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A
There is no condemnation in Christ and you are a born again Christian so congratulations. I'm actually trying to help you by explaining to you the Apostle's view of a return to Judaism as found in the Bible. Their main primary point is always not to put your faith for your salvation in such things or to think following the ritual of Judaism somehow makes God love you more or justifies you any more than if you are in Christ. If you are in Christ, you are loved PLENTY by God and that's a fact.
There are many Christians that do celebrate Jewish holidays. I've met Christian pastors and their families who do this. I don't think it's wrong per se, but it can lead to confusion if you begin to listen to Judaizers who reject Christ. The Seventh Day Adventists specifically error trusting in observance of the Sabbath to maintain their salvation and teach we'll all burn in hell during the tribulation for not keeping it. When you start going down this road, you're in error. Just cared enough that I wanted to point it out to you is all. Peace and God bless you.
There are many Christians that do celebrate Jewish holidays. I've met Christian pastors and their families who do this. I don't think it's wrong per se, but it can lead to confusion if you begin to listen to Judaizers who reject Christ. The Seventh Day Adventists specifically error trusting in observance of the Sabbath to maintain their salvation and teach we'll all burn in hell during the tribulation for not keeping it. When you start going down this road, you're in error. Just cared enough that I wanted to point it out to you is all. Peace and God bless you.
Christians and the Jewish Law
Why do Christians not keep the Jewish laws? There are people in our community who believe that salvation is of grace through Christ's blood, but also believe Christ meant us to keep the law.
If the emails we receive are any indication, Christians who attempt to keep the Jewish laws are on the increase. We have the Messianic Jews, the seventh-Day Adventists, and other various groups who are sure that we are still under the law of Moses to some degree or another. Anytime I question this bondage, I get angry emails from people who seem to think that I have attacked God.
I remember wondering when I was younger why the New Testament deals so much with the liberty we have from the Old Testament law. Much of Romans, practically the entire book of Galatians, and other portions of scripture, deal clearly with this. Now I know why God gave so much text on this. Man has a tendency to reduce living Christianity to a set of laws. This seems even more valid if we use the laws God gave to the Jews. Even in the book of Revelation, John speaks of "the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not" (Revelation 2:9). This has been a problem area for the last 2,000 years.
However, the Bible is very clear when it comes to the authority of the law in this age. We can learn from it, for it teaches us many things. However, we are free from the rules and regulations of this law. Let us look at some of the proofs for this teaching in scripture.
Reagan, David
Why do Christians not keep the Jewish laws? There are people in our community who believe that salvation is of grace through Christ's blood, but also believe Christ meant us to keep the law.
If the emails we receive are any indication, Christians who attempt to keep the Jewish laws are on the increase. We have the Messianic Jews, the seventh-Day Adventists, and other various groups who are sure that we are still under the law of Moses to some degree or another. Anytime I question this bondage, I get angry emails from people who seem to think that I have attacked God.
I remember wondering when I was younger why the New Testament deals so much with the liberty we have from the Old Testament law. Much of Romans, practically the entire book of Galatians, and other portions of scripture, deal clearly with this. Now I know why God gave so much text on this. Man has a tendency to reduce living Christianity to a set of laws. This seems even more valid if we use the laws God gave to the Jews. Even in the book of Revelation, John speaks of "the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not" (Revelation 2:9). This has been a problem area for the last 2,000 years.
However, the Bible is very clear when it comes to the authority of the law in this age. We can learn from it, for it teaches us many things. However, we are free from the rules and regulations of this law. Let us look at some of the proofs for this teaching in scripture.
- The Bible clearly states that we are not under the law. Romans 6:14 says, "For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace." Since we are under grace, we are not under the law. The two are mutually exclusive.
- Jesus Christ has delivered us from the curse of the law (Galatians 3:10-13). Those who "are of the works of the law are under the curse" (v.10) But "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law" (v.13). We come to God by faith and "the law is not of faith" (v.12).
- Before faith came (clear faith in the person of Jesus Christ), we were kept under the law (Galatians 3:23). The "law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ" (v.24). "But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster" (v.25). How much clearer could it be? We are no longer under the Mosaic law as a rule of practice.
