Keep His Commandments

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DiscipleDave

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2012
3,095
69
48
#81
So, the acts of love we show towards God and others is an indication of a lively faith. An indication of a true faith being lead by the Spirit. Can you explain to us how one knows that his faith is lively? How does one know if they possess that relationship as a mental thought or as reality? That is, as a human being, how do we know that we are in a real relationship with God?
You will know when you are in a real relationship with God when you have LOVE one for another, for it is Him in you that can make that possible. If you do not have LOVE one for another then your relationship with Him in not right. Because if you hate even one person, a little bit of leaven will leaven the whole lump. A good tree only produces good fruits, if a person claims to be a good tree, a good Christian, yet they produce a bad fruit, how are they a good tree? The Holy Spirit will convict that person of his/her bad fruit for only so long, like the tree that produced no fruit was going to be destroyed, but the caretaker said let it remain one more year, let me try to do what i can. The Holy Ghost does the same, He will convict that person of his/her sins to try to make them produce good fruits and not any bad ones.

Brothers and Sisters, its all about the LOVE. The Kingdom of Heaven only desires to have inhabitants that love others, and not their own selves. So then when Jesus comes for His Church, He is going to take those who Truly have love one for another. If then there is a person who you do not love, fix it. If there is a person you can't forgive, you better find a way to forgive that person. If you have the means to help another, do so. The Kingdom of Heaven are looking for Kingdom people. Kingdom people LOVEs everyone regardless what those people do to them. With man, this is impossible to do, but with Jesus living inside of you, the power and LOVE of Jesus Christ can help you to do what man says is impossible.

Jude1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

He will help you, seek Him, pray for His help, talk with Christian brothers and sisters about you situation, then listen to their advise, try all that you can to overcome.

^i^
 
Dec 21, 2012
2,901
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#82
.Who will be the one that will blot names out of the book of life for not keeping His commandments; The Apostle John, or Jesus Christ? .
Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

On that word "not" is the Greek text for a double negative.

i.e. ou - ou 3756 and mh - me 3361; a double negative strengthening the denial; not at all:--any more, at all, by any (no) means, neither, never, no (at all), in no case (wise), nor ever, not (at all, in any wise). Compare mh ouk - me ouk

That means this verse below is true after all.

John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

There is no blotting out of a believer's name out of the book of life.

But they can lose that eternal glory that comes with our inheritance of being that vessel unto honour in His House in attending the Marriage Supper of the Lamb.

That is why God is addressing the churches in exhorting them to prepare themselves before the Bridegroom comes to judge His House.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#83
If men working at keeping the 10 commandments was all that was required to be perfect before God then nothing would have to change.


can i ride with you for awhile Gramps?;)
 

DiscipleDave

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2012
3,095
69
48
#84
Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

On that word "not" is the Greek text for a double negative.



That means this verse below is true after all.

John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

There is no blotting out of a believer's name out of the book of life.

But they can lose that eternal glory that comes with our inheritance of being that vessel unto honour in His House in attending the Marriage Supper of the Lamb.

That is why God is addressing the churches in exhorting them to prepare themselves before the Bridegroom comes to judge His House.
i am hearing you say above There is no blotting out of a believer's name out of the book of life.

Revelations 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.


Why would Jesus even make this statement if it were not possible to blot someone out of the Book of Life? Double negative! Seriously? that is what you are going to use to make void what the verse says?

Revelations 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.


Now i see the Word of God teaching that if a person takes away from the words of the book of this prophesy that God will take his part out of the Book of Life.

You use double negative to make void Revelation 3:5, i would like to see what excuses you will use to make voide these verses as well.

Exodus 32:32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin—; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. 33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book


This verse plainly teaches that Jesus can blot out someone from His Book.

Psalms 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.


So Jesus is able to take the Holy Spirit away from someone? Maybe because they are removed from the Book of Life.

Psalms 69:28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.

Psalms 109:13 Let his posterity be cut off; and in the generation following let their name be blotted out.

Duet 29:20 The LORD will not spare him, but then the anger of the LORD and his jealousy shall smoke against that man, and all the curses that are written in this book shall lie upon him, and the LORD shall blot out his name from under heaven.


