Justification has not come about because of anything believers are capable of achieving on their own

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Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
10,993
2,134
113
#81
I have reasons to believe the Bible is for the purpose to take us someplace. And then we graduate and and don't have much need to read it again. We graduate from grade school, high school, and collage. I noticed not to many graduate from reading the Bible.

I would disagree strongly. The word of God is complex and deep. The more you read it, the more you grow. People who don't read it, don't grow! Whether you have been a Christian for 4 months or 40 years.

I'm very sorry you don't understand that. Most days, God illuminates some verses or passages to me, and shows me some exciting and new. And I'm sorry you think you don't have to rely on the Bible. That is a lie from right out of hell!
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
10,993
2,134
113
#82
John is talking to those who are either not saved yet or not walking by the spirit yet. He's not talking to those in Christ.

Wrong! If you actually read the Bible, you would know John in his epistle was Addressing Christians! Here's the verses preceding Nehemiah's verses!

"This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin." 1 John 1:5-7

His 2nd and 3rd epistles clearly lay out that he is talking to Christians in churches! He addresses " the elder" In the first line of both.

See how you have messed up not reading the Bible? You are clueless about the message, the details, which means you can't be following God.

If you got bored with the Bible are you really a Christian at all?

"They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us." 1 John 2:19

Nothing worse than a know-it-all who can't even remember what the Bible says, from his neglect of Study of he Word. God teaches me daily. He used it to transform me.

"Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will." Romans 12:2

How do you renew your mind, without reading the Bible? You can't!

And the word for "be transformed is μεταμορφοῦσθε or metamorphousthe. It is a verb that is imperative passive. It means God commands us to let him transform our minds through the Word. It is also called the "divine passive." You are directly disobeying a NT command of God by not reading the Bible.

And of course:

"Every scripture is inspired by God and useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the person dedicated to God may be capable. and equipped for every good work." 2 Tim 3:16-17

You must not be dedicated to God!!
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
10,993
2,134
113
#83
Did Jeremiah continue to eat the same words over and over? He would probably starve if he had to keep trying to eat the same food over and over.
Completely out of context use of that verse. If you ever decide to read the Bible again, take a course in hermeneutics. You are clueless about Bible interpretation, and how to apply verses!
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
10,993
2,134
113
#85
I graduated. Why repeat the same grade over? We do that when people fail.
We do not graduate from the sanctification process till we die or Christ returns. That is called glorification.

1. Justification Romans 5:1
2. Sanctification John 17:17
3. Glorification Romans 8:30

Sanctification means to be "set apart" or be holy. But as Chester said, our flesh will not be sanctified till the end. So yes, we fail every day! But we also learn and grow.

Your theology is very poor. I guess that's what you get for abandoning the Bible, and probably church.
 
Nov 17, 2019
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New Mexico, USA
#86
I agree with the premise of your entire post.

However, I get frustrated with the notion that since we cannot do anything apart from God, we should just do nothing at all.

I'm not implying that you are making that case, but I see that excuse being tossed around all the time.

I liken it to being face down in a church parking lot with a knife in my back, bleeding profusely. The church congregants (along with the pastor) circle around me and tell me to hang in there and that they'll pray for me at the next prayer meeting.

I couldn't hope to get a ride to the hospital. After all, we wouldn't want to get the new church van God provided dirty, now would we?
 

Peterlag

Active member
Jun 15, 2020
299
50
28
#87
We do not graduate from the sanctification process till we die or Christ returns. That is called glorification.

1. Justification Romans 5:1
2. Sanctification John 17:17
3. Glorification Romans 8:30

Sanctification means to be "set apart" or be holy. But as Chester said, our flesh will not be sanctified till the end. So yes, we fail every day! But we also learn and grow.

Your theology is very poor. I guess that's what you get for abandoning the Bible, and probably church.
Ever leaning and never able to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
 

Peterlag

Active member
Jun 15, 2020
299
50
28
#89
Completely out of context use of that verse. If you ever decide to read the Bible again, take a course in hermeneutics. You are clueless about Bible interpretation, and how to apply verses!
It's not that difficult. He made it simple.
 
Oct 25, 2018
2,377
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#90
I would disagree strongly. The word of God is complex and deep. The more you read it, the more you grow. People who don't read it, don't grow! Whether you have been a Christian for 4 months or 40 years.

I'm very sorry you don't understand that. Most days, God illuminates some verses or passages to me, and shows me some exciting and new. And I'm sorry you think you don't have to rely on the Bible. That is a lie from right out of hell!
Why is this guy allowed on here with such a low view of the word of God?
 

Peterlag

Active member
Jun 15, 2020
299
50
28
#91
Wrong! If you actually read the Bible, you would know John in his epistle was Addressing Christians! Here's the verses preceding Nehemiah's verses!

"This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin." 1 John 1:5-7

His 2nd and 3rd epistles clearly lay out that he is talking to Christians in churches! He addresses " the elder" In the first line of both.

See how you have messed up not reading the Bible? You are clueless about the message, the details, which means you can't be following God.

If you got bored with the Bible are you really a Christian at all?

"They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us." 1 John 2:19

Nothing worse than a know-it-all who can't even remember what the Bible says, from his neglect of Study of he Word. God teaches me daily. He used it to transform me.

"Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will." Romans 12:2

How do you renew your mind, without reading the Bible? You can't!

And the word for "be transformed is μεταμορφοῦσθε or metamorphousthe. It is a verb that is imperative passive. It means God commands us to let him transform our minds through the Word. It is also called the "divine passive." You are directly disobeying a NT command of God by not reading the Bible.