- In Galatians, Paul goes even further. The very desire to be under the law is a carnal desire. He calls the Galatians "foolish" for trying to return to the practices of the law as a way to please God (Galatians 3:1-3). In Galatians 4:21-31, he tells an allegory to those "that desire to be under the law" (v.21). He concludes that those who follow the law are "children of the bondwoman" (v.31), but those who follow faith are "free." Paul is not dealing here with the law as a plan for salvation. He is dealing with those who have trusted in Christ and then desire to return to the law in order to please God.
- The council in Jerusalem in Acts 15 plainly stated that the requirements of the law were not to be exacted from Gentile believers. It also clearly states that Jews must come to Christ in the same way that Gentiles get saved--"But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they" (v.11). The problem came when certain of the Pharisees decided that the Gentiles who had believed must be circumcised and keep the law of Moses (v.5). The men at the conference (including Peter, Paul, Barnabas, and James the brother of Jesus) agreed that this was not to be required of the Gentiles. Peter even accused the Pharisees of tempting God, "to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear" (v.10). Evidently, it is tempting God to require grace age believers to keep the Jewish regulations of the law.
- Paul specifically excludes circumcision as a requirement for New Testament believers. See Galatians 5:1-6; 6:15.
- We are not subject to the particular restrictions of the law. Colossians 2:16-17 states, "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ." the Jewish laws were shadows of things to come. That is, they pointed to Christ. But now that Jesus Christ has come, there is no need to hold on to the shadow.
Reagan, David
A
Judaizers are those people and sects that error in insisting a person's salvation or the maintenance of their salvation after conversion is dependent on observing the Law of Moses that God had with the nation of Israel under the Old Covenant before the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ who implemented a New Covenant which authentic Christians are under.
Paul's response is given in Galatians 2:16: "We know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified."
While the heresy of the Judaizers was put to rest by the Apostle Paul, the idea behind their erroneous belief still permeates the church today. The issues are no longer circumcision or ceremonial uncleanness, but the question of how the law relates to salvation, or how works relate to righteousness, is still something that many Christians remain confused about today.
Paul's exhortation to the Judaizers remains as important as ever. It is not by works that we are saved, but solely by the grace of Christ. In fact, to add anything to the work of Christ for salvation actually negates God's grace. Paul says, "I do not nullify the grace of God, for if justification were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose" (Gal. 2:21).
Under the terms of the old covenant, man’s guilty conscience in relation to God could not be perfected (Heb. 9:9); but deliverance has been made possible by the work of Christ under the terms of the new covenant (9:14), and by the appropriation of the benefits of the death of Jesus through Christian initiation (10:22; cf. 1 Pet. 3:21). In terms of spiritual growth, therefore, a worshipper’s conscience may be described as ‘good’ (Heb. 13:18).
In the divine work of sanctification the Spirit works to effect a two-fold human response. On the one hand, the Spirit calls believers to present or give themselves to God (see Rom 12:1; 6:15–22; 1 Thess 4:1–8). This involves a hearty obedience to the will of God (Rom 6:17) and, above all, a focus on Jesus Christ the Son of God, into whose image the believer is being transformed by the Spirit.
On the other hand, there is a negative side to sanctification involving death to sin (Rom 6:12–23), renunciation of the way of “the flesh” (Gal 5:16–24; Rom 8:2–14) and full surrender of selfish autonomy to the holy will of God as it is brought to light through the agency of the Spirit.
This is accomplished through God in the believer and not the Mosaic Law. Sanctification anticipates a process of growth and maturation in and through the Spirit (1 Cor 3:6–7; 2 Cor 10:15; Eph 2:21; 4:13–16; Col 2:19), of being made perfect by the indwelling Spirit of Christ (Rom 12:2; 2 Cor 7:1; 13:9; 1 Thess 3:13). Though Paul admitted it was a process of transformation that occurred over time and even he had not accomplished perfect sanctification.
