Keep His Commandments

[CRUCIFIEDWITHCHRIST]

Hi CRUCIFIEDWITHCHRIST

Christians cannot sin, as 1John 3:6-9 confirms. But we differ in understanding this.

You see this as perfect obedience to the law/commandments in this our physical life. To fail, in this physical life, to perfectly obey the law/commandments is "sin", resulting in such people being lost. This is the doctrine you follow.
And when I ask you if you have perfectly kept the commandments since the day you received Christ you do not answer.

But, what I am saying is that in Christ our position is one of being holy, righteous and without sin. It's not determined by our physical behavior.

Under the doctrine you follow "works" is keeping the law/commandments perfectly in this physical life.

But for a Christian, "works" is believing in Jesus, John 6:29

Under the doctrine you follow "fruit" is keeping the law/commandments perfectly in this physical life.

But for a Christian our fruit is Christ in us, the firstfruits (1Cor 15:20) that makes us holy (Rom 11:16)

The thief on the cross did not have that perfect obedience to the law/commandments that you demand we have in this physical life.
The thief on the cross contradicts the gospel you follow.

Brother we have to walk in the light as he is in the light. When a person is a person is saved their old man is put to death. Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil. Take Jesus for example... Jesus was not trying real hard not to sin it was just in his nature. What defiles a man comes from within and that is exactly what did and does for us having our old man put to death. When this happpens the man is in the kingdom, he has entered the rest of God. The devil cannot touch him. Jesus prayed that we would be kept from all the evil and to be one even as the father and the son are one.
If a person has come to the place where they are one with the father and the son being kept from all the evil , will this person sin ? will the evil get them? no brother! not at all . yes it is nothing short of a miracle. If a person is still having evil in their life its not that they are one with the father and son and the devil is getting them .. its because they have not come to the place where they are one.I dont have on my heart to answer regarding myself because it stirs up conflict, i dont mean to offend you because i dont answer it .

Brother regarding the thief on the cross i want to say that situation is a little different from how things are now. Jesus had not died yet not allowing anyone to have the holy spirit in dwell in them with the power. He repented of his sin and he was clean.
Brother we as christians cannot make any provision for the flesh.

The result of somone being saved is that perfect obedience to the law/commandments in this physical life. Jesus came to fulfil the law.

Why do you feel that this is wrong when we know that the kingdom of God is now and there is no sin in the kingdom??

If we are still sinning we still have a wretched old man that is causing it. when we are saved his deeds are gone. Why do you suggest a person can be saved and still have the deeds of the old man going on?

;isten to this verse..1 john 2:10

He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.

Brother would this person be keeping the commandments or not?[/SIZE]

 

[CRUCIFIEDWITHCHRIST]

brother the lord can keep us from all the evil.. if this is not going on in a person's life call upon the lord. he will keep us from all the evil.

 

[Grandpa]

Now let's read WHAT law was the schoolmaster;


Gal.3
[1] O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
[2] This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[3] Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Readers....in verse 2 above....what laws of God required works/deeds? Was it do not lie, steal or kill? No. The laws that required works/deeds were the laws of the Levites. And their work under the law was to kill animals....FLESH. And what does Paul ask in the next verse?
.

Following the 10 commandments takes a lot of work.
You need to go back and read Exodus 20 through Exodus 30 and see all the work that was required...

[3] Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Can the killing of animals...FLESH make them again perfect? Paul is speaking ONLY about the law of the Levites, that being their job of sacrifice. Let's continue....

Paul is speaking about YOUR flesh. YOUR flesh cannot make you perfect. YOUR flesh 'keeping' the 10 commandments does not make you perfect before God, ever.

[19] Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Now...what law of God was added because God's others laws kept being broken? The law of the Levites and their work/deeds of animal sacrifice.

Sacrificing of animals was not added. Abel sacrificed animals. Abraham sacrificed animals. If you read Exodus 20-Exodus 30 you will see they were already sacrificing animals in an effort to atone for their souls and appease God...

The 10 Commandments written on stone were added. They were added because the children of Israel transgressed against God. Before Exodus 20 there is no written record of what Gods Law is.

[23] But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

Now before faith came, which was Christ, they were kept under, or saved by the sacrificing of animals. And what happened when faith (Jesus Christ) came and shed His blood? Let's read...

