Jesus turned water into unfermented wine and not fermented wine.

[StandingFirmInChrist]

There is no biblical or historical evidence to the contrary.

There is, you just refuse to accept them.

Here are the facts- if one disputes them, they are ignorant or being willfully ignorant for heaven knows what reason:

You have consistently proven that you are quite adept at ignoring the facts, God knows the reason

In the ancient world, when you squeezed grapes, you produced a juice

Well, duh!!! Were you aware that God's Word calls that juice "wine" while it is still in the culuster? He also calls it the pure blood of the grape. Fermentation is not an immediate process. One can squeeze a few clusters of grapes into a cup and drink the product, which the Bible refers to as wine... in an unfermented state.

The juice was exposed to yeast on the skins, which ferments into wine

Unless one does something to kill the yeast. Historical records reveal methods that were used to preserve wines in an unfermented state for long periods of time.

Even if you sterilized the skins, there is still yeast present in the air, which ferments into wine

According to the Word of God, new wine was put into new bottles and both were preserved. If new wine were to ferment, it would not be preserved, now would it? hmmmmm

Yeast will reproduce and consume sugar in the juice until it is completely fermented into alcohol

Again, not if that fermentation process is arrested. I have experimented in the past with grapes, using a method recorded by Cato, who lived more than 140 years before Christ was born. The method of boiling wines to keep them from fermenting, bottling them, and storing them in a dark cool place does indeed arrest and prevent the fermentation process.

Two years later, the wine was still unfermented. I drank a full 10 oz. cup of it in less than 10 seconds. That amount, that fast, would have put me in a drunken stupor had it contained alcohol. There was no effect at all however, except an aftertaste and a full belly.

 

[JackH]

Given the preponderance of Historical and Biblical evidence, I disagree with your conclusion.

So let's see this preponderance of evidence.

Please begin with the biblical evidence from the Old Testament.

 

[Kerry]

Hmmmm Noah planted a vineyard and made wine. This of course took a long long time. He didn't step of the boat and get drunk. This was well planned in advance. But, look what happened, he got drunk and lay in the tent with his wife and his son came and saw him passed out with his naked wife as she probably drunk as well. Drinking that fermented wine. Y'all talk all the smack you won't too, but that one glass turns into two and then the whole bottles gone and running around the living room in your underwear. Now tell the truth.

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

The Biblical evedence is the context of Scripture.

For instance, these two wines cannot possibly be the same wine...

Deuteronomy 29:6 Ye have not eaten bread, neither have ye drunk wine or strong drink: that ye might know that I am the LORD your God.

Notice in the wilderness wanderings, God said the Israelites had not drank wine or strong drink

Deuteronomy 32:14 Butter of kine, and milk of sheep, with fat of lambs, and rams of the breed of Bashan, and goats, with the fat of kidneys of wheat; and thou didst drink the pure blood of the grape.
Isaiah 65:8 Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all.

Notice that the new wine is in the cluster.

In Genesis, we read

Genesis 40:11 And Pharaoh's cup was in my hand: and I took the grapes, and pressed them into Pharaoh's cup, and I gave the cup into Pharaoh's hand.


Notice that the juice from the grapes was squeezed directly into the cup and then given to the Pharaoh. No fermentation process at all.

Now, one might argue that it was just a dream. Yet the interpretation of the dream was not a dream at all. And the interpretation said that the chief butler would be restored to his position and would once again put the Pharaoh's cup into his hand.

As has been pointed out also, the wine at the wedding feast could not have been alcoholic. Had it been, Jesus would have been giving liberty to drink alcohol to people who had already "well drunk" The wine at the feast was obviously so satisfying that the guests drank until the supply was gone. Jesus made more from water. The Bible tells us that in performing this miracle, He manifested His Glory.

If all wine was fermented in the first Century, how would giving alcohol to people who had drank all the wine that the bridegroom had provided bring Jesus glory? He would instead have contributed to drunkenness.

Sorry, but my Lord came to seek and save that which was lost, not to put them on the road to destruction.

 

[Kerry]

As I have stated, The master of the party had been drinking wine all day. They ran out of so called wine. Look at the gallons of wine that Jesus provided. The master of the party said this is the best wine and you have saved it for last. Erry body knows that you bring out the best wine and as their senses are dwindled you bring out the cheap wine. Clearly these people were not drinking alcohol.

