...
Lot left with a CONDITION to not look back.

What would happen if Lot looks back?

He dies LIKE HIS WIFE DIES.

So no escape unless he obeys!
 
Absolutely

Absolutely

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Heaven_Bound said:
He explains at His Second Coming after Tribulation His Angels "Gather." The Gathering is the Rapture.
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Bingo
Angels gather....not jesus

They gather FROM HEAVEN....NOT earth.

Definitely not the rapture
 
Absolutely

Absolutely

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Heaven_Bound said:
Where does He/Jesus specifically say Pre trib rapture or Secret Coming?
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Lot
Noah
One taken/left
Rev 19
Acts 1
Mat 25
Rev14

Just to start.

See how that is done????
When you are asked...what do you do????
 
ewq1938

ewq1938

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Jocund said:
There is no evidence that any mortals exist in the 1000 year kingdom.
Click to expand...

Of course there is. Revelation 19 says Christ will rule over them, and Revelation 2 says the overcomers will also rule over them. When the thousand years ends those same people are still there all over the Earth and satan goes to deceive them.
 
H

Heaven_Bound

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Absolutely said:
Bingo
Angels gather....not jesus

They gather FROM HEAVEN....NOT earth.

Definitely not the rapture
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At His Return AFTER Tribulation, the Angels first gather from Earth and then Heaven. Still no pre-trib Rapture.
 
H

Heaven_Bound

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Absolutely said:
Lot
Noah
One taken/left
Rev 19
Acts 1
Mat 25
Rev14

Just to start.

See how that is done????
When you are asked...what do you do????
Click to expand...
You do realize the one taken one left is the first part of Matthew 24 about the 70 A.D. Destruction?

You brought up Josephus, but NOW, don't want to use him because he connects the one left one taken?
 
ewq1938

ewq1938

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Heaven_Bound said:
You do realize the one taken one left is the first part of Matthew 24 about the 70 A.D. Destruction?
Click to expand...

The context of the one taken and one left is at the second coming. He gave many examples of what it will be like when he returns in the Olivet Discourse.

Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

So at the second coming, one will be taken and one will not be taken. It should be easy to know what that is about.
 
H

Heaven_Bound

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ewq1938 said:
The context of the one taken and one left is at the second coming. He gave many examples of what it will be like when he returns in the Olivet Discourse.

Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

So at the second coming, one will be taken and one will not be taken. It should be easy to know what that is about.
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You are correct, I had the 16-20 confused with the 40-42
 
T

TheDivineWatermark

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Heaven_Bound said:
Most pre-tribbers think they will be removed before Tribulation. And the Sinners during the Tribulation that refuse the Mark will be Beheaded.
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Allow me to finsh what I had left out of my previous post, in response to the above ^ :

--Rev20:4b is speaking of those [saints] who will have come to faith in Christ (FOLLOWING "our Rapture") when they are IN the Tribulation period... v.4b is about the ones who will be "beheaded" (or martyred during the second half);

--but Rev20:4a is a distinct group (where it says, "...thrones, and they sat upon them, and JUDGMENT WAS GIVEN UNTO THEM") who will also have come to faith during the Trib, but who will INCLUDE those "saints" who survive (as "still-living" saints) clear through to the END of the Trib and ENTER the MK age in their mortal bodies; Same folks being talked about in Daniel 7:22 "...and JUDGMENT WAS GIVEN UNTO THE SAINTS of the most High" (see the timing-wordings in vv.25c,27, aka at the END of the Trib... same BASIC time-slot as the "BLESSED" verse Dan12:12 and about 8 other "BLESSED" passages speaking to this same time-slot and issue--like Lk12:36,37,38,40,42,43,44 and its parallel in Matt24:42-51,46 "BLESSED"... and like Matthew 25:31-34 [and context] "BLESSED"... and like Rev16:14-16 "BLESSED"... and like Rev19:9 [distinct from v.7] "BLESSED"... and more... ALL regarding His Second Coming TO THE EARTH point in time / surrounding)

So, who are the Remaining Elect that Christ's Angels gather after the end of Tribulation from the Four Winds of Earth?
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Isaiah 27:12-13,[9] (its corresponding passage, for one) tells WHO, and IN WHAT MANNER they are gathered, and TO WHERE

(...and that ^ is NOT the "SNATCH [G726 - harpazo]"... but rather, corresponds with His "RETURN" to the earth FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age... aka "the kingdom OF THE heavenS" [etc other names it goes by, that I had listed out]).

These folks will have come to faith in Christ IN / DURING / WITHIN the Trib yrs (that is, FOLLOWING "our Rapture"... and as I've stated in many past posts, "our Rapture" is a PRIMARY IMPETUS that helps Israel turn to Christ in faith, and it is THEY who go on [IN the trib] to DO the "INVITING" TO "the wedding FEAST / SUPPER [/ the MK age]")
 
J

Jackson123

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TheDivineWatermark said:
Allow me to finsh what I had left out of my previous post, in response to the above ^ :

--Rev20:4b is speaking of those [saints] who will have come to faith in Christ (FOLLOWING "our Rapture") when they are IN the Tribulation period... v.4b is about the ones who will be "beheaded" (or martyred during the second half);

--but Rev20:4a is a distinct group (where it says, "...thrones, and they sat upon them, and JUDGMENT WAS GIVEN UNTO THEM") who will also have come to faith during the Trib, but who will INCLUDE those "saints" who survive (as "still-living" saints) clear through to the END of the Trib and ENTER the MK age in their mortal bodies; Same folks being talked about in Daniel 7:22 "...and JUDGMENT WAS GIVEN UNTO THE SAINTS of the most High" (see the timing-wordings in vv.25c,27, aka at the END of the Trib... same BASIC time-slot as the "BLESSED" verse Dan12:12 and about 8 other "BLESSED" passages speaking to this same time-slot and issue--like Lk12:36,37,38,40,42,43,44 and its parallel in Matt24:42-51,46 "BLESSED"... and like Matthew 25:31-34 [and context] "BLESSED"... and like Rev16:14-16 "BLESSED"... and like Rev19:9 [distinct from v.7] "BLESSED"... and more... ALL regarding His Second Coming TO THE EARTH point in time / surrounding)



Isaiah 27:12-13,[9] (its corresponding passage, for one) tells WHO, and IN WHAT MANNER they are gathered, and TO WHERE

(...and that ^ is NOT the "SNATCH [G726 - harpazo]"... but rather, corresponds with His "RETURN" to the earth FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age... aka "the kingdom OF THE heavenS" [etc other names it goes by, that I had listed out]).

These folks will have come to faith in Christ IN / DURING / WITHIN the Trib yrs (that is, FOLLOWING "our Rapture"... and as I've stated in many past posts, "our Rapture" is a PRIMARY IMPETUS that helps Israel turn to Christ in faith, and it is THEY who go on [IN the trib] to DO the "INVITING" TO "the wedding FEAST / SUPPER [/ the MK age]")
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If I correctly understand, you are pre trib, am i correct?
 
Absolutely

Absolutely

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Heaven_Bound said:
Lot left with a CONDITION to not look back.

What would happen if Lot looks back?

He dies LIKE HIS WIFE DIES.

So no escape unless he obeys!
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Oh no no no no.
Lot stayed
He was protected in sodom.
The city was destroyed. But God never takes his people out of anything.
They have to stay and be protected.
Just like the baby Jesus.
He was not removed to egypt.
The bible lied.
God never removed ANYBODY.

Oh wow, some postrib rapture erroneous spirit must have come on me.

Sorry
 
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