No One needs to learn Greek and Hebrew in order to come to the Knowledge of the Truth. It is the Holy Spirit of God that reveals what is Truth and what is not Truth. learning Greek and Hebrew are for those who do not hear the Holy Spirit of God. i too learned Hebrew and Greek, and all of it is but dung compared to what the Holy Ghost has told me. Nobody needs to go to the Hebrew or Greek to gain understanding. it is the Holy Spirit of God that gives understanding to whom He will give it.

^i^
 
Dec 21, 2012
2,901
39
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#85
i am hearing you say above There is no blotting out of a believer's name out of the book of life.

Revelations 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Why would Jesus even make this statement if it were not possible to blot someone out of the Book of Life? Double negative! Seriously? that is what you are going to use to make void what the verse says?
You missed out the part about the double negative. The Greek term which "not" was derived from, was declaring that would never happen.

Revelations 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Now i see the Word of God teaching that if a person takes away from the words of the book of this prophesy that God will take his part out of the Book of Life.
Do note the significance of taking his "part" out and not his "name". That is referring to his inheritance of taking part of being raptured to the city.

You use double negative to make void Revelation 3:5, i would like to see what excuses you will use to make voide these verses as well.

Exodus 32:32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin—; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. 33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book

This verse plainly teaches that Jesus can blot out someone from His Book.
Which book? There is the book of the living and the book of life. Seeing how God plagued the sinful people to die, that would be the book of the living. God determines when a person lives or die. It is from that book of the living that Moses was referring to. Moses would never ask that he be taken out of the Book of Life.

Psalms 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

So Jesus is able to take the Holy Spirit away from someone? Maybe because they are removed from the Book of Life.
Using OT references in regards to the Old Covenant isn't wise to ignore the promise of the New Covenant.

John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Holy Spirit is not going anywhere, brother, even when a believer foolishly lives in sin, but he risks being chastened by the Father.

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are....23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

Hebrews 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. 5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. 9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? 10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. 11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby....25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven: 26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. 27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. 28Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: 29 For our God is a consuming fire.

Psalms 69:28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.

Psalms 109:13 Let his posterity be cut off; and in the generation following let their name be blotted out.

Duet 29:20 The LORD will not spare him, but then the anger of the LORD and his jealousy shall smoke against that man, and all the curses that are written in this book shall lie upon him, and the LORD shall blot out his name from under heaven.
Again: the book of the living is far different than the book of life. Proof that there is more than one book below.

Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

So there is no way you can tell me that all the books was the book of life. So we need His wisodm & discernment to know that the book of the living is the one where the dead will be judged out of in what they had done during their life on earth.

No One needs to learn Greek and Hebrew in order to come to the Knowledge of the Truth. It is the Holy Spirit of God that reveals what is Truth and what is not Truth. learning Greek and Hebrew are for those who do not hear the Holy Spirit of God. i too learned Hebrew and Greek, and all of it is but dung compared to what the Holy Ghost has told me. Nobody needs to go to the Hebrew or Greek to gain understanding. it is the Holy Spirit of God that gives understanding to whom He will give it.

^i^
I completely agree, but sometimes we receive teachings with scriptural references that do not line up with the rest of scripture. As it is, you have to re-examine your teaching because John 6:39 rebukes it and proving that the teaching is in error.

Galatians 4:16Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

1 Corinthians 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Proverbs 27:17 Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.

1 John 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth...27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. 28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
 

DiscipleDave

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2012
3,095
69
48
#86
am hearing you say above There is no blotting out of a believer's name out of the book of life.

Revelations 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Why would Jesus even make this statement if it were not possible to blot someone out of the Book of Life? Double negative! Seriously? that is what you are going to use to make void what the verse says?
You missed out the part about the double negative. The Greek term which "not" was derived from, was declaring that would never happen.
Brother, i did not miss out that part, i merely don't believe you concerning the double negative statement that you teach, to make void what the verse plainly and clearly teaches.

Revelations 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Now i see the Word of God teaching that if a person takes away from the words of the book of this prophesy that God will take his part out of the Book of Life.
Do note the significance of taking his "part" out and not his "name". That is referring to his inheritance of taking part of being raptured to the city.
You say and teach that the "part" is not the name, but referring to his inheritance. This Scriptures does not teach. Verily i will tell you the Truth, Any person who's name is written in the Book, will receive the inheritance, they are not separated one from the other as you are suggesting above. If your name is written in the Book, you will receive the inheritance.

You use double negative to make void Revelation 3:5, i would like to see what excuses you will use to make voide these verses as well.