 

[Kerry]

People want to justify there actions and will twist scripture to prove it. Just as the Homo's and baby killers do.

 

[lisa79]

[QUOTEJason0047;1651110ile a Christian has a liberrist to drink moderately and soberly in the privacy of their own home, you go against the Bible's clear warnings about alcohol and how it was used in Biblical times. For you paint alcohol into a favorable light as if it was good. Is there a personal reason why you are defending alcohol? But what about all the verses that warn against the dangers of alcohol? Do you just write them off and ignore them? What about all the destruction or the fruits of alcohol drinking today? Do you just write that off, too? Jesus said a good tree cannot bring forth bad fruit (And vise versa). How is alcohol bringing forth good fruit today? Do you think alcohol drinking does more harm or good today? I see more people hurt by alcohol than I do in people being blessed by it. I am sorry, it is just a reality you are simply ignoring.

As for morality and telling others what is wrong and right. God is not immoral. If you see a person is raped down the street, you know it is not wrong to speak out against such an evil. For surely speaking against serial killers is not wrong. And speaking against drunkards or the dangers of alcoholism is not wrong. Right? For are you for alcoholics slipping back into alcoholism? Because that is what you are promoting when you say that Jesus created a drug that would influence people into being anti-sober (Which is a direct violation of Scripture). See, your position says to the alcoholic that it is okay to drink (Even if it might be bad for them). So how exactly is your version of the wine good if the Bible warns against it and life teaches us that it mostly destroys lives? Please tell me how that is loving and good? Also, is not speaking out against evil lead people to repent? Can you be forgiven and not repent? See that is what preaching against evil and pointing people to Jesus Christ is all about. For if there is no message or preach against sin and repentance in accepting Jesus, then there is no forgiveness. For if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9) (1 John 2:1). For who was more justified in the parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee? The Tax Collector who cried out to have mercy for his transgressions or the Pharisee who thought he was better than others (such as the Tax Collector) (See Luke 18:9-14).[/QUOTE]

I guess all beautiful women should be kept from public view, for they may cause a man to be drunken with lust?

I'll testify...you want to understand? Or be right? When I was 16 my father became a raging alcoholic. My brother was 22 and sentenced to 25 yrs in prison based on a technicality. After 3 yrs my father got sober and passed on with 13yrs sobiety got drunk and wrecked his car. I spent a long time in alonon trying to understand.

In 2004 I was having some health issues. I went in for a simple exploratory procedure. The doctor had a heart attack and knicked my pancreas. I ended up with post operative pancrititus. There is no pain like that. The doctors had to place me in a chemicaly induced coma for 2 months on a dilaudin drip so I could heal because everytime I woke up all I could do was scream.

I left the hospital physically dependent on drugs AND somehow pregnant. Call it raped it doesnt matter. When i look at my son i have no bitterness in me. My husband (we are divorced now) had sex with me while I was comatose. I suffered but I would not hurt my child by taking drugs.

A few years later I was diagnosed with interstitial cystitus (bleeding ulcers in the bladder) the only treatment was removal or pain medicine. They had me on 4 percocet 10m, 2 methadone 20mg and 4 zanax 1mg a day! Then one day in the line with my mother to visit my brother in prison a couple layed hands on me and I was cured instantly! But my body did not understand. It needed those pills because the pain was everywhere. It hurt for the wind to blow against my skin. I went to a rehab program.

My ex husband was verbaly and emotionaly abusive. I wanted out because death sounded good to me. He would only pay me child support if I would have sex with him. I ended up having to let them go with him and I had a nervous breakdown. The next week we went to court (I have no recollection of this) The fact that I am an addict and was in the mental institute and could not defend myself because they had me on drugs that walgreens filled incorrectly (lethal dose for a month, yet I am here) he got custody.

There is so much more....but I wont bore you.

Last week my (been married since April) husband called me drunk and told me that he felt pressured (no premarital sex) into marriage and wanted me to leave. I locked myself in my bathroom and drank a bottle of rum because my heart had been torn into pieces and I dont feel bad about it. I might drink a couple of glasses a month. I like to drink it when I cook italian food.

