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No, there are plenty of non-Jewish citizens living in physical Israel right now. Check out this article ICN Ministries - Dr. Michael Brown
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I think we are grafted into Christ. "He is the vine, we are the branches." The history of Israel is the history of the Messianic line. When they rejecected the Messiah, the Gentiles were grafted in. In the New Jerusalem we find the names of the twelve apostles and the twelve tribes of Israel. But Jesus is it's light and God it's center.
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We have Christian pastors in Calvary and evangelical churches that were Jewish before becoming completed Jews in Christ out here. One of them is David Hocking who heads a messanic congregation in Orange County, CA.
I have a friend who is a Christian who was raised a Jew and is now a completed Jew. You need to understand that Jesus, all the apostles, and most of the early first century church were all Jews that became completed Jews in Christ. They became what we today call Christians.
And they all warn us not to give up our faith in Christ in our New Covenant relationship with God to return to a now defunct Old Covenant that rested on the Law of Moses.
You are not to abandon your faith in Jesus Christ for salvation to try to earn it under the Law of Moses; however, they are certainly welcome to join you and put their faith in Jesus Christ for their salvation.
I have a friend who is a Christian who was raised a Jew and is now a completed Jew. You need to understand that Jesus, all the apostles, and most of the early first century church were all Jews that became completed Jews in Christ. They became what we today call Christians.
And they all warn us not to give up our faith in Christ in our New Covenant relationship with God to return to a now defunct Old Covenant that rested on the Law of Moses.
You are not to abandon your faith in Jesus Christ for salvation to try to earn it under the Law of Moses; however, they are certainly welcome to join you and put their faith in Jesus Christ for their salvation.
Why would anyone who wasn't born Jewish want to turn Jewish?? That goes way back in the bible when the Jews were trying to turn everyone to go backwards saying they (gentiles) had to do all things as a Jew.
There are Jewish people and their are gentiles.
Yes their are Jews who receive Jesus and then they are shunned by their own families.
We are to pray for the Jews to know Jesus.
We weren't born and raised with a bunch of customs that are a part of the Jews life. Why would we start doing those things. It doesn't make us any closer to God. He loves them and he loves us.
This one church started doing this feast thing that the Jews do. I had a real bad feeling about it. So I asked the Lord should I go to this feast. He said are you Jewish. I said no. He said then why would you go. So I didn't go.
You know when the Jewish people receive Jesus it doesn't turn them into gentiles.
There are Jewish people and their are gentiles.
Yes their are Jews who receive Jesus and then they are shunned by their own families.
We are to pray for the Jews to know Jesus.
We weren't born and raised with a bunch of customs that are a part of the Jews life. Why would we start doing those things. It doesn't make us any closer to God. He loves them and he loves us.
This one church started doing this feast thing that the Jews do. I had a real bad feeling about it. So I asked the Lord should I go to this feast. He said are you Jewish. I said no. He said then why would you go. So I didn't go.
You know when the Jewish people receive Jesus it doesn't turn them into gentiles.
T
Well, I'm going to take a stab at this one. I am Jewish but I can't possibly speak for all Jews or most Jews or even all Jews of my own congregation. Just like there are many denominations of Christianity, there are many types of Jews with very different beliefs.
The idea that an atheist can still be considered Jewish but not a convert to Christianity has nothing to do with which is a "bigger" sin. The idea is that somone who professes no belief in God is simply a non-observant Jew. While someone who accepts Jesus has actively turned to a new religion. They have made a choice to exchange one religion for another. Now personally, I am not saying I agree with that view. I'm just trying to explain it. In my view, there are so many beliefs that have a place in Judiasm and I don't see why believing in Jesus woudl necessarily preclude someone from being Jewish. But I am not an "orthodox" Jew. I don't accept many many things that the Orthodox teach. The Orthodox (and many non orthodox) would tell you that the messiah was not meant to be devine, that the trinity is not monotheistic, that the Messaih was supposed to bring peace to Isreal, ect... Please don't ask me to defend those statements becuase I'm not equipped and I'm not Orthodox.
I will also say that some of the antipathy towards accepting Jews for Jesus comes from a history of fear of Christians forcibly converting Jews. Hundreds of years of persecution can make a people a little skiddish!
Now, as too why someone not born Jewish would want to accept Jesus AND take on all the Mosaic laws, I have no clue. Those laws were only meant to be applicable to someone born Jewish or converted to Judaism. Judaism NEVER taught that you must be Jewish to get to heaven. We always taught that the commandmants were an extra blessing given to the Jewish people. Non Jews would have a place in the Kingdom of God just by following the Noahide laws.
Sorry, If I'm rambling a little. Its late!
