JUDGEMENT is coming down on America!

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C

Cup-of-Ruin

Guest
The third one, honestly, how could anybody take that seriously? The man had Jesus killed, and we're supposed to believe he really wrote THAT glowingly about Him ? How gullible do you have to be... ? But that's what it really is.
This incorrect, Gospels clearly state as do historical sources, that Pilate did not find Him guilty, and 'washed his hands clean'. Jesus was then handed back to the jews and Judean officials who with Roman soldiers under their command killed the Lord Jesus Christ. Actually Pilate stated in his letters that He believed that Jesus was the Son of God and the Lord.

Pilate - "I find no fault in Him at all"

Pilate - "Therefore I bring Him forth to you, that you may know that I find no fault in Him."

The Jews - "Crucify Him, crucify Him!"

Pilate - "You take Him and crucify Him, for I find no fault in Him."

"And hence fourth Pilate sought to releace Jesus: But the Jews cried out"

The Jews - "Away with Him, away with Him, crucify Him"

Pilate - "Shall I crucify your king?"

The Jews - "We have no king, but Caesar!"

"Then delivered he Him unto them to be crucified, And they took Jesus away."


So there we have John's account, it agrees with all Gospels that Pilate and the Romans did not kill the Lord, but the Jews did, that's the facts.
 
C

Cup-of-Ruin

Guest
EDIT:Also, 2 translations? You STILL didn't provide a reason for why they were excluded in other translations. for all i know these other versions were by people who had an axe to grind.
Actually that's three I have given now, do you have a problem with counting or something?
 
Sep 27, 2009
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This incorrect, Gospels clearly state as do historical sources, that Pilate did not find Him guilty
Excuse me?

Jesus was then handed back to the jews and Judean officials who with Roman soldiers under their command killed the Lord Jesus Christ.
Okay, yeah, so you DO admit, it was Roman soldiers, not some Jewish mob. This is only logical since the very concept of crucifiction itself IS Roman, not Jewish. Thank you, that's exactly what I said. It's a pretty cowardly move to act like you have nothing to do with something that soldiers under YOUR command are executing. But then, that's the Romans for you.

His hands aren't clean, in MY book, but it's ultimately up to G-d to judge that.
 
C

Cup-of-Ruin

Guest
Excuse me?



Okay, yeah, so you DO admit, it was Roman soldiers, not some Jewish mob. This is only logical since the very concept of crucifiction itself IS Roman, not Jewish. Thank you, that's exactly what I said. It's a pretty cowardly move to act like you have nothing to do with something that soldiers under YOUR command are executing. But then, that's the Romans for you.

His hands aren't clean, in MY book, but it's ultimately up to G-d to judge that.
The Jews - "Crucify Him, Crucify Him"

Jesus - "If My kingdom was of this world then My servants would fight, that I should not be delivered unto the Jews: but now My kingdom is not of this world."

Pilate - "I find no fault in Him, at all"
 
Jul 29, 2009
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Roman soldiers who were not acting as representatives of Roman government.

So, the Roman government was not responsible, because the government official (Pilate) washed his hands of it.
 

Kakashi

Senior Member
Jan 3, 2007
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Actually that's three I have given now, do you have a problem with counting or something?

Hey, no need to get snarky. i read from a post where you said 2 so i went with 2. 3 versions as oppsoed to how many others? There had to be a REASON why someone would leave those things out. They were either concocted later on or taken out from the original. The fact that only 3 places you're showing me have it leads me to believe that some people are WANTING it to be there because it furthers their thinking rather than whats actually there originally.


You STILL haven't provided much of a reason to even believe those sources from before. They sounds more exaggerated and something more modern that someone made to further their own agenda. Like i said, without some serious scrutiny on anything you're saying, I'm calling false.
 
C

Cup-of-Ruin

Guest
Hey, no need to get snarky. i read from a post where you said 2 so i went with 2. 3 versions as oppsoed to how many others? There had to be a REASON why someone would leave those things out. They were either concocted later on or taken out from the original. The fact that only 3 places you're showing me have it leads me to believe that some people are WANTING it to be there because it furthers their thinking rather than whats actually there originally.
Mate, I just gave you the word definition, it does not translate 'beauty' it translates 'appearence', did you read that post, you might have not understood it, just go back and read it again, otherwise don't worry arguing about something you have no clue about, I can you 4, 5, 6,correct translation from Biblical scholars who have entire Bibles accredited to their names, and apart from that I even gave you the correct transliterations into English so you could understand, how many do you want? does it make any difference?


