Jesus didn't come to separate the old and new covenants.

[john832]

thats because the message of grace was taught in the OT. It was not new, Man has always been made right with God by faith.

Exactly. This is what we read about in Hebrews 11. These were all made righteous by grace through faith.

 

[john832]

So Paul was the Spirit of truth?

My friend, there are those who have not yet understood this scripture...

1Co 3:4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
1Co 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
1Co 3:6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
1Co 3:7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

 

[john832]

Nothing is new under the sun and this is clear from scripture. Yeshua was in the perfect place to reveal all so why didn't He do it and leave it to Paul to create a hornets nest?

As you and I both know, Christ DID reveal all. Paul's writings are correct and proper but must be understood in the light of Christ's teachings. There are those that seem to think the reverse is true.

 

[just-me]

Imagine how shocked some professing Christians will be when they finally see Jesus face to face and all that they rejected, even using His Word as an excuse for that rejection through the years, and realizing in the end what they rejected has been His truth all along.

 

[john832]

21Unto me men gave ear, and waited, and kept silence at my counsel.
my words they spake not again; and my speech dropped upon them.

23And they waited for me as for the rain;
and they opened their mouth wide as for the latter rain.


them few had it, the true smalllll church had it ,tears preserved in bowl.

but rain count been very low in last 1000 years, till now, and growing,

both spirts in full sight floating all around us

mysterys can be pasted to your kids, but has to be given by our father



hope everyone drinking all they can now

Exactly!

Luk 12:32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

Notice, Jesus did not say "Fear not, mega-church;"

 

[john832]

Imagine how shocked some professing Christians will be when they finally see Jesus face to face and all that they rejected, even using His Word as an excuse for that rejection through the years, and then what has been rejected in the end has been His truth all along.

Yep, reminds me of this...

Mat 7:22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
Mat 7:23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Very little people will find the narrow way and we should be careful of preachers that are wolves in sheep clothing

 

[peacefulbeliever]

the mystery was that Jesus first had to come as suffering servant, and not king messiah, The Israel would be set aside for a time period. That there would be two comings of Christ That was the mystery.

Grace has always been the means to eternal life though, from adam till today.

The mystery is Christ in you, the hope of glory. [Col. 1:26,27] The mystery is salvation, righteousness, justification through birth, being born again of incorruptible seed, permanence of salvation. A believer is now sealed with the gift of holy spirit, a new creation, no longer Jew nor Gentile but members in particular of the body of Christ. OT righteousness came by the works of the law. [Deut. 6:25] "What good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life? - keep the commandments, (still under the law administration) [Matt. 19:16-18] - when the Philipian jailer asks the same question in Acts 16:29-31 - Sirs, what must I do to be saved? (inherit eternal life) - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved.

I don't believe I said anything concerning grace . . .

And Messiah as the suffering servant and Messiah as King is prophesied in the OT so it wouldn't have been hid.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Imagine how shocked some professing Christians will be when they finally see Jesus face to face and all that they rejected, even using His Word as an excuse for that rejection through the years, and realizing in the end what they rejected has been His truth all along.

Joh 4:25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

The woman knew her Bible but yet she missed the Messiah. We can be pure in our believes, but if they are wrong we will also miss the Messiah when He return for his bride.

 

[just-me]

If something was kept hid from ages and generations . . . kept secret since before the world began - then revealed to Paul and in turn given to the "church" - would that not be NEW revelation?

It was revealed to the Jews first through Jesus Christ. The original 11 disciples (Judas being dead by then) knew the truth before Paul. Paul didn't teach them for Paul didn't believe Jesus as the Christ at that time. Jesus Christ revealed the mystery to them before Paul. "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." (John 14:26)

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Imagine how shocked some professing Christians will be when they finally see Jesus face to face and all that they rejected, even using His Word as an excuse for that rejection through the years, and realizing in the end what they rejected has been His truth all along.

I don't know if this is in reference to what I have posted BUT just to let you know - I have not rejected anything and I am not using his Word as any excuse to reject anything. AND if I have then you could point it out more specifically.

I will be glad to see you there also when we meet Jesus face to face.

 

[john832]

I don't know if this is in reference to what I have posted BUT just to let you know - I have not rejected anything and I am not using his Word as any excuse to reject anything. AND if I have then you could point it out more specifically.

I will be glad to see you there also when we meet Jesus face to face.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that you have rejected anything.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

I don't know if this is in reference to what I have posted BUT just to let you know - I have not rejected anything and I am not using his Word as any excuse to reject anything. AND if I have then you could point it out more specifically.

I will be glad to see you there also when we meet Jesus face to face.