Exodus 32:32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin—; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. 33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book

This verse plainly teaches that Jesus can blot out someone from His Book.
Which book? There is the book of the living and the book of life. Seeing how God plagued the sinful people to die, that would be the book of the living. God determines when a person lives or die. It is from that book of the living that Moses was referring to. Moses would never ask that he be taken out of the Book of Life.
So that is the excuse you are going to use, YOU teach that that book is the book of the living which is entirely different from the book of Life. What Scriptures teach you that? Where in all of Scriptures does it separate the Book of life from the Book of the living? Can you speak for Moses? How do you know which book he is referring too? it merely says Book. How then do you derive that that book is the Book of living and not the Book of Life? What Scriptures teach that it is the Book of living that Moses was referring too? Or is that what you have to believe so that it fits your own personal belief?

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Holy Spirit is not going anywhere, brother, even when a believer foolishly lives in sin, but he risks being chastened by the Father.
According to the Word of God who receives the Holy Spirit?

Acts5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.


So according to the Inspired Word of God, those who OBEY Jesus receive the Holy Ghost. Those who OBEY HIM are they who are sealed, NOT those who disobey Him and continue to live in sin. You seem to have a habit of picking and choosing which verses you will live by and which ones you will ignore. A person can only come to the understanding of the Truth, when they believe ALL Scriptures, when they ALL fit together perfectly. NOT believing some and ignoring others. Tell me. if a person hates someone, are they Heaven bound? if a person fornicates are they Heaven bound? If a person has not forgiveness toward another are they Heaven Bound. It is written that all liars shall burn in the lake of fire and brimstone. Can a Saved person be considered a LIAR, and still be Heaven bound. What then, because a person claims to be Saved, yet they continue to lie, they are NOT a LIAR?

know you not that ALL reap what they have sown, the unsaved and Saved alike? God chastises Everyone that doeth evil, only more so to those who claim to be Christians followers of His Son, when they sin against Him.

Psalms 69:28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.

Psalms 109:13 Let his posterity be cut off; and in the generation following let their name be blotted out.

Duet 29:20 The LORD will not spare him, but then the anger of the LORD and his jealousy shall smoke against that man, and all the curses that are written in this book shall lie upon him, and the LORD shall blot out his name from under heaven.
Again: the book of the living is far different than the book of life.
Again, show me Scriptures that teach that, else it is what you teach and not the Word of God.

Proof that there is more than one book below.

Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

So there is no way you can tell me that all the books was the book of life. So we need His wisodm & discernment to know that the book of the living is the one where the dead will be judged out of in what they had done during their life on earth.
It is not the Book of the living that a person is judged out of, but the Book of Remembrance, this book records every thought, every deed, Every thing that a person does. The Book of Life and the Book of Living are the same Book, only you say they are different, because if they are the same book then you would have to CHANGE what you believe. Instead of Changing what you believe, it is easier to change verses to fit what you believe.

Malachi3:16 Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a BookofRemembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.


I completely agree, but sometimes we receive teachings with scriptural references that do not line up with the rest of scripture. As it is, you have to re-examine your teaching because John 6:39 rebukes it and proving that the teaching is in error.
my teaching lines up with Scriptures perfectly, you teach that Scriptures do not mean what they plainly say, and then go about to interpret them to fit your own beliefs. Scriptures plainly teach your NAME can be blotted out of His Book.

Revelations 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

You do not believe this verse and what it plainly says, so you interpret it to mean something other then what it plainly says, do you not?

Exodus 32:32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin—; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. 33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book

i believe a person can be blotted out of His Book, but you say a person can't be blotted out, and say the book mentioned in the above verse is not the Book of Life, but say it is some other book He is referring to.

Psalms 109:13 Let his posterity be cut off; and in the generation following let their name be blotted out.

To this verse, you responded not at all, but grouped in with other verses so as to not have to address this verse. This inspired by God verse plainly teaches that a person NAME can be blotted out. Where are name written again? Are they not written in the Book of Life?

Brother, don't believe me, i am not trying to prove that i am right and you are wrong, all i am saying is believe the Word of God and what it teaches, not what you believe to be the Truth, not what i believe to be the Truth, not what others say is the Truth, Believe Scriptures which plainly teach a person Name can be removed from the Book of Life, that is the Truth.