[24] Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[25] But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

The Law is the 10 commandments. Sacrificing animals was FAITH for the OT Jews. They had faith that the blood of bulls and goats would atone for their sin.

The law is not of faith. Sacrificing animals was of faith...

If sacrificing animals were the schoolmaster then there should be a bunch of people sacrificing animals and some of them should be coming to Christ... Right???

But since the 10 commandments are the schoolmaster we know that they are eternally bringing people to Christ because the Law of God is eternal.

In other words, whatever is the schoolmaster to bring us to Christ, we should be able to see the schoolmaster in action because not everyone has come to Christ.

When Jesus shed His blood there was no need for the laws of the Levites. The laws of killing animals was no longer needed, for the ultimate sacrifice had been given. We are no longer under the schoolmaster of the law of the Levites. THAT"S the law that was added! THAT'S the law that was to keep them in faith until Jesus came! THAT'S the law that was the schoolmaster! And THAT'S the law that was nailed to His cross!

Common sense!

Common sense but not according to Knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. The Jews no longer sacrifice animals and they don't believe in Jesus.

The Law that was nailed to His Cross was the 10 Commandments and ALL the requirements for that law. It is Finished. But apparently only for those who come to Him.

You can't lay down your burdens before Him if you think the only thing the Lord saved you from was animal sacrifice. Apparently all that allows you to do is keep the law in your flesh. You don't need the Lord Jesus for that, the Jews do it today.

 

[loveme1]

Following the 10 commandments takes a lot of work.
You need to go back and read Exodus 20 through Exodus 30 and see all the work that was required...

[/COLOR][/SIZE]

Paul is speaking about YOUR flesh. YOUR flesh cannot make you perfect. YOUR flesh 'keeping' the 10 commandments does not make you perfect before God, ever.



Sacrificing of animals was not added. Abel sacrificed animals. Abraham sacrificed animals. If you read Exodus 20-Exodus 30 you will see they were already sacrificing animals in an effort to atone for their souls and appease God...

The 10 Commandments written on stone were added. They were added because the children of Israel transgressed against God. Before Exodus 20 there is no written record of what Gods Law is.




The Law is the 10 commandments. Sacrificing animals was FAITH for the OT Jews. They had faith that the blood of bulls and goats would atone for their sin.

The law is not of faith. Sacrificing animals was of faith...

If sacrificing animals were the schoolmaster then there should be a bunch of people sacrificing animals and some of them should be coming to Christ... Right???

But since the 10 commandments are the schoolmaster we know that they are eternally bringing people to Christ because the Law of God is eternal.

In other words, whatever is the schoolmaster to bring us to Christ, we should be able to see the schoolmaster in action because not everyone has come to Christ.


Common sense but not according to Knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. The Jews no longer sacrifice animals and they don't believe in Jesus.

The Law that was nailed to His Cross was the 10 Commandments and ALL the requirements for that law. It is Finished. But apparently only for those who come to Him.

You can't lay down your burdens before Him if you think the only thing the Lord saved you from was animal sacrifice. Apparently all that allows you to do is keep the law in your flesh. You don't need the Lord Jesus for that, the Jews do it today.

Best to read it all.

Matthew 22

34But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together. 35Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, 36Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38This is the first and great commandment. 39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Romans 8

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

12Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

18For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 20For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. 24For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? 25But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

26Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. 29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

31What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? 32He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? 33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. 34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. 35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

36As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

37Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. 38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[haz]

Brother we have to walk in the light as he is in the light. When a person is a person is saved their old man is put to death. Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil. Take Jesus for example... Jesus was not trying real hard not to sin it was just in his nature. What defiles a man comes from within and that is exactly what did and does for us having our old man put to death. When this happpens the man is in the kingdom, he has entered the rest of God. The devil cannot touch him. Jesus prayed that we would be kept from all the evil and to be one even as the father and the son are one.
If a person has come to the place where they are one with the father and the son being kept from all the evil , will this person sin ? will the evil get them? no brother! not at all . yes it is nothing short of a miracle. If a person is still having evil in their life its not that they are one with the father and son and the devil is getting them .. its because they have not come to the place where they are one.I dont have on my heart to answer regarding myself because it stirs up conflict, i dont mean to offend you because i dont answer it .

Brother regarding the thief on the cross i want to say that situation is a little different from how things are now. Jesus had not died yet not allowing anyone to have the holy spirit in dwell in them with the power. He repented of his sin and he was clean.
Brother we as christians cannot make any provision for the flesh.