We should not judge but discuss the word of God with each other. Yeshua is the King and He will decide who are worthy. We can only run the race to the best of our abilities...

 

[peacefulbeliever]

It was revealed to the Jews first through Jesus Christ. The original 11 disciples (Judas being dead by then) knew the truth before Paul. Paul didn't teach them for Paul didn't believe Jesus as the Christ at that time. Jesus Christ revealed the mystery to them before Paul. "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." (John 14:26)

AGAIN: If something was kept hid from ages and generations . . . kept secret since before the world began - then revealed to Paul and in turn given to the "church" - would that not be NEW revelation?

"Jesus Christ revealed the mystery to them before Paul." That is not what the scriptures say - What in the world does this mean: Now to him [God] that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, and this mystery was not known in other ages but made known to Paul - Gentiles fellowheirs by birth - the new birth, the new creation, members in particular of the household of God.

If I kept a secret - it wouldn't be known until I revealed it. If God kept a secret and hid it - I guarantee you no one knew until he made the decision for it to be revealed - Why would God have those scriptures saying it was hid from ages and generations if those scriptures were not also truth?

 

[just-me]

I don't know if this is in reference to what I have posted BUT just to let you know - I have not rejected anything and I am not using his Word as any excuse to reject anything. AND if I have then you could point it out more specifically.

I will be glad to see you there also when we meet Jesus face to face.

I was not including any person in my statement in particular. What I am endorsing is rather than be cemented in religious beliefs that prohibit edification we should all be willing to learn more truth. It is true that there is more than One Spirit working in the church for the last 2000 years plus. We should be humble enough to identify, and desire to separate the truth from the subtle lies issued on a daily basis.

Remember these scriptures that caused a fight?

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. (Romans 1:16)
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: (Romans 2:9-10)

 

[just-me]

AGAIN: If something was kept hid from ages and generations . . . kept secret since before the world began - then revealed to Paul and in turn given to the "church" - would that not be NEW revelation?

"Jesus Christ revealed the mystery to them before Paul." That is not what the scriptures say - What in the world does this mean: Now to him [God] that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, and this mystery was not known in other ages but made known to Paul - Gentiles fellowheirs by birth - the new birth, the new creation, members in particular of the household of God.

If I kept a secret - it wouldn't be known until I revealed it. If God kept a secret and hid it - I guarantee you no one knew until he made the decision for it to be revealed - Why would God have those scriptures saying it was hid from ages and generations if those scriptures were not also truth?

By Paul's own exhortations to the Romans tells them that the truth came to the Jews first. Post 115 Paul was picked specifically (By Christ) to deliver the message to the Gentiles.

 

[MarcR]

God, our Father in heaven, His name being holy is immutable....................

"He has never changed and can never change in the smallest measure. To change, He would need to go from better to worse or from worse to better. He cannot do either, for being perfect, He cannot become more perfect, and if He were to become less perfect He would be less than God."

Quote from "The Pursuit of God" written by A. W. Tozer

And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God. (Luke 4:4)

I think that what just-me is trying to say is:

While we certainly do not want to put ourselves back under law, there are still teaching elements within the law which can contribute to our Spiritual understanding. If I understand him correctly; I completely agree with him.

 

[just-me]

I think that what just-me is trying to say is:

While we certainly do not want to put ourselves back under law, there are still teaching elements within the law which can contribute to our Spiritual understanding. If I understand him correctly; I completely agree with him.

Exactly! Just for example, if we take to heart the attitude of applying Exodus chapters 20 through 23 to todays life style (because it's not the same as then) we would be so much better equipped to propagate the love that Jesus said was the totality of the law of love. Just for starters because that's only a small glimpse of a bigger picture. I also beleieve that these 4 chapters entail the tables of stone, not just 17 verses in chapter 20

 

[peacefulbeliever]

I think that what just-me is trying to say is:

While we certainly do not want to put ourselves back under law, there are still teaching elements within the law which can contribute to our Spiritual understanding. If I understand him correctly; I completely agree with him.

I don't believe that I have said that we cannot garner understanding nor learn anything from any other part of scripture.

For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scripture might have hope. [Romans 15:4 KJV]

For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through the endurance taught in the scriptures and the encouragement they provide we might have hope. [Romans 15:4 NIV]

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

Hebrews 8:13 ESV
13In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Mark 2:22 KJV 2000
And no man puts new wine into old wineskins: else the new wine does burst the wineskins, and the wine is spilled, and the wineskins will be ruined: but new wine must be put into new wineskins.


Romans 10:3,4 KJV
3For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Galatians 5:18 KJV
18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.