Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation, there is no Left Behind Secret Rapture=Stop causing fear.

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Jul 23, 2018
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Sorry, but I don’t understand what you’re asking me to do. I had almost forgotten about this thread. Are you attempting to gaslight me into thinking I said something I didn’t? Please explain yourself. Thank you.

Edit: maybe you just didn’t understand what I said. Is there something you want me to clarify?
apply your verse.
Very simple.

Learn it is not arbitrary.

Gaslighting involves hiding.
Deception

Look it up.
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
5,173
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apply your verse.
Very simple.

Learn it is not arbitrary.

Gaslighting involves hiding.
Deception

Look it up.
You’re messaging me out of the blue, commanding me to copy and paste a verse here. No thanks. If you want to add it to the thread then go ahead.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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I think you're right. It says when he comes, he brings his reward with him. People think that he's bringing a reward for "us." Not so, I believe the "his reward" is "us" as we are his reward and he is our reward.

In other words, he comes bringing his saints with him.
Exactly.
The bible is not a mental book.
 

ewq1938

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Oct 18, 2018
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2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

Paul will be addressing these two events. The first event is the second coming and the second event is the rapture.

2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

That day is the day those two events happen. Don't listen to anyone who claims this is a reference only to first event. Paul is talking about the day in which both events take place.

He is comforting these people that they should not be worried they missed the second coming and rapture. What may have caused them to think they did? The clue is in that verse, "nor by letter as from us". Paul is referencing his first letter to them. In that letter he said the second coming would be "like a thief in the night". They must have misunderstood that Christians could possibly be asleep and miss that event which includes the rapture. They must have also overlooked that Paul said Christians would not miss it, "ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief".


2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away (Apostasy away from Christ) first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

"that day" is same day of two events, second coming and rapture. Also beware of ANYONE trying to change Apostasy into a physical departure.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

Paul will be addressing these two events. The first event is the second coming and the second event is the rapture.

2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

That day is the day those two events happen. Don't listen to anyone who claims this is a reference only to first event. Paul is talking about the day in which both events take place.

He is comforting these people that they should not be worried they missed the second coming and rapture. What may have caused them to think they did? The clue is in that verse, "nor by letter as from us". Paul is referencing his first letter to them. In that letter he said the second coming would be "like a thief in the night". They must have misunderstood that Christians could possibly be asleep and miss that event which includes the rapture. They must have also overlooked that Paul said Christians would not miss it, "ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief".


2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away (Apostasy away from Christ) first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

"that day" is same day of two events, second coming and rapture. Also beware of ANYONE trying to change Apostasy into a physical departure.

That is a pretrib dynamic.
The ac revealed pretrib, not yet in power, and the rapture ALSO happening a day or so AFTER the ac REVEALED (And not yet in power)

Definitely a pretrib event.
 
Jun 12, 2021
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You are pulling the first seal out of its 32 AD context. Anyone can make the bible say almost anything if they are willing to pull verses out of their context.

Here is part of the context:

Rev. 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

Previous to this, Jesus was ABSENT from the throne room. And the Holy Spirit was still there IN the throne room. Chapters 4 & 5 tell us a story starting while Jesus was still on earth (or under the earth.) Then time passes, Jesus rose from the dead, was immediately found worthy, then ascends to heaven and sends the Holy Spirit down. All this around 32 AD. (And you imagined it was future!!!!)
Revelation is a symbolic book.
 

ewq1938

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Oct 18, 2018
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Revelation is a symbolic book.
I posted this on another forum:

It's common for somepeople to claim how symbolic Revelation is, usually saying it's the most symbolic book and "mostly symbolic" but I think that's an exaggeration. I find the book to be mostly literal like the letters to the churches and the many times John saw activities happening in heaven and on the Earth and the description of life in the eternity. There's a handful of very symbolic language like the dragon and the beasts and the winepress etc. Isn't Revelation actually more like 70-80 percent literal and maybe 20-30 percent symbolic?

All numbers in Revelation are literal and exact.

42 months is 42 months.
144,000 is 144,000.
3 and a half days is 3 and a half days.
7 seals are 7 seals.
7 trumpets are 7 trumpets.
7 vials are 7 vials.
24 elders are 24 elders.
1260 days is 1260 days.
And yes, a thousand years is a thousand years.

