Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation, there is no Left Behind Secret Rapture=Stop causing fear.

[pumpkinbread1567]

5. The marriage ceremony occurs.
6. Christ returns to earth with His bride.

See, this is the part that's impossible, and becomes to sound like a shady doctrine.

First of all, the bride that is to be ready for Jesus is new "Jerusalem" (Rev 21:2). And she is to be ready through the righteous acts of the saints (Rev 19:8). And you know who those saints are?

• (Rev 3:12) The one who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will never again leave it. Upon him I will write the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God (the new Jerusalem that comes down out of heaven from My God), and My new name.

It's those that will overcome this period of Seven Churches.
Through the seven churches that go through tribulation, His bride will be prepared as though they are offerings made by fire to God.

Help yourself to also learn about the Jewish marriage tradition second of all.
Here is roughly what happens.

1. The son to be groom will redeem the wife-to-be woman as bride
2. He goes back to his father to prepare room for wife
3. AT NIGHT, the groom makes a shout before returning to wife to get her.
4. The bride PREPARES
5. The groom and his male companions and the bride and her female companions unite and go back to groom's father.

When all of this is considered along with the fact that the "bride" is the ones that go through the Seven Churches period, it's basically impossible to think of a rapture moment before that tribulation-before the seven churches prepare.

 

[pumpkinbread1567]

1. The Lord descends in the clouds and raises those who have died in Christ

Also, the Resurrection will be at the last trumpet (1 Cor 15:52). Do you have anything to suggest that this will be before the Fifth seal (the killing of believers)?

 

[pumpkinbread1567]

-Christ already started his the symbolic 1000 year spiritual kingdom when Christ ascended to Heaven after his resurrection.

There you go.
That's a false doctrine. For 3 reasons:

1. John saw the souls of "those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands."

Before their Resurrection, the beast and its mark has to have come. And the verb forms are past tense (aorist), so the 1000yr reign must begin after the time of beast.

​

2. If you say that the 1000 yr reign is spiritual, the you'd have to say the Resurrection will also be spiritual, and it's already happened. And because the Resurrection is real and about the transformation of old bodies, that is wrong.​

3. the Millennial reign is another way of saying "Day of the Lord" for the simple fact that a day with the Lord is as a thousand yrs (- Peter). If you say the Millennial kingdom has already come, it's the same as saying, "the Day of the Lord has already come," and the same saying is warned of by apostle Paul.​

​

If the 1000yr kingdom had not come at the time of Paul, then HOW could you say, "it's already come"?

I don't know how people reach this type of conclusions, but it's nothing short of corruption. And it's concerning.

 

[ewq1938]

There you go.
That's a false doctrine. For 3 reasons:

1. John saw the souls of "those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands."

Before their Resurrection, the beast and its mark has to have come. And the verb forms are past tense (aorist), so the 1000yr reign must begin after the time of beast.

​

2. If you say that the 1000 yr reign is spiritual, the you'd have to say the Resurrection will also be spiritual, and it's already happened. And because the Resurrection is real and about the transformation of old bodies, that is wrong.​

3. the Millennial reign is another way of saying "Day of the Lord" for the simple fact that a day with the Lord is as a thousand yrs (- Peter). If you say the Millennial kingdom has already come, it's the same as saying, "the Day of the Lord has already come," and the same saying is warned of by apostle Paul.​

​

If the 1000yr kingdom had not come at the time of Paul, then HOW could you say, "it's already come"?

I don't know how people reach this type of conclusions, but it's nothing short of corruption. And it's concerning.

Agreed.

 

[soberxp]

Just believe one day you will meet Jesus in heaven.Why have to care about the process.
If need to sleep then meet Jesus,so be it.
If need to catch up,so be it.

 

[pumpkinbread1567]

Those who have been born again.

Those who have not been born again.

I don't know if you're on pre or post side, but basically you're saying that everyone including the ones undergoing tribulation will be considered part of the bigger "church", yes? (If not, please give a reason(s) )

So if someone said "Jesus comes to get the Church" before the beast/antichrist period while he identifies the Church to be all born-again, then he'd be making a statement of a paradox, right?