You STILL haven't provided much of a reason to even believe those sources from before. They sounds more exaggerated and something more modern that someone made to further their own agenda. Like i said, without some serious scrutiny on anything you're saying, I'm calling false.
Then don't believe it, it's up to you, if you want to be obtuse, I cannot help you, the evidence is there as I gave it. It stands as it is.
 

Arel

Banned
Sep 25, 2009
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How dare you all doubt the Word of the L-rd that doth come from Cup's lips? He is a prophet, holy and righteous! The ruin of the world is coming by the Wrath of G-d, as the prophet Cup doth saith!


:D
 
Sep 27, 2009
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kakashi-

NOW you're getting it. This is ALL just furthering an agenda. That's all it is. He's not getting any message from G-d. He just wants to see a race war, and this is all just furthering that agenda. Jesus Himself could come down and tell him he was wrong, and it wouldn't matter. Because in reality, this all has nothing to do with religion. It has to do with hate. Why he is allowed to stay here and spread his message of hate I have no idea.

But his message is not from G-d. Of this much I am certain.
 

Kakashi

Senior Member
Jan 3, 2007
626
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Mate, I just gave you the word definition, it does not translate 'beauty' it translates 'appearence', did you read that post, you might have not understood it, just go back and read it again, otherwise don't worry arguing about something you have no clue about, I can you 4, 5, 6,correct translation from Biblical scholars who have entire Bibles accredited to their names, and apart from that I even gave you the correct transliterations into English so you could understand, how many do you want? does it make any difference?




Then don't believe it, it's up to you, if you want to be obtuse, I cannot help you, the evidence is there as I gave it. It stands as it is.
This entire thread has been pretty obtuse. America is going down and you won't explain how it's going to happen? That's very definition of obtuse.

Obviously you have an agenda you're pushing, have a good day bro.
 
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Kakashi

Senior Member
Jan 3, 2007
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As an aside, when i posted that ^^, i thought " I'm obtuse? You're obtuse! This whole court is obtuse!" and laughed. Just thought I'd share lol.
 
C

Cup-of-Ruin

Guest
This entire thread has been pretty obtuse. America is going down and you won't explain how it's going to happen? That's very definition of obtuse.

Obviously you have an agenda you're pushing, have a good day bro.
As I said, first will be a currency collapse, it will lead to a hyperinflation scenario, basically America will not be able to trade Federal Reserve Notes for anything tangible, like they have been doing for fifty years or so, that's why your debt is measured in trillions. You probably don't know much about history when Fiat currencies collapse, but the results are devastating. This is already happening and will continue, unemployment will rise and rise an rise, Banks will continue to go bust, mass homelessness, I think there has been aprox. 100 banks already this year closed down, expect alot more, food shortages obviously will lead to riot and political instability, enemies who are owed vast amounts of wealth by a crumbling America will see an opportunity and will take it. most likely the Governmant is already compliant with this, I believe the assualt will be stealth probably a poison as I mentioned earlier, biochemical weapon, micro-nukes could be used a false flag to declare martial law in the States.
 
A

alaska_mom

Guest
I'm not sure how to reply to Cup of Ruin's thread.....all I know is that the bible says the last days shall be "as in the days of Noah." This does not apply only to America...it is for the whole Earth. As we know, Noah built the Ark as God told him to, and the people who would listen were saved by going in the boat with all the animals as well. The flood over-powered the entire Earth! This was God's judgement and wrath poured out against all the evil that transpired upon the Earth. Now, God has promised never to flood the Earth again (and put the rainbow in the sky as a reminder for that promise)...so what will happen??? If it's as in the days of Noah, the whole planet will be destroyed with only a select few being saved from God's fury. This is a mystery to me...I'm just trying to mull it over out loud...
Maybe we need to read through Revelation again where all the viles are being poured out and the plagues are hitting the Earth...
Just a thought....is H1N1 Swine Flu one of these plagues??? I don't know!
I would be interested in hearing more about other peoples views about the end times.
 
C

CarrierOfChrist

Guest
Questions for Cup:

Is it only America that should prepare or the entire world?