The result of somone being saved is that perfect obedience to the law/commandments in this physical life. Jesus came to fulfil the law.

Why do you feel that this is wrong when we know that the kingdom of God is now and there is no sin in the kingdom??

If we are still sinning we still have a wretched old man that is causing it. when we are saved his deeds are gone. Why do you suggest a person can be saved and still have the deeds of the old man going on?

;isten to this verse..1 john 2:10

He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.

Brother would this person be keeping the commandments or not?[/SIZE]

We have a very different understanding of scriptures.
I have encountered others who follow the same church with it's error teachings that you follow. Likewise they also were reluctant to admit where they were at in their obedience to the law.
One who claimed to be perfect in obedience contradicted himself by his own abusive words.
And another few admitted to not being perfect in obedience yet. They claimed that by faith they would get there one day, in this physical life.

Sadly the error in this doctrine of the church you follow, is that you deny the work that Christ has done on the cross. You don't see yourself as cleansed/holy/righteous in Christ until you see the flesh proving the perfection.
This is unbelief in Jesus.

 

[CRUCIFIEDWITHCHRIST]

We have a very different understanding of scriptures.
I have encountered others who follow the same church with it's error teachings that you follow. Likewise they also were reluctant to admit where they were at in their obedience to the law.
One who claimed to be perfect in obedience contradicted himself by his own abusive words.
And another few admitted to not being perfect in obedience yet. They claimed that by faith they would get there one day, in this physical life.

Sadly the error in this doctrine of the church you follow, is that you deny the work that Christ has done on the cross. You don't see yourself as cleansed/holy/righteous in Christ until you see the flesh proving the perfection.
This is unbelief in Jesus.

Brother listen to this verse


2 Corinthians 7

7 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Can one have this verse done in their life with sin still manifesting from their life?

 

[haz]

2 Corinthians 7:1
Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Can one have this verse done in their life with sin still manifesting from their life?

But the very doctrine you follow from your church manifests sin in your life.
For example, note the quote of yours below

The result of somone being saved is that perfect obedience to the law/commandments in this physical life. Jesus came to fulfil the law.

[/SIZE]

You determine righteousness/salvation by "perfect obedience to the law/commandments in this physical life".

What you are in truth doing is putting yourself under the law. Now consider what Gal 2:18 says about this.
For if I build again the things which I destroyed (righteousness by works of the law), I make myself a transgressor (Sinner).

The doctrine you follow makes you a sinner.

A question for you.
I have discussed this with others from the church you follow and they have admitted (reluctantly) that they are not yet perfect in obedience. But they do believe that one day, in this life, they will attain this.

You likewise would be in the same position as they. After you received Christ you were not immediately perfect in obedience to the law/commandments.

I would ask, why not?

And as your quote above shows, you do not consider yourself saved until that perfect obedience to the law/commandments is attained.

 

[loveme1]

What is a person forgiven of through Faith in Yahshua the Messiah? sin.

What is sin?

 

[haz]

What is a person forgiven of through Faith in Yahshua the Messiah? sin.

What is sin?

Sin is transgression of the law, 1John 3:4

But Christians are not under the law for righteousness, Rom 8:2, Rom 10:4, Gal 5:18, 1Tim 1:9.
So how can they be charged with transgression of the law/sin?

Rom 8:33
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

 

[loveme1]

Romans 8

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

We are made New through Faith in Yahshua the Messiah to obey Yahvah God out of love and gratitude.

Hebrews 9

(read the whole thing)

14How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

How do we serve the living God?

 

[loveme1]

Hebrews 10

1For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. 2For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. 3But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. 4For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

6In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

7Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

8Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; 9Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 15Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

16This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

18Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

19Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; 21And having an high priest over the house of God; 22Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. 23Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised) 24And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: 25Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

32But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions; 33Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used. 34For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance. 35Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. 36For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

37For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.

38Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

39But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

 

[loveme1]

Revelation 14

And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. 2And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: 3And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. 4These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 5And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
6And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, 7Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

8And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

9And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. 12Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

13And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

14And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. 15And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. 16And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. 18And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe. 19And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs

My friends look what is written below the everlasting Gospel proclaim.

Go back and read the words of the Messiah.

He died for our sin and iniquity through him we can be born of the Holy Spirit that will lead us to worship in Spirit and Truth.