If anyone should think alcohol and drugs are evil it is me! Its not evil...its just part of my story...and it is part of what made me who I am today and I am praising God through the storm and telling Him to put me into the fire until what comes out is pure.

I did not chose addiction. It chose me.
I have understanding.....you want understanding? Ask and pray...I hope you will receive it as grace instead of by humbling.

 

[Ukorin]

People want to justify there actions and will twist scripture to prove it. Just as the Homo's and baby killers do.

Like justifying prohibition...

If you have to lie to people to make them not sin, then is it really worth it?

If you have to lie to a person to get them to stop being an alcoholic, then neither one of you has Faith in Christ to break chains.

I see so many of these white lies pop up in Christian circles, trying to help people not sin by telling them false repercussions and judgements.
People tell suicidal people that suicide is unforgivable, thinking that it will make them less likely to commit suicide.
Sorry, but salvation is once and for all, and the sin is forgiven if they are I Christ. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that suicide is an unforgivable sin, yet people say this all the time. White lie... still a lie.
If I die in a car accident, and my last words were taking God's name in vain, out of shock of the collision, am I doomed to destruction because I had no chance to repent of taking His Name in vain? A sin done out of desperation, irreversible, and momentary... forgiven in Christ.

People claim that drinking alcohol I any amount is a sin, just so that those who struggle in that area will not return to it.
The Bible does not say this, yet in an attempt to keep the weak from straying, men have added to the Law. Increasing the Law increases sin. You weigh down men's consciences instead of freeing them.

It is not okay to add to the Law, and add to God's Word, even if you think that you are helping God out by doing so.
Let God's Word stand by itself, and stand upon it,
rather than being next to it, trying to prop it up by your own words.

 

[lisa79]

While a Christian has a liberty in Christ to drink moderately and soberly in the privacy of their own home, you go against the Bible's clear warnings about alcohol and how it was used in Biblical times. For you paint alcohol into a favorable light as if it was good. Is there a personal reason why you are defending alcohol? But what about all the verses that warn against the dangers of alcohol? Do you just write them off and ignore them? What about all the destruction or the fruits of alcohol drinking today? Do you just write that off, too? Jesus said a good tree cannot bring forth bad fruit (And vise versa). How is alcohol bringing forth good fruit today? Do you think alcohol drinking does more harm or good today? I see more people hurt by alcohol than I do in people being blessed by it. I am sorry, it is just a reality you are simply ignoring.

As for morality and telling others what is wrong and right. God is not immoral. If you see a person is raped down the street, you know it is not wrong to speak out against such an evil. For surely speaking against serial killers is not wrong. And speaking against drunkards or the dangers of alcoholism is not wrong. Right? For are you for alcoholics slipping back into alcoholism? Because that is what you are promoting when you say that Jesus created a drug that would influence people into being anti-sober (Which is a direct violation of Scripture). See, your position says to the alcoholic that it is okay to drink (Even if it might be bad for them). So how exactly is your version of the wine good if the Bible warns against it and life teaches us that it mostly destroys lives? Please tell me how that is loving and good? Also, is not speaking out against evil lead people to repent? Can you be forgiven and not repent? See that is what preaching against evil and pointing people to Jesus Christ is all about. For if there is no message or preach against sin and repentance in accepting Jesus, then there is no forgiveness. For if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9) (1 John 2:1). For who was more justified in the parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee? The Tax Collector who cried out to have mercy for his transgressions or the Pharisee who thought he was better than others (such as the Tax Collector) (See Luke 18:9-14).