Will judgment just be for the United States or everyone?

Since the USD has such a far reach, shouldn't you be warning everyone about this?

It seems like you're only warning the US with the topic of the thread. Seems a bit unfair to give us such an advantage; people from other countries might see the topic and consider it for the US only and irrelevant to their own nation. That is, of course, unless you're not actually warning us and only trying to put a spirit of fear on us; and who can tell us exactly where that sort of fear comes from? Anyone?
 
A

Ancilla

Guest
and what exactly makes america so much worse than the rest of the world?.... if Gods wrath is comming to america, I'd better prepare too, cause norway is a real wannabe- USA country ....
Weapons of mass destruction. That's what.

But I don't think that's what Cup-of-Ruin is talking about. Christians in America who are concern about America's capacity to kill are definitely a minority. I think the current economic crisis is the consequence of Americans being greedy and living beyond their means. Not that Canadians don't do that too, even though it's to a lesser degree. But I think what Cup-of-Ruin is actually doing is 400 year old American tradition called Jeremiad, where someone laments about how America has fallen short of the original "city on a hill" vision. The last person on this forum that I called a Jeremiad blamed God's judgement on homosexuals and women who get abortions. This disturbs me. It's always dangerous to blame the bringing down of a country on a small minority that one is not a part of. That's what Nazi Germany did. Since they were Calvinist they believed that one is totally evil without Jesus. Since the Jews don't have Jesus, the Germans thought they must be totally evil and therefore responsible for the sorry state of the country. What bothers me about current Jeremiads is that they don't acknowledge the improvements America has made in racism. If God didn't bring down His judgement during Jim Crowe, why would He start now? Do they believe that homosexuals getting spousal benefits angers God more than African Americans being lynched? See, this I think this is why so many altruistic minded people in America avoid Christianity, believing it's just a way to legitimize bigotry. I can only pray that Cup-of-Ruin and other Jeremiads keep those belifs hidden from non-Christians, lest they be turned off Jesus forever.
 
C

CarrierOfChrist

Guest
Weapons of mass destruction. That's what.

But I don't think that's what Cup-of-Ruin is talking about. Christians in America who are concern about America's capacity to kill are definitely a minority. I think the current economic crisis is the consequence of Americans being greedy and living beyond their means. Not that Canadians don't do that too, even though it's to a lesser degree. But I think what Cup-of-Ruin is actually doing is 400 year old American tradition called Jeremiad, where someone laments about how America has fallen short of the original "city on a hill" vision. The last person on this forum that I called a Jeremiad blamed God's judgement on homosexuals and women who get abortions. This disturbs me. It's always dangerous to blame the bringing down of a country on a small minority that one is not a part of. That's what Nazi Germany did. Since they were Calvinist they believed that one is totally evil without Jesus. Since the Jews don't have Jesus, the Germans thought they must be totally evil and therefore responsible for the sorry state of the country. What bothers me about current Jeremiads is that they don't acknowledge the improvements America has made in racism. If God didn't bring down His judgement during Jim Crowe, why would He start now? Do they believe that homosexuals getting spousal benefits angers God more than African Americans being lynched? See, this I think this is why so many altruistic minded people in America avoid Christianity, believing it's just a way to legitimize bigotry. I can only pray that Cup-of-Ruin and other Jeremiads keep those belifs hidden from non-Christians, lest they be turned off Jesus forever.
Cup-of-Ruin isn't an American. America isn't the only country with weapons of mass destruction. Our weapons of mass destruction's current job is as a deterrent for other countries with them and those trying to acquire them, and really nothing more. As a matter of fact, talks between the US and Russia have been going on, talking about getting rid of almost all of them.

The thing is, the world expects more from the United States than, say, Pakistan or any other country in the middle-east. They ignore the injustices and abuses going on in those countries, because they expect it. However, when the United States falls short in their own eyes, we're all of a sudden a Great Whore.

What country doesn't fall short? Where's the scale that measures how far gone a country is from Christianity? What earthly being decides what sinful nature is worse than another, and will eventually cause a country to be condemned? Is anyone with a foot on this earth right to judge such a thing, or even speculate for that matter? Because that's all this is, is blind speculation and hatred against a country that is an easy target.
 
B

broken

Guest
IF you believe that God is about to Judge America. If you believe that America is the next Rome. What are YOU doing about the lost in America?
 