Amounts that are non-literal or non-exact:

Rev 5:11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;

Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
 

Runningman

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Mar 4, 2020
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https://biblehub.com/revelation/22-5.htm

Real Jesus throws a flaming fire=Earth, Sun and moon gets burned up. Judgment Day on all nonelects. Than new heaven and new earth gets created.
Thank you I appreciate that. I sure hope you can appreciate what I am about to show you. Let me know if you see anything in common here.

Isaiah 13:9-13 KJV
9Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
10For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
11And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
12I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.
13Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

Matthew 24:29 KJV
29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Revelation 6:12-14 KJV
12And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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Revelation is a symbolic book.
The Book of Revelation is of the Lord Jesus Christ

Rev 1:1

says:


1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place.

3 Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near.

The Book of Revelation is Prophetic, symbolic and literal, and figurative in the context of the text.
 
Mar 12, 2022
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You've made a tremendous start for a newbie. But you are dead wrong!

No, Jesus comes FOR His Church at the Rapture and then comes WITH His Church after the Tribulation. If that were not so, He could not come with His saints at His Second Coming.

So it looks like the fear-mongerer is you.
Scripture? The "rapture" passage is NOT about us. Paul was speaking concerning himself and of those of HIS day. WE are NOT the YE.
 
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If you love God, you will obey God. You will reject sin, when tempted.

1 John 2:15-17
King James Version


15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
 

kenallen

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Apr 8, 2022
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Left Behind Secret Rapture is a lie made up by Satan.

Remember, Left Behind Secret Rapture and rapture are two different things.

The bottom link talks about the rapture and what is rapture.

http://testallthings.com/2010/05/31/when-is-the-rapture/


The Word of God says that Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation.
Matthew 24:29-31, Mark 13:24-27, John 17:15


We don't know the exact day, time and hour of the Real Jesus Christ 2nd Coming, but we do know the signs.

Before the Real Jesus Christ comes back: Great earthquake that shakes Earth and Heaven, sun shall be turned into darkness, moon into blood, stars shall withdraw their shining, heaven rolled like a scroll, every mountain and island moved out of their places, great hail out of heaven pelting on some of Satan's children on earth.

Isaiah 13:9-13, Ezekiel 38:19-23, Joel 2:10-11, Joel 2:30-32, Haggai 2:6, 21, Matthew 24:29-34, Matthew 24:35, Mark 13:24-29, Mark 13:31, Acts 2:19-20, Luke 21:25-33 and Hebrews 12:26-28, Revelation 6:12-17, Compare Daniel 7:13-14, 27, Ezekiel 13:13, Revelation 11:15-19, Revelation 16:17-21

http://repent5610.blogspot.com/2012/12/there-is-no-secret-rapture.html

If you are interested in freedom from sin and how do we receive the Holy Spirit? read below.
After God gave me the Holy Spirit, I found proof that TV, movies, novels, music, video games and computer games are all sins, except Christian stuff that don’t have sins like sermons and Christian music words that gives messages. I found out that in them there is lying, stealing, adultery (Matthew 5:28 looking at someone with lust is adultery), fornication which is sex before marriage, revenge, murder, jealousy, pride=self-pity, hypocrisy, using God’s name in vain as a curse word, they are all idols (breaks 2nd Commandment) because most people can’t live without them and they love them more than God and more. Just read the 10 commandments for a list.


1 John 2:15 King James Version (KJV)


15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 New King James Version

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.


Now I will be preaching about how to receive the Holy Spirit and be 100% going to Heaven.

First, it’s only by the grace of God that he gives you faith in Jesus Christ in order to give up your sins. It’s only by the grace of God that he leads you to pray to him to destroy all your evil desires of watching TV or any sinful desires. When you pray to God to destroy all your evil desires of watching TV or sinful desires (Romans 6:6-7 and Galatians 5:24), Satan will intervene and extremely tempt you in watching the TV. But if it’s God’s will and if you are one of God’s elects, you will overcome it and God will destroy all your evil desires of watching TV. After God has destroyed all your evil desires of watching TV and if you are one of God’s elects, you receive the joy of the Holy Spirit for about 40 minutes. After the joy wears off, all existence of boredom no longer exists and you no longer burn out (psychology) anymore. That is when you have received the Holy Spirit.

