Jesus or Paul?
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It is a not easily understood issue, and probably addressing the problems at Corinth:
Here is what one of the early protestant commentaries from Adam Clarke has to say:
Verse 34
Let your women keep silence in the churches - This was a Jewish ordinance; women were not permitted to teach in the assemblies, or even to ask questions. The rabbins taught that "a woman should know nothing but the use of her distaff." And the sayings of Rabbi Eliezer, as delivered, Bammidbar Rabba, sec. 9, fol. 204, are both worthy of remark and of execration; they are these: לנשים ימסרו ואל תורה דברי ישרפו yisrephu dibrey torah veal yimsaru lenashim, "Let the words of the law be burned, rather than that they should be delivered to women." This was their condition till the time of the Gospel, when, according to the prediction of Joel, the Spirit of God was to be poured out on the women as well as the men, that they might prophesy, i.e. teach. And that they did prophesy or teach is evident from what the apostle says, 1 Corinthians 11:5, where he lays down rules to regulate this part of their conduct while ministering in the church.
But does not what the apostle says here contradict that statement, and show that the words in chap. 11 should be understood in another sense? For, here it is expressly said that they should keep silence in the church; for it was not permitted to a woman to speak. Both places seem perfectly consistent. It is evident from the context that the apostle refers here to asking questions, and what we call dictating in the assemblies. It was permitted to any man to ask questions, to object, altercate, attempt to refute, etc., in the synagogue; but this liberty was not allowed to any woman. St. Paul confirms this in reference also to the Christian Church; he orders them to keep silence; and, if they wished to learn any thing, let them inquire of their husbands at home; because it was perfectly indecorous for women to be contending with men in public assemblies, on points of doctrine, cases of conscience, etc. But this by no means intimated that when a woman received any particular influence from God to enable her to teach, that she was not to obey that influence; on the contrary, she was to obey it, and the apostle lays down directions in chap. 11 for regulating her personal appearance when thus employed. All that the apostle opposes here is their questioning, finding fault, disputing, etc., in the Christian Church, as the Jewish men were permitted to do in their synagogues; together with the attempts to usurp any authority over the man, by setting up their judgment in opposition to them; for the apostle has in view, especially, acts of disobedience, arrogance, etc., of which no woman would be guilty who was under the influence of the Spirit of God.
But - to be under obedience, as also saith the law - This is a reference to Genesis 3:16; : Thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. From this it is evident that it was the disorderly and disobedient that the apostle had in view; and not any of those on whom God had poured out his Spirit.
Here is what one of the early protestant commentaries from Adam Clarke has to say:
Verse 34
Let your women keep silence in the churches - This was a Jewish ordinance; women were not permitted to teach in the assemblies, or even to ask questions. The rabbins taught that "a woman should know nothing but the use of her distaff." And the sayings of Rabbi Eliezer, as delivered, Bammidbar Rabba, sec. 9, fol. 204, are both worthy of remark and of execration; they are these: לנשים ימסרו ואל תורה דברי ישרפו yisrephu dibrey torah veal yimsaru lenashim, "Let the words of the law be burned, rather than that they should be delivered to women." This was their condition till the time of the Gospel, when, according to the prediction of Joel, the Spirit of God was to be poured out on the women as well as the men, that they might prophesy, i.e. teach. And that they did prophesy or teach is evident from what the apostle says, 1 Corinthians 11:5, where he lays down rules to regulate this part of their conduct while ministering in the church.