The idea that an atheist can still be considered Jewish but not a convert to Christianity has nothing to do with which is a "bigger" sin. The idea is that somone who professes no belief in God is simply a non-observant Jew. While someone who accepts Jesus has actively turned to a new religion. They have made a choice to exchange one religion for another. Now personally, I am not saying I agree with that view. I'm just trying to explain it. In my view, there are so many beliefs that have a place in Judiasm and I don't see why believing in Jesus woudl necessarily preclude someone from being Jewish. But I am not an "orthodox" Jew. I don't accept many many things that the Orthodox teach. The Orthodox (and many non orthodox) would tell you that the messiah was not meant to be devine, that the trinity is not monotheistic, that the Messaih was supposed to bring peace to Isreal, ect... Please don't ask me to defend those statements becuase I'm not equipped and I'm not Orthodox.
I will also say that some of the antipathy towards accepting Jews for Jesus comes from a history of fear of Christians forcibly converting Jews. Hundreds of years of persecution can make a people a little skiddish!
Now, as too why someone not born Jewish would want to accept Jesus AND take on all the Mosaic laws, I have no clue. Those laws were only meant to be applicable to someone born Jewish or converted to Judaism. Judaism NEVER taught that you must be Jewish to get to heaven. We always taught that the commandmants were an extra blessing given to the Jewish people. Non Jews would have a place in the Kingdom of God just by following the Noahide laws.
Sorry, If I'm rambling a little. Its late!
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Jews for Jesus - Jesus is the Jewish Messiah - Israel Behold your God - http://www.jewsforjesus.org/
Moishe Rosen used to frequent another voice chat program and admin a room called, "Jews for Jesus"; Moishe was a delightful man and Christian. Commenting on things written above I note that as many times as I had been present among this group (Jews for Jesus) I observed the bulk of the hatred and venom directed toward them came not from the Islamic community but from their own.
Moishe Rosen used to frequent another voice chat program and admin a room called, "Jews for Jesus"; Moishe was a delightful man and Christian. Commenting on things written above I note that as many times as I had been present among this group (Jews for Jesus) I observed the bulk of the hatred and venom directed toward them came not from the Islamic community but from their own.
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For sure but worse than foricible conversion was when they converted Jews ended up on the Roman Catholic Church's chopping block like in the Spanish inquisition where after the inquisitors went through the Jews and the Muslims (the latter that remained from Islam conquest of Southern Europe) they turned their attentions upon the Jewish converts to Christianity. Now the Portuguese inquisitors just targeted the Jewish "New Christians" right from the begining.
Jews who embrace Christ as their savior are still Jews,although the Jewish community would not think so.
In fact they are the true Jews.
The Bible says that when people embrace Christ and receive the Spirit they are a Jew inward,whether Jew or Gentile.
A Jewish person that embraces Christ is still a Jewish person,and they are doing what God of the Old Testament wants Jews to do,embrace Christ.
Jesus is the Jews God of the Old Testament showing Himself visibly to the Jews,in which God the Father in the Old Testament said that the Jews would know His new name,and He would speak to them.
Matt
In fact they are the true Jews.
The Bible says that when people embrace Christ and receive the Spirit they are a Jew inward,whether Jew or Gentile.
A Jewish person that embraces Christ is still a Jewish person,and they are doing what God of the Old Testament wants Jews to do,embrace Christ.
Jesus is the Jews God of the Old Testament showing Himself visibly to the Jews,in which God the Father in the Old Testament said that the Jews would know His new name,and He would speak to them.
Matt
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As for all the speculation why a non-Jewish Christian would want to adopt the Jewish way of life:
Its a form of worship. I'm not saying that what you do makes you any more spiritual but if I feel as though I'm worshiping God by praying to him on Shabbot or commemorating Passover with my family, how is that harmful? Also I see more Jewish households as being benevolent,family-building, exceedingly learned, and spiritual individuals...probably 90% more than the average Christian (sad but true).
I'm not saying denounce Christ. I would never do that. However, an outward Jewish practice from an inward appreciation of the heart may be old testiment, but it's still a part of our Bible people.
Its a form of worship. I'm not saying that what you do makes you any more spiritual but if I feel as though I'm worshiping God by praying to him on Shabbot or commemorating Passover with my family, how is that harmful? Also I see more Jewish households as being benevolent,family-building, exceedingly learned, and spiritual individuals...probably 90% more than the average Christian (sad but true).
I'm not saying denounce Christ. I would never do that. However, an outward Jewish practice from an inward appreciation of the heart may be old testiment, but it's still a part of our Bible people.
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You're deceiving yourself if you think that practicing ritual from the Law of Moses brings you any closer to God. That was the stumbling block false teachers were putting in front of new Jewish Christians that Paul spoke so harshly against. In Christ, it is finished.
The Jewish Christians I know were seriously shunned by their families as a result of converting to Christianity. That's not so "family-building."
The assembly I attend, a Vineyard, is very close and family-oriented and your portrayal of Christian families being in disunity couldn't be more wrong where I attend.
I enjoy reading the Old Testament and utilizing all of God's Word as he intends it to be utilized in the New Covenant relationship He has with those of us that are in Christ.