So when you are converted you are justified in the eyes of God, who remembers your sin no more, not by keeping of the Mosaic Law but by the the finished work of Christ who fulfilled the Law of Moses and brought an end to the Old Covenant which God had with the nation of Israel implementing a New Covenant in which a process of sanctification is occurring in every authentic spiritually reborn believer as the person of God the Holy Spirit transforms them into the image of the person of His son: Jesus Christ in accordance with the will of the person of God the Father.
Enjoy your new life in Christ and pursue God and the process of sanctification of the entire moral law (not just the ten commandments my Judaizing Seventh Day Adventist friends) which God himself has written on your heart.
Paul's response is given in Galatians 2:16: "We know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified."
While the heresy of the Judaizers was put to rest by the Apostle Paul, the idea behind their erroneous belief still permeates the church today. The issues are no longer circumcision or ceremonial uncleanness, but the question of how the law relates to salvation, or how works relate to righteousness, is still something that many Christians remain confused about today.
Paul's exhortation to the Judaizers remains as important as ever. It is not by works that we are saved, but solely by the grace of Christ. In fact, to add anything to the work of Christ for salvation actually negates God's grace. Paul says, "I do not nullify the grace of God, for if justification were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose" (Gal. 2:21).
Under the terms of the old covenant, man’s guilty conscience in relation to God could not be perfected (Heb. 9:9); but deliverance has been made possible by the work of Christ under the terms of the new covenant (9:14), and by the appropriation of the benefits of the death of Jesus through Christian initiation (10:22; cf. 1 Pet. 3:21). In terms of spiritual growth, therefore, a worshipper’s conscience may be described as ‘good’ (Heb. 13:18).
In the divine work of sanctification the Spirit works to effect a two-fold human response. On the one hand, the Spirit calls believers to present or give themselves to God (see Rom 12:1; 6:15–22; 1 Thess 4:1–8). This involves a hearty obedience to the will of God (Rom 6:17) and, above all, a focus on Jesus Christ the Son of God, into whose image the believer is being transformed by the Spirit.
On the other hand, there is a negative side to sanctification involving death to sin (Rom 6:12–23), renunciation of the way of “the flesh” (Gal 5:16–24; Rom 8:2–14) and full surrender of selfish autonomy to the holy will of God as it is brought to light through the agency of the Spirit.
This is accomplished through God in the believer and not the Mosaic Law. Sanctification anticipates a process of growth and maturation in and through the Spirit (1 Cor 3:6–7; 2 Cor 10:15; Eph 2:21; 4:13–16; Col 2:19), of being made perfect by the indwelling Spirit of Christ (Rom 12:2; 2 Cor 7:1; 13:9; 1 Thess 3:13). Though Paul admitted it was a process of transformation that occurred over time and even he had not accomplished perfect sanctification.
So when you are converted you are justified in the eyes of God, who remembers your sin no more, not by keeping of the Mosaic Law but by the the finished work of Christ who fulfilled the Law of Moses and brought an end to the Old Covenant which God had with the nation of Israel implementing a New Covenant in which a process of sanctification is occurring in every authentic spiritually reborn believer as the person of God the Holy Spirit transforms them into the image of the person of His son: Jesus Christ in accordance with the will of the person of God the Father.
Enjoy your new life in Christ and pursue God and the process of sanctification of the entire moral law (not just the ten commandments my Judaizing Seventh Day Adventist friends) which God himself has written on your heart.
T
Thank you for the really interesting responses! I know very little about the intricacies of Christian doctrine but based on what I know of Jewish law, I find it hard to understand why a Christian would need to keep the Mosaic Law at all. Judaism never intended the 613 commandments to apply to Gentiles and in fact, perspective converts to Judaism are always advised that you dont need to be Jew in order to have a place in the Kingdom of God. Gentiles were always seen as rightous by following the7 Noahide laws given by God to all of mankind. These are pretty basic laws.
Also, as I have said elsewhere, there is no one unified theory of the afterlife in Judaism, but even for a born Jew, the mosaic law was not followed in order to save one from hell. Hell, as such, does not exist in Judaism. You follow the laws becuase they are a blessing and a priviledge, not becuase they get you any particular reward in the afterlife. So although I can easily see why someone would want to observe the law, I can't imagine how it would be required.