 

[pumpkinbread1567]

Just believe one day you will meet Jesus in heaven.Why have to care about the process.
If need to sleep then meet Jesus,so be it.
If need to catch up,so be it.

That's not the point. If someone claimed a false witness, saying, "Here He is!", making it out to be Second Coming when it's not real Jesus, but compelled some people to follow him, he'd be putting their lives in danger. This is an enough reason to discuss (with only those that believe pre-trib.)

 

[pumpkinbread1567]

Then after sixty two seven year periods (434 years) the Messiah would be cut off, which is Christ Crucified. The Lord was cut off at the end of the sixty nineth seven

You've claimed a paradox in your own statements. The first part is true: after the 62 weeks (total of 69 weeks), Messiah was cut off. But the second part is wrong: Messiah wasn't cut off at the end of 62 weeks.

You stated AFTER and AT THE END. You're basically stating Messiah was cut off twice. impossible.

 

[pumpkinbread1567]

@Ahwatukee
The end of 69th was followed by the donkey arrival. Read Dan Ch. 9 carefully. Angel said, "From the issuance (...) to Messiah the prince will be 7 weeks and 62 weeks, (...) and after the 62 weeks will the Messiah be cut off, but not for himself." The crucifixion was 3.5 years after the 69th.

I do not say the 70 weeks were fully completed, however. But the Day of Atonement was at Jubilee (release), so it truly should've been fulfilled with crucifixion. I don't know where the last 3.5 yrs went tho.

 

[pumpkinbread1567]

@Ahwatukee
Perhaps it's preserved for 42 months of two witnesses. IDK honestly

 

[Chris1975]

So, I ask this question to all:

There seems to be this common belief that the bride of Christ is "the church", but while it is theologically, she's technically Jerusalem according to John's Revelations.

• So what do you guys mean by "the church"?
• As some people claim that some believers will be taken up for marriage, and the rest will go through tribulation and won't be eligible for marriage, do you exclude a certain group of people from "the church"?

The bride is the 5 wise virgins. There are also 5 foolish virgins. All 10 virgins are the church. only 5 are the bride. The church living in disobedience are the foolish ones, who have not repented of her sins. A further refining is required, at the hand of the Antichrist, who will put to death all those who follow Christ. God gives the Antichrist this authority as per the book of Daniel to accomplish this.

In any harvest, not the entire field is harvested. The owner of the field leaves behind the gleanings.

 

[Runningman]

Here is the excerpt from post #95

"Those saints who make it alive through the entire period of wrath, will enter into the millennial kingdom in their mortal bodies, along with the remnant of Israel and will repopulate the earth during the millennial kingdom."

I'm not so sure about that either.

1 Corinthians 15:51 says that not everyone will be "sleeping" or, in other words, deceased. That would mean that some people will be alive prior to being "changed."

1 Corinthians 15:51
51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed

Description of how raptured saints will be changed:
1 Corinthians 15:53-54
53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

We will be like Christ when He appears:
1 John 3:2
2Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

It sounds like to me that the resurrected church and the living church will both undergo the same kind of change to receive a glorified body.

Question:
Which verse(s) say, or suggest living, raptured, saints will retain a full flesh& blood body capable of marriage and reproduction?

 

[John146]

See, this is the part that's impossible, and becomes to sound like a shady doctrine.

First of all, the bride that is to be ready for Jesus is new "Jerusalem" (Rev 21:2). And she is to be ready through the righteous acts of the saints (Rev 19:8). And you know who those saints are?

• (Rev 3:12) The one who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will never again leave it. Upon him I will write the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God (the new Jerusalem that comes down out of heaven from My God), and My new name.

It's those that will overcome this period of Seven Churches.
Through the seven churches that go through tribulation, His bride will be prepared as though they are offerings made by fire to God.

Help yourself to also learn about the Jewish marriage tradition second of all.
Here is roughly what happens.

