Jews

[dcontroversal]

yes the bible is clear about the promise of the one seed,

but the bible gives promises to a physical nation Isreal, called the birthrite.

about a physical nation that God said would spread across the world, not a spirit nation.

yes we have a new covenent, but the things to come, about decendents of the old nation still stands.

Oh, I agree......they (Israel as a national entity) will look upon him whom they pierced and weep for him as one does for the loss of a firstborn son......They will believe collectively!

 

[Elin]

But the "ten lost tribes" are found in the Bible after the exile, in

1) prophecies relating to the return from exile
---Jer 3:18, 31:27, 31 (where "Israel" is the northern kingdom of the ten tribes)

-ok lets go check some of those verses to see shall we.

[# 1] Jer 3:
18 In those days [the house of Judah] shall walk with [the house of Israel],
and they shall come together out of the land of the north to the land that I have
given for an inheritance unto your fathers.

Jer 31:
27 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will sow the house of Israel [and]
the house of Judah with the seed of man, and with the seed of beast.

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with
[the house of Israel], and with [the house of Judah]:

Is not Israel (the ten lost tribes) found in those prophecies?

 

[prove-all]

Oh, I agree......they (Israel as a national entity) will look upon him whom they pierced and weep for him as one does for the loss of a firstborn son......They will believe collectively!

4And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations,
and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations.
5And strangers shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of
the alien shall be your plowmen and your vinedressers.

6But ye shall be named the Priests of the Lord: men shall call you the Ministers of our God:
ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves.
7For your shame ye shall have double; and for confusion they shall rejoice in their portion:
therefore in their land they shall possess the double: everlasting joy shall be unto them.

8For I the Lord love judgment, I hate robbery for burnt offering; and I will direct their work in truth,
and I will make an everlasting covenant with them.
9And their seed shall be known among the Gentiles, and their offspring among the people:
all that see them shall acknowledge them, that they are the seed which the Lord hath blessed.

 

[Elin]

But the "ten lost tribes" are found in the Bible after the exile, in

1) prophecies relating to the return from exile
---Jer 3:18, 31:27, 31 (where "Israel" is the northern kingdom of the ten tribes)
---Eze 37:15-22 (where "Ephraim" is the northern kingdom of ten tribes--see Is 7:17 for use of "Ephraim")

[1]Eze 37:15-22

- the start of the chapter talks about bringing the dead back to life.
go back a few verses and see graves[of dead people]are opened.

12Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people,
I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves,
and bring you [into the land of Israel].

13And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves,
O my people, [and brought you up out] of your graves,

14And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your [own land]:
then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord.

-this is a resurection from the graves, not God opening peoples eyes to see the truth.
the 2 sticks are not one now, and only [the jews] can be seen in plain view today.

16Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it,

For Judah, and for [the children of Israel] his companions:

then take another stick, and write upon it,

For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all [the house of Israel] his companions:

17And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.

19Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in
the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with
the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.

-the children of Israel will be joined to the house of Israel, 2 different peoples.

Is Ephraim (the ten lost tribes) not found in the above prophecy?

 

[prove-all]

Is not Israel (the ten lost tribes) found in those prophecies?

yes the lost tribes are metioned in many verses, that [has not] happened yet.

-you left out part of the question [after the exile]


this verse is not about the return of Israel to Jerusalem city after babalyion, after that exile

 

[prove-all]

Is Ephraim (the ten lost tribes) not found in the above prophecy?

again after the exile of babalyion you said,

 

[Elin]

But the "ten lost tribes" are found in the Bible after the exile, in

1) prophecies relating to the return from exile
---Jer 3:18, 31:27, 31 (where "Israel" is the northern kingdom of the ten tribes)
---Eze 37:15-22 (where "Ephraim" is the northern kingdom of ten tribes--see Is 7:17 for use of "Ephraim")

2) return from exile - Ezra 6:17

3) NT - Ac 26:7, Jas 1:1

How could they be lost?

[Ezra 6:17]
And offered [at the dedication of this house of God] an hundred bullocks,
two hundred rams, four hundred lambs;
and for a sin offering [for all Israel], twelve he goats, according to the number of the tribes of Israel

Are not the ten "lost" tribes found in Ezra 6:17?

- the children of the captivity made the offering for all the tribes of Israel, -only twelve goats,
it does not say that all Israel was there, a sin offering was made by jews, in all there behalf.

So they existed. . .and were not lost.

 

[Elin]

-current lost tribes of Israel, that was deforced by God.

But the "ten lost tribes" are found in the Bible after the exile, in

1) prophecies relating to the return from exile
---Jer 3:18, 31:27, 31 (where "Israel" is the northern kingdom of the ten tribes)
---Eze 37:15-22 (where "Ephraim" is the northern kingdom of ten tribes--see Is 7:17 for use of "Ephraim")
2) return from exile - Ezra 6:17

3) NT - Ac 26:7, Jas 1:1

How could they be lost?

-[Ac 26:7]
Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come.
For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews.

-[James1:1]
James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ,
to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

Are not the ten "lost" tribes in Ac 26:7 and Jas 1:1?

There were no lost tribes in the exile, all are found in the Bible after the exile.

 

[Blain]

I have both Jew and french in me

 

[prove-all]

Are not the ten "lost" tribes found in Ezra 6:17?

.

all Israel are mentioned, it does not say there where there at all.

other verses i gave shows who returned, Isreal was not one of them.