-Jane
Also, as I have said elsewhere, there is no one unified theory of the afterlife in Judaism, but even for a born Jew, the mosaic law was not followed in order to save one from hell. Hell, as such, does not exist in Judaism. You follow the laws becuase they are a blessing and a priviledge, not becuase they get you any particular reward in the afterlife. So although I can easily see why someone would want to observe the law, I can't imagine how it would be required.
-Jane
L
Christians who believe they should follow the law do so mainly because Matthew 5:17. Jesus says he did not come to abolish the law, so if we are going to serve God we should do so as He commanded. Throughout the New Testament Paul says gentiles have been "grafted in" to the family of God. If we are part of the family of God, we should obey God's rules.
Just like Jews, we do not follow the laws to save ourselves from hell. Neither do we think the laws make us righteous. We follow the laws in order to be obedient children to God, and as a sign of love to Him.
Just like Jews, we do not follow the laws to save ourselves from hell. Neither do we think the laws make us righteous. We follow the laws in order to be obedient children to God, and as a sign of love to Him.
L
Messianics are not fake Jews. I might label J4J as fake Jews, since they forsake everything about their religion, but the name. Messianics that don't subscribe to the J4J doctrine can be very Jewish, just as Jewish as an orthodox Jew, actually. It depends on who you encounter. It's only the Orthodox Jews who ignore Messianics. Some conservative might ignore Messianics. Most Reform Jews are accepting of Messianics.
As to Judaism being a race: Judaism 101: What Is Judaism?
I have never met a Messianic who has tried to tell me, or any other Christian for that matter, that they can convert to Judaism. I've known for quite some time that it would be impossible for me to ever become Jewish.
I know my Messianic friend isn't happy about the fact that they don't accept him as Jewish. He still considers himself Jewish, though. I'm not sure what you mean by your last question: "Do you do conversions?"
As to Judaism being a race: Judaism 101: What Is Judaism?
I have never met a Messianic who has tried to tell me, or any other Christian for that matter, that they can convert to Judaism. I've known for quite some time that it would be impossible for me to ever become Jewish.
I know my Messianic friend isn't happy about the fact that they don't accept him as Jewish. He still considers himself Jewish, though. I'm not sure what you mean by your last question: "Do you do conversions?"
the gentiles are grafted into the OLIVE TREE, not Israel.
the Olive Tree is Christ's Church. the natural branches are those belonging to the family through whom Jesus came. if they accept Christ, they remain. if they reject Him, they are cut off.
the wild branches are gentiles. if they accept Christ, they are grafted in, being exactly the same, since there is only ONE TREE. if they deny Christ after being grafted in, they are cut off.
NO DIFFERENCE. no boasting: all remain on the tree only by the Finished Work of Christ, in Whom we believe only due to God's Grace and the gift of faith.
the PROMISE was and is JESUS CHRIST. receive the promise and live, reject the Promise and be cut off.
the NOAHIDE LAWS are from the Babylonian Talmud, Mystery Religion.
Talmudic Judaism is NOT OF GOD, and nothing whatsoever to do with Him.
it's nothing new.
EZEKIEL 8
1 And it came to pass in the sixth year, in the sixth month, in the fifth day of the month, as I sat in mine house, and the elders of Judah sat before me, that the hand of the Lord GOD fell there upon me.
2 Then I beheld, and lo a likeness as the appearance of fire: from the appearance of his loins even downward, fire; and from his loins even upward, as the appearance of brightness, as the colour of amber.
3 And he put forth the form of an hand, and took me by a lock of mine head; and the spirit lifted me up between the earth and the heaven, and brought me in the visions of God to Jerusalem, to the door of the inner gate that looketh toward the north; where was the seat of the image of jealousy, which provoketh to jealousy.
4 And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel was there, according to the vision that I saw in the plain.
5 Then said he unto me, Son of man, lift up thine eyes now the way toward the north. So I lifted up mine eyes the way toward the north, and behold northward at the gate of the altar this image of jealousy in the entry.
