Jews for Jesus, are liars?

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Shwagga

Guest
#61
#61
There is no other way. Read after the talk about the olive tree.

Romans 11
25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
“ The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”


There will be a regathering of the Jews, because God has not forsaken them. As for your comment about "the gentiles are grafted into the olive tree not Israel", they are grafted into Israel unless you believe there is salvation outside of the Messiah ;).
 
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Traderjane

Guest
#62
#62
With regard to the "Oral" law, the Orthodox Jews certainly do believe that it is the word of God along with the Tanakh (OT). It is clear that there were methods of practicing the written law that were simply understood at the time and passed from person to person. Imagine that thousands of years from now, someone finds a document that says, "We must stand and place our right hand over our hearts when saying the Pledge of Allegiance." Such a document might have no referance to what the pledge actually was becuase it is such common knowledge but there would be no doubt that some kind of pledge existed and was well known. There are referances to these sorts of things all over the OT. After the destruction of the Temple, in an effort to prevent this oral law from disappearing it was written in the Mishnah. To the Orthodox, the Mishna is every bit as binding as the OT.

IN contrast to this is the whole body of Rabbinic law. These are commentaries explaining the Tanakh and Mishna as well as the whole body of Rabbinic legal decisions through the ages. These are not considered the direct word of God and so are a bit more "changeable" however they are still considered binding.

Don't know if this helps but I think its interesting stuff!
 
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Shwagga

Guest
#63
#63
Traderjane said:
With regard to the "Oral" law, the Orthodox Jews certainly do believe that it is the word of God along with the Tanakh (OT). It is clear that there were methods of practicing the written law that were simply understood at the time and passed from person to person. Imagine that thousands of years from now, someone finds a document that says, "We must stand and place our right hand over our hearts when saying the Pledge of Allegiance." Such a document might have no referance to what the pledge actually was becuase it is such common knowledge but there would be no doubt that some kind of pledge existed and was well known. There are referances to these sorts of things all over the OT. After the destruction of the Temple, in an effort to prevent this oral law from disappearing it was written in the Mishnah. To the Orthodox, the Mishna is every bit as binding as the OT.

IN contrast to this is the whole body of Rabbinic law. These are commentaries explaining the Tanakh and Mishna as well as the whole body of Rabbinic legal decisions through the ages. These are not considered the direct word of God and so are a bit more "changeable" however they are still considered binding.

Don't know if this helps but I think its interesting stuff!
Click to expand...
Hey Traderjane, yes very interesting, here are some answers to the traditional objections.
Click on this link. Traditional Objections | RealMessiah.com
 
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Traderjane

Guest
#64
#64
HI Shwagga,

THat really is an interesting site. I will have to spend quite a bit more time looking at it. My examples above were not meant to try to prove the oral law as binding. I am not an Orthodox Jew and I don't believe it is binding. But I do think its clear that there were unwritten methods of observing the commandments that were well known at the time. I hate to put down anyone's beliefs but personally, even if those procedures were the word of God, I don't see why we have reason to believe they were written down inerringly so long after.

Ofcourse, I also have trouble with the idea that the entire OT is the perfect word of God but thats another story!

-Jane
 
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Crazy4GODword

Guest
#65
#65
Well in if you read when Jesus was talking about fasting and new wine in old wineskin (which refers to Judism can't be mixed with Christianity) i might be but maybe not liars, just might not know
 
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jamest48

Guest
#66
#66
I agree forerunner,God sent His Son to die for everyone,Jew and Gentile alike.We as Gentiles were grafted into the family of God through Jesus,the Father made a way for everyone to be saved,not just the Jewish people or the Gentiles.The bible says that God is no respecter of person,in His eyes we are all the same,lost and in need of a Saviour,anyway,God bless and keep you all,AMEN
 
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Crazy4GODword

Guest
#67
#67
Dread_Zeppelin said:
I recently made a very good friend who is Jewish and we jokingly started to talk about me converting to Judaism. He said it could be possible (I told him about Messianic Jews) that I wouldn't have to renounce Christ as God and be converted to the Jewish community...but only through a Reformed sect.

However, after researching the posibility online I came across a very uh, agressive, letter stating Christians could never be converted to Judaism and the Jews who convert to Christianity are no longer Jewish. That means Messianic Jews are farce imposters, as well as Jews for Jesus.

I was wondering- if this is true and Jews who convert to Christianity are truely no longer "Jewish", how can you argue that Judaism is a race and not just a religion? Or is that ignored when you become Christian (aka fake Jew) as a penalty of beliving in Christ?

How do Messianic Jews feel? Are you a black sheep in the Jewish community? Are you not recognised at all? Do you do conversions?
Click to expand...
now wait, Messianic Jew is another name for Christians........Christian is the term that was first used in Antioch. I believe they are Christian not fakes.....see for some reason they want to be called Messianic Jews but it keep there original name Jew.....and if you look at the word Christian it has Christ well Messianic has Messiah which is the same.

They really prefer to be called Messianic Jews instead of Christians.....but really they are the same thing except not all Christians are Jewish (not by religion Judiasm but by blood line)

Messiah----Christ

there is a Messianic Jew on this website...

then you got to think about them by themselves.....they are serous about there genealogy, and there blood line by keeping it pure, ect,,,,,so i can imaging why they would still want the name Jew.
 
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dmdave17

Guest
#68
#68
So if I understand the gist of this thread correctly, Jews for Jesus are not "liars", per se. They believe that they are Jewish, and they believe in Jesus Christ as the Messiah. However, many Jews hold to the belief that they (Jews for Jesus) are no longer Jewish because of their "misplaced" loyalties.

Is this what we have concluded?
 
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Crazy4GODword

Guest
#69
#69
dmdave17 said:
So if I understand the gist of this thread correctly, Jews for Jesus are not "liars", per se. They believe that they are Jewish, and they believe in Jesus Christ as the Messiah. However, many Jews hold to the belief that they (Jews for Jesus) are no longer Jewish because of their "misplaced" loyalties.

Is this what we have concluded?
Click to expand...
whew ok, Jews are people they are a race......Jews can also be refered to belonging to the religion Judaism which is not Christianity....

Now say if i was Japanese by blood that means it is not the religion that i am Japanese but born in the race...same with Jews

Jews do not always mean they follow judaism but that is the main religion for their race.....

it is possible for a Jew to be Christian and still be a Jew
 
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