I don't believe for a minute that lighting candles, converting to Judaism, practicing the ritual of the Law of Moses, etc... brings me any closer to God. I'm spiritually reborn, filled with the spirit of God, in unity with Christ, living a holy life with His moral law written on my heart, etc... living each day for God led by His spirit moment by moment. Try that.
The Jewish Christians I know were seriously shunned by their families as a result of converting to Christianity. That's not so "family-building."
The assembly I attend, a Vineyard, is very close and family-oriented and your portrayal of Christian families being in disunity couldn't be more wrong where I attend.
I enjoy reading the Old Testament and utilizing all of God's Word as he intends it to be utilized in the New Covenant relationship He has with those of us that are in Christ.
I don't believe for a minute that lighting candles, converting to Judaism, practicing the ritual of the Law of Moses, etc... brings me any closer to God. I'm spiritually reborn, filled with the spirit of God, in unity with Christ, living a holy life with His moral law written on my heart, etc... living each day for God led by His spirit moment by moment. Try that.
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Deceiving myself? Those are harsh words, buddy. I fail to see how glorifying God through a symbolic way is counterproductive. Paul was condoning rituals for the sake of their old ways while not embracing the new- I simply want to try both while worshiping. If you think that's wrong, thats fine, but dont condone me by doing it. That's like me saying taking communion is stupid because Christ already died for our sins.
You might have a great church you go to, but in my personal experience (being America on the east coast) Christians are about as wishy washy as a Wirlpool dishwasher.
The Jewish people however, all over the world, are required to research their religion EXTENSIVELY and learn the language of their people (Hebrew). They even try to go to Israel as a part of their "birthright" to visit the places of their religion. Um, how many Christians do you know actually read the Bible? I can recall thats sort of a problem with Christianity these days.
Lastly how many Christian familys on average set apart a night to glorify God and pray to him together, with their whole community, while eating a meal? If you say you do that every night I bet you're in the minority. Yes, Messianic Jews do hold a very special place in my heart because they do care about their religion...and I do think a lot more than the average Christian does.
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Dread Zepalin,
I stand corrected. Your wanting to observe the beautiful Jewish rituals harms no one and I can certainly understand it. I gain great comfort and joy from the very things that you described. I guess that its sometimes hard for me to imagine that non Jews would find the same peace that I do.
I stand corrected. Your wanting to observe the beautiful Jewish rituals harms no one and I can certainly understand it. I gain great comfort and joy from the very things that you described. I guess that its sometimes hard for me to imagine that non Jews would find the same peace that I do.
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I see absolutely no problems embracing the Jewish roots of the faith, praise God! As long as you aren't going to get yourself into bondage, what do I mean by that? A lot of Christians who adopt Jewish traditions and old covenant laws begin to feel that if other Christian (specifically Gentile Christians) say don't keep certain laws like the dietary laws, not honoring sabbath in a certain way, then they are sinning against God. So it becomes not a form of salvation of works, but if it's a sin issue then you begin to rely on your ability to keep certain laws to keep yourself righteous when in reality by true faith (which produces fruit) in Messiah we are fulfilling the Torah as a whole.
Certainly that's not always the case and it's healthy to embrace the Jewish roots of the faith, like I said as long as it doesn't lead into bondage. Make sure you do a lot of praying and I recommend you check out some websites: Messianic Judaism - Finding the Real Messiah | RealMessiah.com and Home | Chosen People Ministries .
Shalom.
Certainly that's not always the case and it's healthy to embrace the Jewish roots of the faith, like I said as long as it doesn't lead into bondage. Make sure you do a lot of praying and I recommend you check out some websites: Messianic Judaism - Finding the Real Messiah | RealMessiah.com and Home | Chosen People Ministries .
Shalom.
S
Another thing Dread_Zeppelin,
After reading your other comment, I wouldn't base your walk with Yeshua upon how other so-called "Christians" live their life. That isn't a good standard to judge your own spirituality if you suddenly adapt a bunch of new traditions that won't make you more spiritual in fact it might do the opposite. I really encourage you to just spend some heart to heart time with the Lord and seek His face, fast for a few days perhaps you could be that spiritual influence on these Christians you are encountering that don't mirror the glory of God in their life.
Just a thought.
After reading your other comment, I wouldn't base your walk with Yeshua upon how other so-called "Christians" live their life. That isn't a good standard to judge your own spirituality if you suddenly adapt a bunch of new traditions that won't make you more spiritual in fact it might do the opposite. I really encourage you to just spend some heart to heart time with the Lord and seek His face, fast for a few days perhaps you could be that spiritual influence on these Christians you are encountering that don't mirror the glory of God in their life.
Just a thought.
D
I don't base my walk with God on how others live their life. That would be against everything I have been taught! I dont even want to adopt Jewish rituals to feel more spiritual or better than anyone- I simply want to praise my Lord for no other reason than just doing so.
Thank you for your comments, it's great a great encouragement to me.
Thank you for your comments, it's great a great encouragement to me.