^i^
 
Dec 21, 2012
2,901
39
0
#87
Brother, i did not miss out that part, i merely don't believe you concerning the double negative statement that you teach, to make void what the verse plainly and clearly teaches.
Feel free to explain away these verses then.

John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

That is why I am reading the double negative to mean what it means: He would NEVER do that.

You say and teach that the "part" is not the name, but referring to his inheritance. This Scriptures does not teach. Verily i will tell you the Truth, Any person who's name is written in the Book, will receive the inheritance, they are not separated one from the other as you are suggesting above. If your name is written in the Book, you will receive the inheritance.
Then you have to explain why there are vessels unto dishonour in His House along with the vessels unto dishonour.

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

So that means believers that do not depart from inqiuity will lose the rewards: and that part can include the attending of the Marriage Supper in the city of God: his part would be taken out. Can a vessel unto dishonour have a place of honour at the Supper table? No.

Why else would believers be warned?

2 John 1:8Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.

So that is the excuse you are going to use, YOU teach that that book is the book of the living which is entirely different from the book of Life. What Scriptures teach you that? Where in all of Scriptures does it separate the Book of life from the Book of the living? Can you speak for Moses? How do you know which book he is referring too? it merely says Book. How then do you derive that that book is the Book of living and not the Book of Life? What Scriptures teach that it is the Book of living that Moses was referring too? Or is that what you have to believe so that it fits your own personal belief?
It's not an excuse. The book of the living dealt with life down here. Moses would not ask God to take his name out in sparing the people if that was the actual Book of Life. The Book of Life is about the City of God above.

According to the Word of God who receives the Holy Spirit?

Acts5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

So according to the Inspired Word of God, those who OBEY Jesus receive the Holy Ghost.
Obeying the gosple of grace, brother, which is done by believing in Jesus Christ.

Those who OBEY HIM are they who are sealed, NOT those who disobey Him and continue to live in sin.
Do consider that point for a bit. Any sin committed by a believer means what? They were never saved, and thus they do not have the Holy Spirit? That is not what you sare saying, right?

Then are you saying that we are working for our salvation because we still have to obey Him in order to get the promise of the Holy Ghost?

There's a concundrum here no matter how you look at it, but scripture is clear below.

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. 30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

Ephesians 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. 15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,

So the baptism Peter was talking about was the baptism with the Holy Ghost for obeying the gospel.

1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

So the only repentance and obedience in respect towards the Gospel of grace is to repent from unbelief by believing in Jesus Christ to be saved.

The rest is the call for discipleship in living that reconciled ( not past tense) relationship with God through Jesus Christ, and theree are dire consequences for not following Him as His disciple, but salvation is not on the table to be lost.

You seem to have a habit of picking and choosing which verses you will live by and which ones you will ignore. A person can only come to the understanding of the Truth, when they believe ALL Scriptures, when they ALL fit together perfectly. NOT believing some and ignoring others. Tell me. if a person hates someone, are they Heaven bound? if a person fornicates are they Heaven bound? If a person has not forgiveness toward another are they Heaven Bound. It is written that all liars shall burn in the lake of fire and brimstone. Can a Saved person be considered a LIAR, and still be Heaven bound. What then, because a person claims to be Saved, yet they continue to lie, they are NOT a LIAR?
This is referring to those that profess to know Him and yet live in sin: that person is a liar. It was not referring to whethor or not the person was ever a true believer or that he was never saved. To have fellowship with the Father & the Son for anyone to claim that they know Him, they need to walk in the light as the Son did.

know you not that ALL reap what they have sown, the unsaved and Saved alike? God chastises Everyone that doeth evil, only more so to those who claim to be Christians followers of His Son, when they sin against Him.
True, which brings us back to point: how can those that God has to chasten for not departing from iniquity can have a full reward at His House? There is a loss that will cause a weeping and gnashing of teeth like Esau giving up his birthright for a meal.

Again, show me Scriptures that teach that, else it is what you teach and not the Word of God.
If we use the verses to determine how a text is translated in use of that verse, **example: pneuma can be principle, demons, ghosts, Holy Ghost, mental disposition, & etc. of which the text is defined by how it is used in the verse**

then the book is best defined by how it is used or applied in that verse as well.

#1 Would Moses ask God to blot his name out of the book of the living to be cast into the lake of fire? No. Nobody would ask that. Nobody.

Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Thus the book of the living has to be about being blotted out from living down here any further. Moses was laying his life down here so that God would spare the people, but God rendered His judgment anyway with a plague on the people.

It is not the Book of the living that a person is judged out of, but the Book of Remembrance, this book records every thought, every deed, Every thing that a person does. The Book of Life and the Book of Living are the same Book, only you say they are different, because if they are the same book then you would have to CHANGE what you believe. Instead of Changing what you believe, it is easier to change verses to fit what you believe.
Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

The book of the living cannot be the same book as the book of life. Do note that the plurality of books is written and it was ANOTHER book was oepned that was the book of life. So in spite of what was written in the other books, if they were not written in the book of life, they go to the lake of fire.

Malachi3:16 Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a BookofRemembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.
No. The Book of Remembrance is not for sinners that did not fear the Lord nor thought upon His name.

Again, there are books.... and there is a specific book called the Book of Life.

my teaching lines up with Scriptures perfectly, you teach that Scriptures do not mean what they plainly say, and then go about to interpret them to fit your own beliefs. Scriptures plainly teach your NAME can be blotted out of His Book.

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I did not mean to insult you, brother.

1 Corinthians 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. 16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Philippians 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. 13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, 14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. 15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. 16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.
 

DiscipleDave

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2012
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#88
Feel free to explain away these verses then.

John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

That is why I am reading the double negative to mean what it means: He would NEVER do that.

You are correct, God would never cause someone to lose their Salvation. God will never allow ANOTHER person to cause you to lose your Salvation. Nobody can cause you to be plucked out of His hand. All these statements are True. But they say nothing at all about a person falling from His hand BY CHOICE they make themselves. No person can cause you to lose your Salvation, but you most certainly can yourself.

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.


When does He give them eternal life? According to the Inspired by God Scriptures that is determined on Judgment Day is it not? It is a false assumption that one attains eternal life, while they are yet alive in this body of flesh. Is it not written He that endures to the END shall be SAVED. Paul himself teaches he has not yet reached Salvation, but strives for it, to win the race, to work out your own Salvation because it is not automatic. Judgement Day determines the good from the bad, Those who are written in the Book of Life from those who are not, Those who have eternal life granted to them from those who do not.
It seems to me you believe that once you accept Jesus Christ, your eternal Salvation is secured. But did you not hear what Jesus said "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, AND THEY FOLLOW ME." Those who follow Him, are they who He will give eternal life too come Judgement Day. ANYONE can claim to have Eternal Life, but if they are not following Him, He will not give it to them. The question then is what does the Scriptures teach is considered following Him?

I John 1:7 But IF (Conditional) we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

So then according to the Word of God those who walk in the light, are they who have the blood of Jesus to cleanse them from all sins, But this is IF they are walking in the light. Tell me, if a person knowingly and willingly does something which they know full well is sinful and against Jesus Christ, is that ONE walking in the light? or walking in darkness? Those who walk in the light only, are they who will have all their sins that are past cleansed by the Blood of Jesus Christ. NOT those who continue to walk in darkness all they while they claim with their mouths they are walking in the light, they are Saved, they have eternal life.
Again anyone can say they believe in Jesus Christ and have eternal life, but if that same person is not living by the Word of God, they are deceiving themselves not knowing the Truth at all.

Right Now, i know for assuredly if i were to did or be killed or Christ comes back this second, that i have eternal life, and will be with Him, and serve Him for ever. This does not mean tomorrow i can't turn away from Him, start living a life of pleasure and sins, and forsake Him. But if i endure to the End, then i shall be Saved, and then He will give me Eternal Life which will be forever.

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DiscipleDave

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2012
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#89
Then you have to explain why there are vessels unto dishonour in His House along with the vessels unto dishonour.

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

So that means believers that do not depart from inqiuity will lose the rewards: and that part can include the attending of the Marriage Supper in the city of God: his part would be taken out. Can a vessel unto dishonour have a place of honour at the Supper table? No.
The difference is when you come across a verse that seems to be saying you can lose your Salvation, you interpret them to mean NOT your Salvation but rewards. Reread the above verses you give and show me anywhere where it talks about rewards. The verse is quite clear, that any person who nameth the name of Christ (call themselves a Christian) depart (cease from) sinning. Which is also what
I John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. says. But you take that plainly written verse and change it to something other then what it says saying things about rewards and the such. People hearken unto me, believe the Word of God and what it plainly says and teaches, not what men teach based on their own interpretations. Is it not written that interpretations belong to God? Who then is man to try to interpret His Word, God will interpret His own Word by and through His own Word and the Holy Spirit.