I guess all beautiful women should be kept from public view, for they may cause a man to be drunken with lust? I'll testify...you want to understand? Or be right? When I was 16 my father became a raging alcoholic. My brother was 22 and sentenced to 25 yrs in prison based on a technicality. After 3 yrs my father got sober and passed on with 13yrs sobiety got drunk and wrecked his car. I spent a long time in alonon trying to understand. In 2004 I was having some health issues. I went in for a simple exploratory procedure. The doctor had a heart attack and knicked my pancreas. I ended up with post operative pancrititus. There is no pain like that. The doctors had to place me in a chemicaly induced coma for 2 months on a dilaudin drip so I could heal because everytime I woke up all I could do was scream. I left the hospital physically dependent on drugs AND somehow pregnant. Call it raped it doesnt matter. When i look at my son i have no bitterness in me. My husband (we are divorced now) had sex with me while I was comatose. I suffered but I would not hurt my child by taking drugs.A few years later I was diagnosed with interstitial cystitus (bleeding ulcers in the bladder) the only treatment was removal or pain medicine. They had me on 4 percocet 10m, 2 methadone 20mg and 4 zanax 1mg a day! Then one day in the line with my mother to visit my brother in prison a couple layed hands on me and I was cured instantly! But my body did not understand. It needed those pills because the pain was everywhere. It hurt for the wind to blow against my skin. I went to a rehab program. My ex husband was verbaly and emotionaly abusive. I wanted out because death sounded good to me. He would only pay me child support if I would have sex with him. I ended up having to let them go with him and I had a nervous breakdown. The next week we went to court (I have no recollection of this) The fact that I am an addict and was in the mental institute and could not defend myself because they had me on drugs that walgreens filled incorrectly (lethal dose for a month, yet I am here) he got custody. There is so much more....but I wont bore you.Last week my (been married since April) husband called me drunk and told me that he felt pressured (no premarital sex) into marriage and wanted me to leave. I locked myself in my bathroom and drank a bottle of rum because my heart had been torn into pieces and I dont feel bad about it. I might drink a couple of glasses a month. I like to drink it when I cook italian food. If anyone should think alcohol and drugs are evil it is me! Its not evil...its just part of my story...and it is part of what made me who I am today and I am praising God through the storm and telling Him to put me into the fire until what comes out is pure. I did not chose addiction. It chose me. I have understanding.....you want understanding? Ask and pray...I hope you will receive it as grace instead of by humbling.

 

[Jason0047]

You can not have it both ways.

God put the tree of knowledge in the garden ( a tree forbidden to eat from ) and yet they still ate from it.

Jesus turned the water in to wine ( oy'-nos / fermented ), the people still drank it for the purpose to get drunk.

Jesus turning the water into wine was not a test to see if they would drink or not (like the two trees in the Garden of Eden was a test). if the beverage at the wedding was alcoholic, then they were already sinning because John 2 says they were "well drunk" with that beverage (John 2:10). They were also unaware of Jesus telling them that it was a sin to drink at the wedding with him giving them a test (with a miracle) so as to continue in that sin, too. For Adam was told by God specifically to not eat of the tree. Jesus miracle was not a test. It was to show forth His glory (John 2:11).

You can drink wine in a sensible/responsible and non-intoxicating way.

Yes, we can drink in a way that is done in a non intoxicating way and in a way so as to not to make our brother to stumble. We have a liberty in Christ. But such a liberty did not exist before the cross; And wine back then that made the hearts of men glad (Psalm 104:14), was not high in alcoholic content. Yes, there were wines that inflamed the senses back then. But the Bible warns against the use of those types of wines, though.

To be of sober mind does not just apply to being drunk. It also applies to not taking every word given to you as truth, you must question, test, and see if it follows God's word.

God's word is not against drinking alcohol, it is against drinking it in a unreasonable intoxicating way in which you use it to get drunk off of. Hince a drunkard.

It is also against drinking it in front of another believer, if that believer has troubles with it because it could cause him to stumble.

If you can drink alcohol in the comforts of your own home by having just a drink or two or even a couple times a year, and that you can put it down right now if asked and never take a sip again. Then you are not living in sin as a drunkard.

A drunkard is one who lets the alcohol control him, he drinks a lot of it every day and can not put it down and stop unless they get help.

Again, I am not against a believer drinking in moderation and soberly in the privacy of their own home. But that is a huge difference between the guests having "well drunk" of an intoxicating substance and Jesus (Without their knowledge) giving them more alcoholic wine so as to make them even more intoxicated beyond being "well drunk." Jesus would be contributing to the sin of drunkenness if this was the case.