To be forgiven is to accept we lived against him so he will Bless us with the Holy Spirit to serve him.

Do we love our Yahvah God with all our heart, soul and mind if we do not Keep that which he says those that love him Keep?

Do we Love Yahshua the Messiah if we do not do adhere to His words?

Is our foundation built on good ground?

my friends i ask you to go back and read the Bible for yourselves and ask for the Truth to be revealed to you.

a line here and a line there will not paint the perfect picture intended.

i would if i could copy and paste the whole Bible, i do not ask you to believe me but to seek for yourselves the Truth.

 

[Grandpa]

Revelation 14





My friends look what is written below the everlasting Gospel proclaim.

Go back and read the words of the Messiah.

He died for our sin and iniquity through him we can be born of the Holy Spirit that will lead us to worship in Spirit and Truth.

To be forgiven is to accept we lived against him so he will Bless us with the Holy Spirit to serve him.

Do we love our Yahvah God with all our heart, soul and mind if we do not Keep that which he says those that love him Keep?

Do we Love Yahshua the Messiah if we do not do adhere to His words?

Is our foundation built on good ground?

my friends i ask you to go back and read the Bible for yourselves and ask for the Truth to be revealed to you.

a line here and a line there will not paint the perfect picture intended.

i would if i could copy and paste the whole Bible, i do not ask you to believe me but to seek for yourselves the Truth.

Romans 8:1-2
1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

What does this mean? How does a person not walk after the flesh?
What is the law of sin and death?

Hebrews 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

How is the law just a shadow of good things to come?

 

[Eccl12and13]

Hebrews 10:1[/B] For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

How is the law just a shadow of good things to come?

And WHICH law is Paul speaking of above? Let's read it again.....

Heb.10
[1] For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

The law.....can never with those SACRIFICES...!!!

Which of God's laws required SACRIFICES? The laws that were given to the Levites. Let's confirm....

[2] For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
[3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

Again.....what law is Paul speaking of? The set of laws that required sacrifices year to year. Let's continue...

[4] For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

And AGAIN...what is the law Paul is speaking of? The laws of sacrifice. But let's prove this even further.....

[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
[6] In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
[7] Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
[8] Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

How many times must we read over and over again that Paul is speaking ONLY about the laws of animal sacrifice?


The laws of animal sacrifice was the shadow of good things to come. Why? Because once faith, Christ, came..there would be no need to kill bulls and goats. The people would no longer bu under the law of animal sacrifice. There would no longer be a need for the schoolmaster; the laws of sacrifice.


So what about God's OTHER laws; Love God, Love your neighbor, Have faith.

These are LAWS that MUST be kept for salvation!


.

 

[Grandpa]

And WHICH law is Paul speaking of above? Let's read it again.....

Heb.10
[1] For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

The law.....can never with those SACRIFICES...!!!

Which of God's laws required SACRIFICES? The laws that were given to the Levites. Let's confirm....

[2] For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
[3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

Again.....what law is Paul speaking of? The set of laws that required sacrifices year to year. Let's continue...

[4] For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

And AGAIN...what is the law Paul is speaking of? The laws of sacrifice. But let's prove this even further.....

[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
[6] In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
[7] Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
[8] Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

How many times must we read over and over again that Paul is speaking ONLY about the laws of animal sacrifice?


The laws of animal sacrifice was the shadow of good things to come. Why? Because once faith, Christ, came..there would be no need to kill bulls and goats. The people would no longer bu under the law of animal sacrifice. There would no longer be a need for the schoolmaster; the laws of sacrifice.


So what about God's OTHER laws; Love God, Love your neighbor, Have faith.

These are LAWS that MUST be kept for salvation!


.

Whenever 'the' law is spoken of in the NT it means the big 10 and all that goes with it, otherwise it is spelled out which law it is speaking of such as faith, spirit etc... All meaning All. Not twisting it to mean some or maybe that one over there but not this one over here.

When Jesus said He came not to destroy the law, He meant All of it. Otherwise He would be lying wouldn't He? Because sacrificing animals has been destroyed, hasn't it???

Poor kids... This is why the Lord Jesus says you must come to me as a child. Because if You come to Him thinking that you have Wisdom of your own you are going to be very sad...

