Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation, there is no Left Behind Secret Rapture=Stop causing fear.

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ewq1938

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Oct 18, 2018
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The true chronology is that the rapture, coming just before wrath, is just before the 6th seal start of God's wrath.

You are correct the rapture precedes God's wrath, but the 6th seal doesn't start that wrath. It mentions the wrath but it is a vision of the future. All the seals are. Jesus opens all 7 while remaining in heaven. He doesn't leave when opening the 6th seal. So, the real second coming and rapture happens when the 7th trump sounds. After that the wrath begins as Revelation 11 declares. The wrath cannot start at the 6th seal and the 7th trump.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Here it clearly states that God's wrath has come after the 7th trump sounds. Clearly God's wrath hadn't been coming for a long time before this or else the statement would be meaningless.
 

lamad

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Apr 14, 2021
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What verse say pre trib rapture
What verse says "trinity?"
In fact, what verse says "rapture" in English?
Maybe you are expecting too much.

What chapter in Revelation did John write of a huge crowd, too large to number?
 

lamad

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Apr 14, 2021
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You are correct the rapture precedes God's wrath, but the 6th seal doesn't start that wrath. It mentions the wrath but it is a vision of the future. All the seals are. Jesus opens all 7 while remaining in heaven. He doesn't leave when opening the 6th seal. So, the real second coming and rapture happens when the 7th trump sounds. After that the wrath begins as Revelation 11 declares. The wrath cannot start at the 6th seal and the 7th trump.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Here it clearly states that God's wrath has come after the 7th trump sounds. Clearly God's wrath hadn't been coming for a long time before this or else the statement would be meaningless.
So the DAY of His wrath starts - but He really is not yet angry. I doubt it.
 

Jackson123

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Feb 6, 2014
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What verse says "trinity?"
In fact, what verse says "rapture" in English?
Maybe you are expecting too much.

What chapter in Revelation did John write of a huge crowd, too large to number?
We are not on trinity topic
Why use a bible text that did not say pre trib rapture to say it is about pre trib rapture
 

Jackson123

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Feb 6, 2014
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What verse says "trinity?"
Can I use john 3 ;16 as a basic verse for trinity?
Than explain why this verse say trinity?

What verse in 1 tes talking about pre trib rapture explain why
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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where is the postrib rapture in scripture????
Matt 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

2 Tess 2

2 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. 3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

Now give me pre rapture verse
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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Matt 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Completely and entirely EARTHLY-located ^ ...:

--LIKE: Jer49:36 - "36 And upon Elam will I bring the four winds from the four quarters of heaven, and will scatter them toward all those winds; and there shall be no nation whither the outcasts of Elam shall not come."

--CORRESPONDING WITH: Isaiah 27:12-13,[9] "gathered ONE BY ONE, O ye children OF ISRAEL"... "to worship the Lord in the holy mount AT JERUSALEM"

--CORRESPONDING ALSO WITH: Isaiah 27:9 / Daniel 9:24-27,24 "thy [Daniel's] people" / Romans 11:27 (v.25's "blindness [/a hardening]... UNTIL"; v.15's "what shall the receiving of them [Israel] be, but LIFE FROM THE DEAD" (see ALSO Ezek37:12-14,20-23 where STILL-LIVING persons [of Israel] are LIKENED UNTO "a resurrection," when THEY are brought up out of the graveyard of nations, WHERE SCATTERED ; see also SAME in Hosea 5:14-6:3 and Isa26:15-21 and Dan12:1-4, etc etc)


2 Tess 2
2 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. 3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.
Study the phrase "the Day of the Lord" and what ALL that entails.

From your interpretation, I see you are missing that.

Now give me pre rapture verse
 

Runningman

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Mar 4, 2020
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Completely and entirely EARTHLY-located ^ ...:

--LIKE: Jer49:36 - "36 And upon Elam will I bring the four winds from the four quarters of heaven, and will scatter them toward all those winds; and there shall be no nation whither the outcasts of Elam shall not come."

--CORRESPONDING WITH: Isaiah 27:12-13,[9] "gathered ONE BY ONE, O ye children OF ISRAEL"... "to worship the Lord in the holy mount AT JERUSALEM"

--CORRESPONDING ALSO WITH: Isaiah 27:9 / Daniel 9:24-27,24 "thy [Daniel's] people" / Romans 11:27 (v.25's "blindness [/a hardening]... UNTIL"; v.15's "what shall the receiving of them [Israel] be, but LIFE FROM THE DEAD" (see ALSO Ezek37:12-14,20-23 where STILL-LIVING persons [of Israel] are LIKENED UNTO "a resurrection," when THEY are brought up out of the graveyard of nations, WHERE SCATTERED ; see also SAME in Hosea 5:14-6:3 and Isa26:15-21 and Dan12:1-4, etc etc)




Study the phrase "the Day of the Lord" and what ALL that entails.