 

[waterlily]

I guess all beautiful women should be kept from public view, for they may cause a man to be drunken with lust? I'll testify...you want to understand? Or be right? When I was 16 my father became a raging alcoholic. My brother was 22 and sentenced to 25 yrs in prison based on a technicality. After 3 yrs my father got sober and passed on with 13yrs sobiety got drunk and wrecked his car. I spent a long time in alonon trying to understand. In 2004 I was having some health issues. I went in for a simple exploratory procedure. The doctor had a heart attack and knicked my pancreas. I ended up with post operative pancrititus. There is no pain like that. The doctors had to place me in a chemicaly induced coma for 2 months on a dilaudin drip so I could heal because everytime I woke up all I could do was scream. I left the hospital physically dependent on drugs AND somehow pregnant. Call it raped it doesnt matter. When i look at my son i have no bitterness in me. My husband (we are divorced now) had sex with me while I was comatose. I suffered but I would not hurt my child by taking drugs.A few years later I was diagnosed with interstitial cystitus (bleeding ulcers in the bladder) the only treatment was removal or pain medicine. They had me on 4 percocet 10m, 2 methadone 20mg and 4 zanax 1mg a day! Then one day in the line with my mother to visit my brother in prison a couple layed hands on me and I was cured instantly! But my body did not understand. It needed those pills because the pain was everywhere. It hurt for the wind to blow against my skin. I went to a rehab program. My ex husband was verbaly and emotionaly abusive. I wanted out because death sounded good to me. He would only pay me child support if I would have sex with him. I ended up having to let them go with him and I had a nervous breakdown. The next week we went to court (I have no recollection of this) The fact that I am an addict and was in the mental institute and could not defend myself because they had me on drugs that walgreens filled incorrectly (lethal dose for a month, yet I am here) he got custody. There is so much more....but I wont bore you.Last week my (been married since April) husband called me drunk and told me that he felt pressured (no premarital sex) into marriage and wanted me to leave. I locked myself in my bathroom and drank a bottle of rum because my heart had been torn into pieces and I dont feel bad about it. I might drink a couple of glasses a month. I like to drink it when I cook italian food. If anyone should think alcohol and drugs are evil it is me! Its not evil...its just part of my story...and it is part of what made me who I am today and I am praising God through the storm and telling Him to put me into the fire until what comes out is pure. I did not chose addiction. It chose me. I have understanding.....you want understanding? Ask and pray...I hope you will receive it as grace instead of by humbling.

after reading this I truly have no words that could verbalize what is in my heart. I'm so sorry.. I truly am.

Lord for every single minute of this precious child of yours life you have been there. Lord only you are enough to heal these wounds and restore her to the identity that you have given her. Lord let the power of your love and word totally transform all pain and suffering into joy and peace. Give her your LIFE. Lord have your perfect way in Her.. Let her not let you go until you have established your victory in her life. Bless her and release her into the abundant life you came to give. Holy Spirit guide her into your truth with love and joy. God bless you.. In Jesus name..Amen

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

You didn't choose addiction? The Bible tells me otherwise.

1 Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Whatever temptation comes our way, God gives a way of escape. You chose not to escape.

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

You choose to get drunk. Quit blaming it on something that the Bible clearly refutes.

 

[lisa79]

after reading this I truly have no words that could verbalize what is in my heart. I'm so sorry.. I truly am.

Lord for every single minute of this precious child of yours life you have been there. Lord only you are enough to heal these wounds and restore her to the identity that you have given her. Lord let the power of your love and word totally transform all pain and suffering into joy and peace. Give her your LIFE. Lord have your perfect way in Her.. Let her not let you go until you have established your victory in her life. Bless her and release her into the abundant life you came to give. Holy Spirit guide her into your truth with love and joy. God bless you.. In Jesus name..Amen

Thank you for your prayer dear...by His stripes I am healed. I do not seek pity but I do have understanding. I know it is Christ who lives in me. We all have our cross to bear....i have my treasures built up in heaven and the Kingdom of heaven is within...i have patience, peace, humilty, vurtue, wisdom, understanding, knowledge.... I owe it all to what you may think is evil but God who is rich in mercy and while i am a sinner and unworthy of His mercy...He took what should have distroyed me and built this temple and I give Him the glory and I give thanks in all thing. His spirit abides in me. There is no one I could not let go of if God asked me to...I chose Him and leave it all behind. I have a blessed life.