 

[CRUCIFIEDWITHCHRIST]

But the very doctrine you follow from your church manifests sin in your life.
For example, note the quote of yours below



You determine righteousness/salvation by "perfect obedience to the law/commandments in this physical life".

What you are in truth doing is putting yourself under the law. Now consider what Gal 2:18 says about this.
For if I build again the things which I destroyed (righteousness by works of the law), I make myself a transgressor (Sinner).

The doctrine you follow makes you a sinner.

A question for you.
I have discussed this with others from the church you follow and they have admitted (reluctantly) that they are not yet perfect in obedience. But they do believe that one day, in this life, they will attain this.

You likewise would be in the same position as they. After you received Christ you were not immediately perfect in obedience to the law/commandments.

I would ask, why not?

And as your quote above shows, you do not consider yourself saved until that perfect obedience to the law/commandments is attained.

I said the result of one being saved (by faith in God) is this, they will have this obedience and keeping the commandments.

Brother Haz if you do not agree with this statement do you agree with the opposite then? That someone saved will have disobedience and will not keep the commandments?

Im saying someone that is holy as he is holy, became that way only by God"s mercy and grace, he will bear good fruit not evil.

If a person is having the commandments being kept in their life by God they are not under the law because they are led by the spirit not fulfiling the flesh.Im telling you there is no sin in the kingdom but ever time i talk about perfection as the result of one being saved by grace through faith you are telling me those two do not go together..why brother is it not ok for someone to be perfect because of what Jesus had done? Brother people can be tempted to deny the keeping power of the lord.

If any one is wallking right it is because the fulness of God's grace has happened in that person's life and the result is they are holy because God made them that way.

He tells us to be cleansed of all filthiness of the FLESH AND SPIRIT. If someone is still manifesting sin this has not been done in their life.do you not agree with this????

We view the result of a holy man different. I say the will of God is being done in his life. Those commandments of the lord is his will. We receive the doing of the will of God in our lives by him working through us. This miracle by faith , so no man can boast.

Brother if you believe the lord can keep a person from all the evil .... saying that one will sin every now and thengoes directly agianst this and several other verses.

there is no Sin in the kingdom of God brother i tell you this with much love.. GOD CAN AND WILL KEEP SOMEONE FROM FALLING..IT IS THOSE WHO BELIEVE JESUS THAT RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE MYSTERY OF GODLINESS.

 

[CRUCIFIEDWITHCHRIST]

The people whom you are referring about have nothing to do with what has been done in my life . someone that is truly perfect will not fall to answer your question.

 

[Eccl12and13]

Whenever 'the' law is spoken of in the NT it means the big 10 and all that goes with it, otherwise it is spelled out which law it is speaking of such as faith, spirit etc... All meaning All. Not twisting it to mean some or maybe that one over there but not this one over here.

OK....if we do as you claim and take "the law" to mean the big 10...then please explain how the following is speaking about the big 10!


Heb.7
[11] If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
[12] For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.


What law is Paul speaking of above that HAD to be changed? What law HAD to be changed because the priesthood was changed? And what laws did the people receive from the Priesthood that were not already given to them by Moses?


.

 

[haz]

How do we serve the living God?

We serve God by obeying His will, which is to believe on Jesus (John 6:40). This is righteousness by faith, Rom 4:5
And without faith it's impossible to please God.
Heb 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

And the law is not of faith, Gal 3:12

You quoted Rom 8, highlighting several select verses. But note verse 9 which you did not highlight. It describes Christians as not being in the flesh, but in the Spirit instead.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

And Christians please God as described above. We walk by faith. We obey His will. We believe in Jesus.

 

[haz]

The people whom you are referring about have nothing to do with what has been done in my life . someone that is truly perfect will not fall to answer your question.

As I said, these others who follow the same church as you, claim they are not perfect yet. They still have not attained perfect obedience to the law. But they do believe they will do so in this physical life.
Another one of them did claim to be perfect but his abusiveness contradicted this.

It's interesting that the church you follow teaches it's followers not to discuss whether they have reached perfect obedience yet. Obviously it's to avoid questioning that could expose your doctrine to scriptural truth.

As for Christians, we cannot sin as our righteousness is in Christ, by faith.

But the church doctrine you follow manifests sin in your life as you determine righteousness by perfect obedience to the law, in this physical life. This is refusing to submit to the righteousness of God, Rom 10:3. It is rebellion.