From your interpretation, I see you are missing that.
The coming of Jesus Christ and the day of the Lord and intimately linked and occur within close proximity. They are not the same event, but they occur simultaneously. The day of the Lord will not begin until after the church has been gathered to Christ, the church will not be gathered to Christ until the coming of Jesus Christ.

The coming of Christ and the subsequent day of the Lord does not occur until there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed. The coming of Christ is characterized by destroying "that Wicked" with the brightness of his coming.

In a nutshell, this means that Jesus does not return, the church is not gathered, and the day of the Lord does not begin until after the end of the period we call the "great tribulation."

The reference text for this is 2 Thess. 2.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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In a nutshell, this means that Jesus does not return, the church is not gathered, and the day of the Lord does not begin until after the end of the period we call the "great tribulation."
--the phrases "the day of the Lord" (2:2) and "IN THAT DAY" (1:10c) refer (throughout Scripture) to the SAME time-period (and requiring TIME *prior to* His RETURN to the earth);

--Paul says that it "ARRIVES" "exactly like [G5618 - hosper]" the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" (1Th5:2-3) that COMES UPON a woman... (see what Jesus says THAT ONE IS: Matt24:4 / Mk13:5 "G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE' ['a certain one' BRINGING DECEPTION]"--which is at a point WELL-PRIOR TO [i.e. the 7 yrs prior to] His "Matt24:29-31" RETURN to the earth);

--"the beginning of birth PANGS [plural]" EQUIVALENT TO the "SEALS" of Rev6, in the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time period (which is the "7 yrs"), per Rev1:1 / 1:19c / 4:1 (the FUTURE aspects of the Book);

--"the beginning of birth PANGS" (Matt24:4-8 / Mk13:5-8 / Lk21:8-11) according to Lk21:12's "But BEFORE ALL THESE [*before* all these "beginning of birth PANGS"]," the "70ad events" of verses 12-24b must take place FIRST; making "the beginning of birth PANGS [plural]" to commence AFTER the "70ad events" (but not immediately after, according to this passage and the other related "chronology / sequence" passages; and the numerous related "UNTIL" passages... placing these "beginning of birth PANGS [plural]" at the ARRIVAL of the TRIBULATION PERIOD / "7 year period" leading UP TO His "RETURN" to the earth in Rev19)

The reference text for this is 2 Thess. 2.
The "false conveyors" Paul refers to in 2Th2:2 were NOT saying/purporting "that CHRIST HIMSELF has already come," nor "that HIS KINGDOM had already come/arrived".

Rather, they were saying/purporting "that THE DAY OF THE LORD is present / is already here" (which the Thessalonians could legit be CONVINCED of [tho untrue] because of the "persecutions and tribulations ye ENDURE" 2Th1:4, which made it a VERY REASONABLE THING for them to be [incorrectly] convinced WAS TRUE! They were NOT being convinced by something WITHOUT A SHRED OF EVIDENCE anywhere in sight! And Paul had said earlier that they definitely already grasped the manner of its "ARRIVAL" ["ye KNOW PERFECTLY" 1Th5:1-3], i.e. they were NOT IGNORANT, as some would have us believe of them!)

("[purporting that] the DOTL is present / is already here" i.e. the JUDGMENT ASPECTS that well-*precede* His actual RETURN to the earth in Rev19... i.e. the "7-yrs-worth" of His "STANDING to JUDGE"-Rev5:6 / Isa3:13 / 2Th1:8 "in flaming fire INFLICTING VENGEANCE ON those..." / Lam2:3-4 = 2Th2:7b-8a / 9a,4a = Dan11:36, and more... all of which are describing a period of TIME / things which will unfold upon the earth OVER SOME TIME [i.e. the 7 yr period leading UP TO His RETURN to the earth]...

...SAME TIME PERIOD as when will occur the 2Th2:10-12 "God shall SEND TO THEM great delusion, IN ORDER THAT they should believe the LIE / the FALSE / the PSEUDEI..."... which involves TIME!!! [not MERELY the singular "24-hr day" of His "RETURN" to the earth, as though "the DOTL" commenced AT THAT POINT only. NO! (tho indeed it INCLUDES that point, as well as including the entire MK age also!<--but neither of these are its "ARRIVAL" point in time, as Paul clearly shows in 1Th5:1-3... [parallel Jesus' words in Matt24:4 / Mk13:5!! at the START of the Trib Yrs, not its END-POINT!])])
 

Absolutely

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Jul 23, 2018
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Matt 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

2 Tess 2

2 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. 3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

Now give me pre rapture verse
You just posted a verse showing Jesus coming on horses postrib But angels gather...not Jesus. And they ( not Jesus) gather them FROM HEAVEN. Not earth

Then another saying the ac is only revealed, not in power or seated pretrib.

So yes we agree that Jesus returns postrib with the saints.

And we also agree the AC is revealed pretrib along with an immediate pretrib rapture.

So your verses line up perfectly with the pretrib rapture position.
Fits like a glove!