6 He said furthermore unto me, Son of man, seest thou what they do? even the great abominations that the house of Israel committeth here, that I should go far off from my sanctuary? but turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations.
7 And he brought me to the door of the court; and when I looked, behold a hole in the wall.
8 Then said he unto me, Son of man, dig now in the wall: and when I had digged in the wall, behold a door.
9And he said unto me, Go in, and behold the wicked abominations that they do here.
10 So I went in and saw; and behold every form of creeping things, and abominable beasts, and all the idols of the house of Israel, pourtrayed upon the wall round about.
11 And there stood before them seventy men of the ancients of the house of Israel, and in the midst of them stood Jaazaniah the son of Shaphan, with every man his censer in his hand; and a thick cloud of incense went up.
12 Then said he unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen what the ancients of the house of Israel do in the dark, every man in the chambers of his imagery? for they say, The LORD seeth us not; the LORD hath forsaken the earth.
13 He said also unto me, Turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations that they do.
14 Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the LORD'S house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz.
15 Then said he unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations than these.
16 And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD'S house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.
17 Then he said unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? Is it a light thing to the house of Judah that they commit the abominations which they commit here? for they have filled the land with violence, and have returned to provoke me to anger: and, lo, they put the branch to their nose.
18 Therefore will I also deal in fury: mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity: and though they cry in mine ears with a loud voice, yet will I not hear them.
pretty scary
z
T
That is fascinating. So the basic idea is that since Gentiles are grafted in it is almost like a conversion to Judaism or adoption into Isreal. In that case, I can understand the desire to follow the law. But, I would not think it would be necessarily required of anyone who considered themselves Christian.
Out of curiosity, what law do you consider important to follow? Just the written law from the OT or do you include the Oral law which was being practiced at the time of Jesus as well? For example, if you keep the laws of Kashrut, which interpretation do you use? I assume the Rabbinic law is not considered at all.
Thanks for a great forum
-Jane
Out of curiosity, what law do you consider important to follow? Just the written law from the OT or do you include the Oral law which was being practiced at the time of Jesus as well? For example, if you keep the laws of Kashrut, which interpretation do you use? I assume the Rabbinic law is not considered at all.
Thanks for a great forum
-Jane
L
Kind of like that, yes. I don't think I'm Jewish and I don't think I replace Israel, though.
I follow some Rabbinic laws, like I don't eat any red meat and milk together. I don't know much about Rabbinic law, though, so I mostly just follow written law. All I know about Rabbinic law is what I read online, and there are no orthodox synagogues around here to go ask them about it.
I follow some Rabbinic laws, like I don't eat any red meat and milk together. I don't know much about Rabbinic law, though, so I mostly just follow written law. All I know about Rabbinic law is what I read online, and there are no orthodox synagogues around here to go ask them about it.
if i may,
again, the Olive Tree is NOT ISRAEL. it is CHRIST'S CHURCH > jew and gentile > no difference.
the natural branches are the Israelites, through whom Jesus came. if they accept Him, they remain.
the wild branches are the gentiles. if they accept Him, they are grafted in.
we are not grafted into JUDAISM.
the ORAL LAW is not of GOD.
the ORAL LAW came from Babylon and is Pharisee Talmudic Judaism. Rabbinic "Law" is absolutely not accepted.
Mark 7:13
Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
i realize i've said this a thousand times, and i'll say it a million times if i have to.
determined...no matter how politically uncorrect.
zone
again, the Olive Tree is NOT ISRAEL. it is CHRIST'S CHURCH > jew and gentile > no difference.
the natural branches are the Israelites, through whom Jesus came. if they accept Him, they remain.
the wild branches are the gentiles. if they accept Him, they are grafted in.
we are not grafted into JUDAISM.
the ORAL LAW is not of GOD.
the ORAL LAW came from Babylon and is Pharisee Talmudic Judaism. Rabbinic "Law" is absolutely not accepted.
Mark 7:13
Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
i realize i've said this a thousand times, and i'll say it a million times if i have to.
determined...no matter how politically uncorrect.
zone
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