And of course:

"Every scripture is inspired by God and useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the person dedicated to God may be capable. and equipped for every good work." 2 Tim 3:16-17

You must not be dedicated to God!!
I see this 1 John chapter 1 and 2 as we are either walking in our old dead nature if we are into sin. Or we are walking in the spirit if we are not into sin.

Chapter 1
6 "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:"
6. Not in him because we are either not saved or have not put on the new man.

7 "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."
7. In him because we are saved and have put on the new man.

8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."
8. Not in him because we are either not saved or have not put on the new man.

9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
9. In him because we are saved and have put on the new man.

10 "If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."
10. Not in him because we are either not saved or have not put on the new man.

Chapter 2
1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:"
1. Not in him because we are either not saved or have not put on the new man.

2 "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."
2. Not in him because we are either not saved or have not put on the new man.

3 "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments."
3. In him because we are saved and have put on the new man.

4 "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."
4. Not in him because we are either not saved or have not put on the new man.

5 "But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him."
5. In him because we are saved and have put on the new man.

6 "He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked."
6. In him because we are saved and have put on the new man.

The last verse I'm going to mention has "in him" again. From 1 John we read "that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin." We cannot sin in him because there's no sin in him and this is why "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."
 
Oct 25, 2018
2,377
1,191
113
#92
I have reasons to believe the Bible is for the purpose to take us someplace. And then we graduate and and don't have much need to read it again. We graduate from grade school, high school, and collage. I noticed not to many graduate from reading the Bible.
Wow! What a low view of the word of God. God cannot be contained in just 66 books. But, that is what He has graciously given us to reveal Himself to us. No way can our finite minds grasp all the bible entails. There is no graduating from the bible.
 

Peterlag

Active member
Jun 15, 2020
299
50
28
#94
I would disagree strongly. The word of God is complex and deep. The more you read it, the more you grow. People who don't read it, don't grow! Whether you have been a Christian for 4 months or 40 years.

I'm very sorry you don't understand that. Most days, God illuminates some verses or passages to me, and shows me some exciting and new. And I'm sorry you think you don't have to rely on the Bible. That is a lie from right out of hell!
It's not complexed. It's so simple a child could understand it. You have to be an adult to make it complicated.
 

Peterlag

Active member
Jun 15, 2020
299
50
28
#95
We continue to read the Bible because it is profitable for understanding, correction and training in righteousness. We have not yet attained the level where we needn’t be corrected, learn anything or are completely correct in our behavior.
I must have tapped into something because I don't have those problems.
 

Peterlag

Active member
Jun 15, 2020
299
50
28
#97
This site has over 100,000 members so unless you actually know each members view on this point you cannot claim conclusively that you and one other person are the only members on this site that agree with this point. Blanket statements painted with a broad brush are generally not well received in this forum.
It was a statement I made to one person off the cuff because someone that same hour told me nobody on this site agrees with me.
 

Peterlag

Active member
Jun 15, 2020
299
50
28
#98
And again you have not been here that long, so many people have come here in the past preaching the same thing and just because you have not met anyone like that doesn't mean they aren't there.
I believe we are a new creation and yes in his eyes we are sinless and have no sin but you cannot also say that you do not have flesh and do not sin because no matter how strong we are we are not in the spirit 24/7 we will stumble we will fall we will be distracted by things in life that is part of being human.

Something I have noticed is that we are a unique creation by God, there are angels and demons both are either good or bad there is no inbetween but humans have both light and darkness even our eyes see this way if it is to dark we are blind and cannot see anything we need a light to see the way but if it is to bright we are also blinded because the human eye was not meant to see that way if we were in God's full presence and glory we would be blinded and overwhelmed if we are in the darkness of evil we also are blind and head to the gates of hades.

We struggle with sin even as new creations for a purpose, we battle light and darkness from both sides evil and good God and the devil because we are the vessels they both can only influence not force and we are inperfect as humans ( not in Christ) to show our need for him and his grace and salvation.

You say you have not met anyone else in the world who thinks like you do yet is faith not believing in the unseen? if so then you should not say this just because you have not met them
It says cannot sin. It does not say sometimes sin because we fall short. It says cannot.
 

Peterlag

Active member
Jun 15, 2020
299
50
28
#99
You make a lot of sweeping remarks and I just don't get it.

In the OP you say "And yet most of us believe by way of our actions that we somehow need to find a way within our own thinking on how to justify ourselves".

Even if this was true, how do you know what "Most believers think"?

Then in this comment you say "You're the only one on this site along with me that believes the following." then I assume you go on to mean "We cannot make ourselves become alive, because we are dead in our sins".

I believe this whole heartily, and not only that, but even the repentance that leads to salvation is a gift lest any man boast. That aside I know others on here that also believe this. Why do you think this way? Have you asked everybody what they believe in order to say things like this? I don't care, it's not a big thing, it made me curious enough to ask.
It was off the cuff. I bit of dry humor.
 

Blain

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
16,075
1,238
113
It says cannot sin. It does not say sometimes sin because we fall short. It says cannot.
Yes but it is not speaking in literal terms, it is an attitude the born again believer does not live in sin and seek it they have his seed and thus seek to please and honor God and seek holiness . The reason so many new believers fear and worry about their sins is because they have that seed and don't want to sin if they were not born again they would have no problem sinning
But also remember a few pages later it says this If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us. (1 John 1:8-10; NIV).
So by claiming to not sin and be without sin you are by doing so sinning.