I explained the best I could, if you do not believe clear bible verses,

that is your choice, but will now go back and reexplain it to you.

 

[Elin]

all Israel are mentioned, it does not say there where there at all.

So they existed, and were not lost.

They were likewise stated as existing (Ac 26:7), as well as addressed (Jas 1:1), in the NT.

No tribes were lost, dissolved, or disappeared in the exile.

 

[prove-all]

So they existed, and were not lost.

They were likewise stated as existing (Ac 26:7), as well as addressed (Jas 1:1), in the NT.

No tribes were lost, dissolved, or disappeared in the exile.

they where lost from mans view, they where mentioned but where not there.

they lost there idenity, there language, there former home,

uprooted and scattered to the four corners of the world, lost from mans view.

God knows where they are, he is hidding his face from them , but will remember them again,

and the 2 kingdoms will be back together again, but we see only the jews now.

 

[prove-all]

So they existed, and were not lost.

They were likewise stated as existing (Ac 26:7), as well as addressed (Jas 1:1), in the NT.

No tribes were lost, dissolved, or disappeared in the exile.

mabe you could bing [lost ten tribes of israel] to see what others say.

was never metioned they dissolved, but dispersed with there exile

of the Assarians

 

[Elin]

So they existed, and were not lost.

They were likewise stated as existing (Ac 26:7), and addressed as existing (Jas 1:1), in the NT.

No tribes were lost, dissolved, or disappeared in the exile.

they where lost from mans view, they where mentioned but where not there.

Scripture does not agree with you.

Remnants of every tribe were preserved and were there in Ezra 6:17,
were there hoping in the Messiah, the Kingdom and the resurrection in Ac 26:7-8,
and were there to receive a letter in Jas 1:1.

No tribes dissolved or disappeared in the exile.

they lost there identity,

Ezra, Paul and James do not agree with you.

 

[Elin]

mabe you could bing [lost ten tribes of israel] to see what others say.

was never metioned they dissolved, but dispersed with there exile

of the Assarians

Many deny it.

 

[Atwood]

Actually, He came for the Jews to be the King of the Jews but they rejected Him. no longer Jews. We were gentiles, and now we're Christians, simple as that. It's in the Bible.

But you don't prove it from the Bible. Actually physical Jews who trust Christ as Savior then become real Jews (Romans 2) for the first time in their lives -- you cannot even be a real Jew without trusting Christ as Savior & thus becoming part of the Church (see Romans 9; Philippians 2). However, in the sphere of the Church there is neither Jew nor Gentile.

 

[Atwood]

Lets see your list of 10 lost tribes. The priests & Levites who served the temple in Jerusalem (Judah) were not taken in the Assyrian captivity. Paul, the Benjamite was not "lost." Luke 2:36 And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher. Anna was not "lost." IMHO, the tribes taken by Assyria simply lost their specific tribal identity as did most of the rest of the Jews, though they still include sir names of Cohen (preist) and Levy.

The Tribe of Simeon was engulfed by Judah, so I doubt that they went with the Assyrians either. Check a map of Simeon if you don't know what I mean.

 

[Atwood]

Observe...


'The only point is that the relationship worked out in individual stories gives to John’s use of ιουδαιοις an emphasis which obviously did not lie in the name previously, but was made possible by the fact it denoted the religious attitude of those who were thus designated is a name for those who reject the claim of Jesus to lordship, and who remain Jews because they do so.'

Reference:
Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (TDNT), Gerhard Kittel, Gerhard Friedrich, & Geoffrey W. Bromiley, volume three, pp. 359 - 391

Just because Kittel opines something, does not prove it correct. TDNT does not overrule the Bible which is clear on what a true Jew is. It is notable that the Kittel writer just makes an assertion in your quote with no proof. Now John's use of Jew is a special problem of interpretation. Obviously in John the followers of the Lord Jesus are Jews, practically exclusively Jews. Yet the bad guys are called "Jews." I take it that John is referring to those who were called "Jews" in his later day -- like ourselves when we call Talmudists Jews. In other words, John is calling those who already had the mentality which became solidified after Christianity was established, Jews. They are not true Jews as Romans defines them, but popularly called "Jews."

It seems that our modern Jews really object to the use of Jew in John as the bad guys. The issue came up with the movie The Gospel of John, which employs a particular modern translation which renders the Jews as "the Jewish leaders," or something like that.

 

[Bowman]

Just because Kittel opines something, does not prove it correct. TDNT does not overrule the Bible which is clear on what a true Jew is. It is notable that the Kittel writer just makes an assertion in your quote with no proof. Now John's use of Jew is a special problem of interpretation. Obviously in John the followers of the Lord Jesus are Jews, practically exclusively Jews. Yet the bad guys are called "Jews." I take it that John is referring to those who were called "Jews" in his later day -- like ourselves when we call Talmudists Jews. In other words, John is calling those who already had the mentality which became solidified after Christianity was established, Jews. They are not true Jews as Romans defines them, but popularly called "Jews."

It seems that our modern Jews really object to the use of Jew in John as the bad guys. The issue came up with the movie The Gospel of John, which employs a particular modern translation which renders the Jews as "the Jewish leaders," or something like that.

The term 'Jew' is flexible in nature, and its definition is determined via context.

Its meaning ranges from ethnicity to theological worldview.

Case in point...in what way was Jesus a Jew...?

Theologically? No.

Ethnically, only.