J

Jezreel

Guest
I don't understand why when people quote the word of God of how Jesus was murdered and killed by his own, "he came unto his own but his own received him not", that we are being anti semitic because the Pharisses and Saducees, the Jewish religeous hierarchy were constantly plotting and planning some way to kill Jesus because they hated him because their father was Satan and he was a murderer from the beginning and when he tells a lie, he speaks of his own because he is the father of lies. I was kicked out of a bunny rabbit group and accused of being anti semtic because the subject come up and they also asked me what I thought of Islam and I told them the truth and they got so angry at me that they twisted what I said and accused me of being anti semitic and kicked me out of the group! They should not have asked me! I was not going to take their bait of my being afraid of them and changing my views just to fit into the crowd and be accepted.
I am also very sick and tired of people from other countries in their hatred of the United States when we have helped out those very people. My father met my mother in Brisbane Australia during the 2nd world war. My grandmother did laundry for the soldiers and when my father would come and pick up his laundry, that is how he met my mother. They were chaperoned by her parents for two years until they were engaged and even then, they were not left alone and waited until their wedding day. Both my parents were virgins. If our soldiers had not have be deployed to Australia, I may have turned out to be Asian instead of American. Australia would have been invaded by Japan. Great Britain could not even take good care of themselves much less help out Australia. To this day I don't understand why Australia is still in the commonwealth and is under the monarchy and rule of England. It used to disgust me when they would critizize the US but use us to take care of them and defend them. Today, many of the young Australians do not know the history of how important the United States was for Australia. If not for the United States, Australia would have been bombed and women raped and citizens killed and destroyed. The British did not help them.
Anyhow, sorry for gettin' into a kind of history thingy here. Multitudes are jealous of the United States. We are still the best country in the world despite the fact that the NWO is trying to destroy us and put in a communist type of government. We truly need to pray that God would even use the unbelievers in our country to speak out and that God would use them to bring to light what is happening by the media using fear tactics to get us to lay down and die and be the same as what happened to the Jews when Hitler was in power. It could happen here you know.
 
Sep 27, 2009
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FIRST off, if you have that much to say, can you please break it up into paragraphs ? Some of us find it very hard to read that much text on a computer screen, especially when it's as dense as the above post is.

It will help your point to be read, if you will break up and separate the thoughts, by liberal use of the Enter key.

As to your actual point, had you been following the thread, YES, there most certainly HAVE been charges of anti-semitism thrown around, WHICH, btw, is neither a minor charge, nor one that I am prone to use lightly. BUT these accusations have NOTHING TO DO with what you're talking about.

Unfortunately, the things you mention are so common that though we may disagree, we consider them to be merely one facet of Christian belief. Of course, these are the Christians furthest from where I am, as a Messianic, with brethren just over the border as "Hebrew Roots Christians."

But it really doesn't matter how many times you might point out to some people that Messiah WAS killed by crucifiction (Roman method of execution) not stoning (Israelite method of execution). There have always, and will always be those motivated by their own personal biases, rather than a true desire to serve G-d, and such people will unfortunately always find homes in the fringes of organized religion.

But since you DID ask, before proceeding to explain (again) why Cup of Ruin is an anti-semite, I will go ahead and briefly explain why these more minors issues, which we accept as the dark side of Chrsitiandom, ARE nonetheless, anti-semitic (albeit mildly so).

The story of Yeshua is a Jewish story of a Jewish man, and His Jewish friends, surrounded by Jewish followers, in a Jewish land. From top to bottom, and inside out, the entire story is thoroughly Jewish.

So while SOME people may read an awful lot into the fact that SOME Jews hated Him, and wanted to see Him killed, the freer thinking people recognize that the people supporting Him were JUST as Jewish as those opposing Him. The 12 apostles? Jewish. The 5000 He fed? Jewish. The hundreds He healed? Jewish.

One simply expects to find the majority of the main characters all the way around WOULD be Jewish, given the context and locale of the story. It doesn't mean "The Jews killed Jesus" or that "The Jews hated Him" or "The Jews rejected Him" far from it! If we took all His Jewish supporters out of the stories, and out of history, who WOULD have carried His message to the world?! NO ONE! Because He repeatedly SENT His apostles out TO the people of Israel!