1. The son to be groom will redeem the wife-to-be woman as bride
2. He goes back to his father to prepare room for wife
3. AT NIGHT, the groom makes a shout before returning to wife to get her.
4. The bride PREPARES
5. The groom and his male companions and the bride and her female companions unite and go back to groom's father.

When all of this is considered along with the fact that the "bride" is the ones that go through the Seven Churches period, it's basically impossible to think of a rapture moment before that tribulation-before the seven churches prepare.

Thanks for your opinions...

 

[John146]

See, this is the part that's impossible, and becomes to sound like a shady doctrine.

First of all, the bride that is to be ready for Jesus is new "Jerusalem" (Rev 21:2). And she is to be ready through the righteous acts of the saints (Rev 19:8). And you know who those saints are?

• (Rev 3:12) The one who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will never again leave it. Upon him I will write the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God (the new Jerusalem that comes down out of heaven from My God), and My new name.

It's those that will overcome this period of Seven Churches.
Through the seven churches that go through tribulation, His bride will be prepared as though they are offerings made by fire to God.

Help yourself to also learn about the Jewish marriage tradition second of all.
Here is roughly what happens.

1. The son to be groom will redeem the wife-to-be woman as bride
2. He goes back to his father to prepare room for wife
3. AT NIGHT, the groom makes a shout before returning to wife to get her.
4. The bride PREPARES
5. The groom and his male companions and the bride and her female companions unite and go back to groom's father.

When all of this is considered along with the fact that the "bride" is the ones that go through the Seven Churches period, it's basically impossible to think of a rapture moment before that tribulation-before the seven churches prepare.

If you believe the church goes through the tribulation, then I have to ask, which part of the church? What part of Christ’s body goes through the time of Jacob’s Trouble? All of His body? Part of His body?

 

[soberxp]

That's not the point. If someone claimed a false witness, saying, "Here He is!", making it out to be Second Coming when it's not real Jesus, but compelled some people to follow him, he'd be putting their lives in danger. This is an enough reason to discuss (with only those that believe pre-trib.)

He is here with us.
and he has return.
you believe or not,
that's not my fault.

 

[Mem]

1 Corinthians 5:15 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep (not all), but we shall all (all) be changed...

There's that word "all" again, that means all that are "we,"
and the context goes on to say it happens 'in the twinkling of an eye,' not progressively

 

[soberxp]

1 Corinthians 5:15 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep (not all), but we shall all (all) be changed...

There's that word "all" again, that means all that are "we"

We shall all be changed as one spiritual body To unite with the Jesus Christ.

 

[Mem]

We shall all be changed as one spiritual body To unite with the Jesus Christ.

and forever be (together) with the LORD. Amen.

 

[CS1]

https://testallthings.com/2009/06/05/a-study-of-revelation-13/amp/

Only nonelect receive mark of the beast 666.

It is impossible for God’s elects to “worship the beast and his image and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand”.

• Only God's elects will get to Heaven for sure 100% because God will give them the Holy Spirit. (Psalm 37:28, John 6:37, John 10:27-29, Romans 8:35-39, Ephesians 1:11-14, 1 Peter 1:5)

Ephesians 1:13-14 King James Version (KJV)
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Revelation 7:3
Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

https://testallthings.com/2010/05/31/when-is-the-rapture/

If you are interested in freedom from sin and how do we receive the Holy Spirit? read below.
After God gave me the Holy Spirit, I found proof that TV, movies, novels, music, video games and computer games are all sins, except Christian stuff that don’t have sins like sermons and Christian music words that gives messages. I found out that in them there is lying, stealing, adultery (Matthew 5:28 looking at someone with lust is adultery), fornication which is sex before marriage, revenge, murder, jealousy, pride=self-pity, hypocrisy, using God’s name in vain as a curse word, they are all idols (breaks 2nd Commandment) because most people can’t live without them and they love them more than God and more. Just read the 10 commandments for a list.

1 John 2:15 King James Version (KJV)


15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 New King James Version

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.


Now I will be preaching about how to receive the Holy Spirit and be 100% going to Heaven.