 

[lisa79]

You didn't choose addiction? The Bible tells me otherwise.

1 Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Whatever temptation comes our way, God gives a way of escape. You chose not to escape.

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

You choose to get drunk. Quit blaming it on something that the Bible clearly refutes.

I wont defend myself against that. God bless

 

[Jason0047]

That is funny because they would be the only one that says that. I have researched a lot of other dictionaries from Webster's on and none of the rest have that in their definitions.

Yes, it is a big conspiracy.

You also have obviously missed the post by "Standing Firm In Christ" that shows an actual screen capture of an old dictionary on the word "wine." Please note that you have to understand that it defines the word "liquor" as NOT an alcoholic substance. Here is the link to that.

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...ed-wine-not-fermented-wine-7.html#post1648489

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

Only reason you won't defend yourself is that you can't defend yourself. The Scripture says God has provided a way of escape. That way of escape is submission to Him, not to the bottle.

James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

 

[lisa79]

Only reason you won't defend yourself is that you can't defend yourself. The Scripture says God has provided a way of escape. That way of escape is submission to Him, not to the bottle.

James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

No sir, I could but I honestly anything I have to say about it to you would not be kind...so again...God bless

 

[Last]

So your saying that Jesus broke the law. It is unlawful to ingest anything that is decayed or broken down by bacteria. Because that what decayed means. Alcohol is the sugars in the grape being broken down by bacteria called yeast it yeast poop. I din't think that Jesus would risk breaking the law by ingesting yeast poop.

Your post is full of traditions and ignorance.

1) They had no idea what bacteria or yeast was back then
2) Wine is fermented into alcohol by yeast, not bacteria
3) Yeast is not bacteria.
4) If Jesus drank wine, then it would be wine produced by fermentation
5) Bread is made by fermentation and we know Jesus ate that too

 

[Last]

Jesus did drink wine the fruit of the vine not intoxicating wine. Shall I call on Aristotle to show what wine was in the old days?

All wine was alcoholic. Grape juice was not available until the 19th Century.

Jesus lived in the day before canning and electricity. When you squeezed grapes, you produced a product that was going to be rapidly consumed.

 

[Last]

There is, you just refuse to accept them.

I cannot accept what does not exist.

You have consistently proven that you are quite adept at ignoring the facts, God knows the reason

Where? The whole "Let's pretend Jesus bought Welch's grape juice side" has consisted of no facts or science. It's silly "oh well, you are wrong" type comments like you mentioned above.

Well, duh!!! Were you aware that God's Word calls that juice "wine" while it is still in the culuster? He also calls it the pure blood of the grape. Fermentation is not an immediate process. One can squeeze a few clusters of grapes into a cup and drink the product, which the Bible refers to as wine... in an unfermented state.

If you want to get into the Greek or Hebrew, let's do that.
But that is all a distraction from the very obvious fact that when you made grape juice, you'd make wine. It blows my mind how ignorant people are because of technology that they think ancient people drank grape juice.

Unless one does something to kill the yeast. Historical records reveal methods that were used to preserve wines in an unfermented state for long periods of time.

Absolutely false.
Yeast naturally exist in the air. There is no way to avoid contamination.

According to the Word of God, new wine was put into new bottles and both were preserved. If new wine were to ferment, it would not be preserved, now would it? hmmmmm

You realize you are not making any sense, right?
New wine was put into wine skins. New wine was not put into old skins because old skins were already stretched.

Again, not if that fermentation process is arrested. I have experimented in the past with grapes, using a method recorded by Cato, who lived more than 140 years before Christ was born. The method of boiling wines to keep them from fermenting, bottling them, and storing them in a dark cool place does indeed arrest and prevent the fermentation process.

Boiling grapes does not produce grape juice, it produces a syrup that was used for increasing alcohol content of wines.

Two years later, the wine was still unfermented. I drank a full 10 oz. cup of it in less than 10 seconds. That amount, that fast, would have put me in a drunken stupor had it contained alcohol. There was no effect at all however, except an aftertaste and a full belly.

Modern people with modern knowledge and equipment can produce grape juice. No one is doubting that. I can go to the store and buy grape juice. What the heck does that have to do with anything?