So there you have it. This "Da J00s killed Jesus" stuff is total crap, of course. But it is prevalent enough in Christian culture, we try not to simply "write off" those that believe them, and instead endeavor to educate them, as I just have, and show them that the worldview which leads to these biases are definitively incomplete.

On the other hand, there are much bolder and more brazen forms of anti-semitism, such as that displayed by Cup of Ruin. He has repeatedly claimed that just calling someone a Jew is, and was, an insult. He claims Yeshua wasn't really Jewish, despite the clear scriptural indicators that not only WAS He Jewish, but that He HAD to be Jewish, in order to fulfill the prophecies and BE the Messiah.

He further claims that ALL those claiming to be Jewish today, and presumably all of Israel as well, since Right of Return IS automatically granted to those who can prove that they are Jewish, are really imposters... but more than that, not ONLY imposters, but actually agents of the Accuser, the Adversary.

He does not read as we do, that the first couple of chapters of Revelations are written as letters to the fledgling churches, meant to encourage them. He doesn't compare this letter to Smyrna that he loves to quote, against the letter to, say, the Ephesians, and conclude that these enemies are (or were) COMMON enemies, and actually are those who dwell among US believers in Messiah, but wants to write off an entire race, and religion, and quite possibly an entire nation-state as agents of evil.

But see, we don't really know. He won't disclose his full position. He won't go into details about these beliefs, and he refuses to even mention what sort of "final solution" should be employed to deal with his alleged "Jewish problem." And while it's entirely possible that some may give the benefit of the doubt, when someone intentionally keeps their mouth shut this way, I do not. I fear the worst, because I know this theology all too well. I know its origins, and I know its ends.

This IS the height of anti-semitism. It is this very same sentiment that swept across Europe in the 40s and led to the wholesale massacre of millions of innocent people, not JUST Jews, but also Catholics, communists, unionists, gays....

You see, when it comes to bigotry, Jews are sort of the "canary in the mine." History shows us time and time again, if you want to know how tolerant a society is, of cultural differences, you need look no further than how they treat the Jews. Any group that hates ANY group, also hates the Jews. White supremacists, black supremacists, nazis, communists like Stalin, Catholics, Spaniards, Dutch... It's a theme echoed on every page of human history.

Whoever makes themselves the enemies of the Jews, or of Israel, makes themselves the enemies of her G-d, and His people (Gen 12:2-3).
 
C

Cup-of-Ruin

Guest
FIRST off, if you have that much to say, can you please break it up into paragraphs ? Some of us find it very hard to read that much text on a computer screen, especially when it's as dense as the above post is.

It will help your point to be read, if you will break up and separate the thoughts, by liberal use of the Enter key.

As to your actual point, had you been following the thread, YES, there most certainly HAVE been charges of anti-semitism thrown around, WHICH, btw, is neither a minor charge, nor one that I am prone to use lightly. BUT these accusations have NOTHING TO DO with what you're talking about.

Unfortunately, the things you mention are so common that though we may disagree, we consider them to be merely one facet of Christian belief. Of course, these are the Christians furthest from where I am, as a Messianic, with brethren just over the border as "Hebrew Roots Christians."

But it really doesn't matter how many times you might point out to some people that Messiah WAS killed by crucifiction (Roman method of execution) not stoning (Israelite method of execution). There have always, and will always be those motivated by their own personal biases, rather than a true desire to serve G-d, and such people will unfortunately always find homes in the fringes of organized religion.

But since you DID ask, before proceeding to explain (again) why Cup of Ruin is an anti-semite, I will go ahead and briefly explain why these more minors issues, which we accept as the dark side of Chrsitiandom, ARE nonetheless, anti-semitic (albeit mildly so).

The story of Yeshua is a Jewish story of a Jewish man, and His Jewish friends, surrounded by Jewish followers, in a Jewish land. From top to bottom, and inside out, the entire story is thoroughly Jewish.

So while SOME people may read an awful lot into the fact that SOME Jews hated Him, and wanted to see Him killed, the freer thinking people recognize that the people supporting Him were JUST as Jewish as those opposing Him. The 12 apostles? Jewish. The 5000 He fed? Jewish. The hundreds He healed? Jewish.