First, it’s only by the grace of God that he gives you faith in Jesus Christ in order to give up your sins. It’s only by the grace of God that he leads you to pray to him to destroy all your evil desires of watching TV or any sinful desires. When you pray to God to destroy all your evil desires of watching TV or sinful desires (Romans 6:6-7 and Galatians 5:24), Satan will intervene and extremely tempt you in watching the TV. But if it’s God’s will and if you are one of God’s elects, you will overcome it and God will destroy all your evil desires of watching TV. After God has destroyed all your evil desires of watching TV and if you are one of God’s elects, you receive the joy of the Holy Spirit for about 40 minutes. After the joy wears off, all existence of boredom no longer exists and you no longer burn out (psychology) anymore. That is when you have received the Holy Spirit.

Then it’s by the grace of God that he forgives you of your sins, as you confess and repent of your sins throughout your life which is called sanctification. But you can watch Christian stuff that don’t have sins (Like sermons) because that helps you grow more mature as a Christian spiritually and for more information about this sermon, go to spreadthegospel59.wordpress.com then go to
The short version of “To be free from sin (sin deceives and hurts everyone) and how do we receive the Holy Spirit?”

Why does God hate sin? | GotQuestions.org
What does it mean that “you were bought with a price” (1 Corinthians 6:20; 7:23)? | GotQuestions.org
Sin Will Never Make You Happy
(What does the Bible say about hypocrisy? | GotQuestions.org)
Gives thanks to God, that you are free from sin (sin deceives=never satisfied no matter how many times you do it,
gives pain, makes you guilty, go from bad to worse)
if you are one of God’s elect, to fight off self-pity is to give thanks to God for everything. What does the Bible say about self-pity? | GotQuestions.org
Is eternal security a “license” to sin? | GotQuestions.org

The reason why am hated for no reason since I were physically born and never fit in is because am one of God’s elects. (John 15:18-19)


Just so you know Jesus had to carry all of God’s elects sins and endure the punishment for God’s elects sins which is Hellfire spiritually, which is extreme love and mercy.
Go to the bottom website, for better explanation.
https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/jesus-eternal-punishment-hours/

please do not promote your own website on CC BSF.

Thank you.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Question:
Which verse(s) say, or suggest living, raptured, saints will retain a full flesh& blood body capable of marriage and reproduction?

Ahwatukee (whose post you quoted) wasn't referring to "raptured" saints ("the Church which is His body"), he was referring to those saints who will have come to faith FOLLOWING "our Rapture," who will exist in / during the 7 year tribulation and [those of them who] will be "still-living" upon Christ's "RETURN" to the earth Rev19, like the ones in the following text (among many other passages speaking of this same point in the chronology):

--Luke 12:36-37,38,40,42-44,45-48 (and its parallel passage in Matt24:42-51): "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"... THEN the meal (G347)--the saints in this text will have never lifted off the earth; they will ENTER the MK age (aka "the meal [G347]" / aka "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER"), UPON HIS "RETURN" there (to the earth, where they will still be located), ENTERING the MK in their mortal bodies capable of reproducing / bearing children--but also whom the Lord Himself said "SHALL NEVER DIE" (John 11:26[24,25])

--same as what Daniel 12:12 speaks of: "BLESSED is he that WAITETH, and COMETH TO the 1335 days" [i.e. "still-living" saints (having come to faith IN / DURING / WITHIN the TRIB yrs, FOLLOWING "our Rapture") the ones of them who will still be existing on the earth at the END of the trib, surrounding the time of Christ's "RETURN" to the earth] (i.e. the Subject in about 8 total "BLESSED" passages that speak of this same time-slot and circumstances: Rev16:14-16, Matt24:44-46 [as mentioned above], Matt25:31-34, Rev19:9 [distinct from v.7], and few other "BLESSED" passages...)




IOW, Ahwatukee (in the portion you quoted of his, in that post) was not speaking of the "RAPTURED" saints, there (who will have already been "raptured" well-prior to the point-in-time he was referencing)