But does not what the apostle says here contradict that statement, and show that the words in chap. 11 should be understood in another sense? For, here it is expressly said that they should keep silence in the church; for it was not permitted to a woman to speak. Both places seem perfectly consistent. It is evident from the context that the apostle refers here to asking questions, and what we call dictating in the assemblies. It was permitted to any man to ask questions, to object, altercate, attempt to refute, etc., in the synagogue; but this liberty was not allowed to any woman. St. Paul confirms this in reference also to the Christian Church; he orders them to keep silence; and, if they wished to learn any thing, let them inquire of their husbands at home; because it was perfectly indecorous for women to be contending with men in public assemblies, on points of doctrine, cases of conscience, etc. But this by no means intimated that when a woman received any particular influence from God to enable her to teach, that she was not to obey that influence; on the contrary, she was to obey it, and the apostle lays down directions in chap. 11 for regulating her personal appearance when thus employed. All that the apostle opposes here is their questioning, finding fault, disputing, etc., in the Christian Church, as the Jewish men were permitted to do in their synagogues; together with the attempts to usurp any authority over the man, by setting up their judgment in opposition to them; for the apostle has in view, especially, acts of disobedience, arrogance, etc., of which no woman would be guilty who was under the influence of the Spirit of God.
But - to be under obedience, as also saith the law - This is a reference to Genesis 3:16; : Thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. From this it is evident that it was the disorderly and disobedient that the apostle had in view; and not any of those on whom God had poured out his Spirit.
It's not just women that have been harmed by Paul's words being treated as an outward law or by the letter. Men can also be harmed. Some are taught that if they divorced and remarried they can never hold some positions in the gathering. Their former sin has been removed as far from them as the east from the West and their sins have been washed as white as snow. God will not hold that sin against them but men still do? Does that appear correct or does it appear that the letter is being used and used to harm? And why would Paul, who almost rants against the letter of the law, then put women back under it by saying: just as the law says? We have misunderstood something somewhere if the sin of women with angels who did not keep their place is now being put on a woman whose sins have been removed as far as east from West. And ditto for the men who are being brought back under the law and their former sins being held against them in the gathering.
Take it up with the Lord...he is the one who set the qualifications for a pastor/deacon in the scriptures.....Paul's writings were inspired, end of story...They have a place and have been misunderstood, misapplied and or flat rejected out of ignorance....
Paul is not saying that a woman cannot speak in church......and the two offices found pastor and deacon have particular qualifications set by God....even in the OT God had set qualifications that had to be met for a priest, Nazarite etc...
End of story regardless of who dislikes and or dismisses these truths......
Paul is not saying that a woman cannot speak in church......and the two offices found pastor and deacon have particular qualifications set by God....even in the OT God had set qualifications that had to be met for a priest, Nazarite etc...
End of story regardless of who dislikes and or dismisses these truths......
It's not just women that have been harmed by Paul's words being treated as an outward law or by the letter. Men can also be harmed.
Harmed by getting their feeling hurt?
Yes according to the spiritual meaning (the unseen glory of God) if a woman does not obey the commandment it affects both, and no glory becomes the output, or vice versa. No glorying in the flesh, the flesh profits for nothing.
The sin was not against messengers(fallen angels) that have no form, no DNA, as those who cannot multiply.
It was the sin of being unevenly yoked with unbelievers, especially at that time period when God was still protecting the spiritual seed of Christ from being mingled with unbelievers up until the time of reformation when keeping a genealogy was needed. ..
Harmed by getting their feeling hurt?
Yes according to the spiritual meaning (the unseen glory of God) if a woman does not obey the commandment it affects both, and no glory becomes the output, or vice versa. No glorying in the flesh, the flesh profits for nothing.
The sin was not against messengers(fallen angels) that have no form, no DNA, as those who cannot multiply.
It was the sin of being unevenly yoked with unbelievers, especially at that time period when God was still protecting the spiritual seed of Christ from being mingled with unbelievers up until the time of reformation when keeping a genealogy was needed. ..
This view reeks of ignorance and DECEPTION....GOD set the qualifications of priests, Nazarites, prophets, deacons and pastors.....and PAUL did NOT tell women NOT speak in church...HOW ABOUT POST THE REST of the verse in CONTEXT instead of ripping it in half to deceptively make a false point that is contrary to the truth!