One simply expects to find the majority of the main characters all the way around WOULD be Jewish, given the context and locale of the story. It doesn't mean "The Jews killed Jesus" or that "The Jews hated Him" or "The Jews rejected Him" far from it! If we took all His Jewish supporters out of the stories, and out of history, who WOULD have carried His message to the world?! NO ONE! Because He repeatedly SENT His apostles out TO the people of Israel!

So there you have it. This "Da J00s killed Jesus" stuff is total crap, of course. But it is prevalent enough in Christian culture, we try not to simply "write off" those that believe them, and instead endeavor to educate them, as I just have, and show them that the worldview which leads to these biases are definitively incomplete.

On the other hand, there are much bolder and more brazen forms of anti-semitism, such as that displayed by Cup of Ruin. He has repeatedly claimed that just calling someone a Jew is, and was, an insult. He claims Yeshua wasn't really Jewish, despite the clear scriptural indicators that not only WAS He Jewish, but that He HAD to be Jewish, in order to fulfill the prophecies and BE the Messiah.

He further claims that ALL those claiming to be Jewish today, and presumably all of Israel as well, since Right of Return IS automatically granted to those who can prove that they are Jewish, are really imposters... but more than that, not ONLY imposters, but actually agents of the Accuser, the Adversary.

He does not read as we do, that the first couple of chapters of Revelations are written as letters to the fledgling churches, meant to encourage them. He doesn't compare this letter to Smyrna that he loves to quote, against the letter to, say, the Ephesians, and conclude that these enemies are (or were) COMMON enemies, and actually are those who dwell among US believers in Messiah, but wants to write off an entire race, and religion, and quite possibly an entire nation-state as agents of evil.

But see, we don't really know. He won't disclose his full position. He won't go into details about these beliefs, and he refuses to even mention what sort of "final solution" should be employed to deal with his alleged "Jewish problem." And while it's entirely possible that some may give the benefit of the doubt, when someone intentionally keeps their mouth shut this way, I do not. I fear the worst, because I know this theology all too well. I know its origins, and I know its ends.

This IS the height of anti-semitism. It is this very same sentiment that swept across Europe in the 40s and led to the wholesale massacre of millions of innocent people, not JUST Jews, but also Catholics, communists, unionists, gays....

You see, when it comes to bigotry, Jews are sort of the "canary in the mine." History shows us time and time again, if you want to know how tolerant a society is, of cultural differences, you need look no further than how they treat the Jews. Any group that hates ANY group, also hates the Jews. White supremacists, black supremacists, nazis, communists like Stalin, Catholics, Spaniards, Dutch... It's a theme echoed on every page of human history.

Whoever makes themselves the enemies of the Jews, or of Israel, makes themselves the enemies of her G-d, and His people (Gen 12:2-3).
A brief History of the Terms for Jew - 1980 Jewish Almanac;

"STRICTLY SPEAKING IT IS INCORRECT TO CALL AN ANCIENT ISRAELITE A 'JEW' OR TO CALL A CONTEMPORARY JEW AN ISRAELITE OR A HEBREW." (1980 Jewish Almanac, p. 3)

The Jewish Encyclopedia -

"Khazars, A NON-SEMITIC, Asiatic, Mongolian tribal nation who emigrated into Eastern Europe about the first century AD who were converted as an entire nation to Judaism in the seventh century by expanding Russian nation which absorbed the entire Khazar population, and who account for the presence in Eastern Europe of the great numbers of Yiddish-speaking Jews in Russia, Poland, Lithuania, Galatia, Besserbia and Rumania."

The Universal Jewish Encyclopedia -

The primary meaning of Ashkenazim in Hebrew is German and Germans. This may be due to the fact that the home of ancient ancestors of the Germans was Media, which is the Biblical Ashkenaz...Krauss is of the opinion that in the early medieval ages the Khazars, were sometimes referred to as Ashkenazim...ABOUT 92% OF ALL JEWS OR APPROXIMATELY 14,500,000 ARE ASHKENAZIM."

The Bible - Relates that Khazar (Ashkenaz) Jews were/are the sons of Japheth not Shem:

"NOW these are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth: unto them were born sons after the flood. The sons of Japheth;...the sons of Gomer; ASHKENAZ..." (Genesis 10:1-3)

Therefore proving that at least 92% of todays Jews are Ashkenaz Jews (Khazars) and are not descended from Shem, or Eber or Isaac or Jacob/Israel and cannot be Israelites or even considered to be Semite.
 
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