Then it’s by the grace of God that he forgives you of your sins, as you confess and repent of your sins throughout your life which is called sanctification. But you can watch Christian stuff that don’t have sins (Like sermons) because that helps you grow more mature as a Christian spiritually and for more information about this sermon, go to spreadthegospel59.wordpress.com then go to
The short version of “To be free from sin (sin deceives and hurts everyone) and how do we receive the Holy Spirit?”


Why does God hate sin? | GotQuestions.org
What does it mean that “you were bought with a price” (1 Corinthians 6:20; 7:23)? | GotQuestions.org
Sin Will Never Make You Happy
(What does the Bible say about hypocrisy? | GotQuestions.org)
Gives thanks to God, that you are free from sin (sin deceives=never satisfied no matter how many times you do it,
gives pain, makes you guilty, go from bad to worse)
if you are one of God’s elect, to fight off self-pity is to give thanks to God for everything. What does the Bible say about self-pity? | GotQuestions.org
Is eternal security a “license” to sin? | GotQuestions.org


The reason why am hated for no reason since I were physically born and never fit in is because am one of God’s elects. (John 15:18-19)


Just so you know Jesus had to carry all of God’s elects sins and endure the punishment for God’s elects sins which is Hellfire spiritually, which is extreme love and mercy.
Go to the bottom website, for better explanation.
https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/jesus-eternal-punishment-hours/
Hang in there I am with you. Alot of people just can not seam to get that Jesus returnes once and only once and that is at the 7th trump.
 

kenallen

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Apr 8, 2022
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I do not thank that most people have read the answer to the parable of the wheat and the tears. Jesus says the reapers come to gather the tares, The children of Satan out of the field "world" first then Jesus returnes
The Parable of the Tares Explained
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.”
37 He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!
 

kenallen

Active member
Apr 8, 2022
437
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28
I posted this on another forum:

It's common for somepeople to claim how symbolic Revelation is, usually saying it's the most symbolic book and "mostly symbolic" but I think that's an exaggeration. I find the book to be mostly literal like the letters to the churches and the many times John saw activities happening in heaven and on the Earth and the description of life in the eternity. There's a handful of very symbolic language like the dragon and the beasts and the winepress etc. Isn't Revelation actually more like 70-80 percent literal and maybe 20-30 percent symbolic?

All numbers in Revelation are literal and exact.

42 months is 42 months.
144,000 is 144,000.
3 and a half days is 3 and a half days.
7 seals are 7 seals.
7 trumpets are 7 trumpets.
7 vials are 7 vials.
24 elders are 24 elders.
1260 days is 1260 days.
And yes, a thousand years is a thousand years.

Amounts that are non-literal or non-exact:

Rev 5:11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;

Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Tribulation Shortened to 5 Months
The tribulation was shortened to a 5 month period by our Father. The Lord shortened the time for the elect’s sake. 5=Grace. Our Father is showing us grace
Mar_13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
Christ brings in Daniel 9:27 to this time frame, what will be happening just before Christ’s return:
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Christ brought in this time period, when He spoke on Daniel 9:27
Christ, speaking on the same subject, that being the trib..shows the time has been shortened:
Mar 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect’s sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
Again:
Mar_13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
Dr. Moffatt caught the word “desolation” should be “desolator” (The “desolator” standing where “he” ought not.) He makes “desolation” not a condition, but an entity=desolator.
The word “he” and “it” are the same in the Greek. The subject discussed determines he value of the word.
The desolator is satan, himself. This is when satan will be here with his angels.
Rev 9
Rev 9:5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
Rev 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

Abaddon” in the Hebrew is:
G3
Ἀβαδδών
Abaddōn

REPORT THIS AD

ab-ad-dohn’
Of Hebrew origin [H11]; a destroying angel: – Abaddon.
H11
אבדּון
‘ăbaddôn
ab-ad-done’
Intensively from H6; abstractly a perishing; concretely Hades: –

Who is the destroying angel? Satan

Apollyon” in the Greek:
G623
ֱ̓נןככץ́שם
Apolluōn
ap-ol-loo’-ohn
Active participle of G622; a destroyer (that is, Satan): – Apollyon.
This is when satan and his angels are kicked out of heaven:
Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.