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DiscipleDave

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2012
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#90
It's not an excuse. The book of the living dealt with life down here. Moses would not ask God to take his name out in sparing the people if that was the actual Book of Life. The Book of Life is about the City of God above.
Where is it written that the book of the living dealt with life down here, Is this not your belief? Not what Scriptures teach?
You say Moses would not ask God to take his name out in sparing the people. How do you know Moses would not ask this? We have examples of Moses doing exactly that, Moses pleaded many times on the behalf of the people. He was always pleading to God on behalf of the people. Why then is it so hard for you to believe that Moses would be willing to give up his life to save others?

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cfultz3

Guest
#91
ENOW said: 2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

So that means believers that do not depart from inqiuity will lose the rewards: and that part can include the attending of the Marriage Supper in the city of God: his part would be taken out. Can a vessel unto dishonour have a place of honour at the Supper table? No.

To that, I say:

Then how many lords are we to have? Is it possible to have two masters?

Shall a believer who believes in the One who will say, 'Depart from me you workers of inqiuty', condemn this One in His own words? How then is it possible for you to say that a believer who does not depart from inquity will only lose reward? Will he not lose everlasting life instead, as to pertake of the second death?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#92
ENOW said: 2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

So that means believers that do not depart from inqiuity will lose the rewards: and that part can include the attending of the Marriage Supper in the city of God: his part would be taken out. Can a vessel unto dishonour have a place of honour at the Supper table? No.

To that, I say:

Then how many lords are we to have? Is it possible to have two masters?

Shall a believer who believes in the One who will say, 'Depart from me you workers of inqiuty', condemn this One in His own words? How then is it possible for you to say that a believer who does not depart from inquity will only lose reward? Will he not lose everlasting life instead, as to pertake of the second death?
I agree for the most part. only to add this to this comment of yours:

a believer who does not depart from inquity will only lose reward? Will he not lose everlasting life instead, as to pertake of the second death?

1. A believer who does not impart from iniquity is a believer in name only. Not in faith, for there was no repentance.
2. This person will suffer the second death as you said (if they do not repent) but not because they lost salvation. they never had it.
 

DiscipleDave

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2012
3,095
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#93
Do consider that point for a bit. Any sin committed by a believer means what? They were never saved, and thus they do not have the Holy Spirit? That is not what you sare saying, right?
Any person who claims to be Saved, yet they continue to live in sin, without ceasing from them, are not Saved. Any person who is living in a backsliden condition is not Saved either. He that endures to the end shall be Saved. On Judgment Day will determine who is and who is not Truly Saved. This does not mean a person can't Truly repent and be washed by His Blood. But in order to receive forgiveness of a particular sin, you must first be Truly sorry for that sin, and then cease to do that sin ever again. How sorry are you if you continue to do the very things that you repented of? A good tree ONLY produces good fruits, it does not produce any bad fruits, if it did produce one bad fruit, how then is it a Good Tree? Come Judgement Day, you are either a Good Tree which only produces good fruit, or you are a Bad Tree which produces bad fruits. You will be one or the other, there is no in-between. You can produce 1000 good fruits (deeds) but because of that one bad fruit (hating another, or not forgiving someone, etc..) you will be considered a bad tree, because of that particular bad fruit.

Then are you saying that we are working for our salvation because we still have to obey Him in order to get the promise of the Holy Ghost?
The Holy Spirit is given to who, according to the Word of God?

Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey Him.


Who does God give the Holy Ghost too? To them that OBEY HIM.

Those who are are Truly Saved, and numbered with the Saints, will not continue to live in sins, they will have works, not to BE SAVED, they will have works because they ARE SAVED.

There's a concundrum here no matter how you look at it, but scripture is clear below.

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. [/quote}

Am i Saved? Most certainly i am SAVED, it i die right now, i will indeed have eternal life forever and ever, because i am SAVED. Does this mean i will be SAVED ten years from now? Because i am walking the walk does that mean i will always walk the walk, i hope so sure. I am Saved right now, i am 100% assured of that, and i know where i am going if i were to die right now, Does that mean i know i will be SAVED next month? NO!, i have to endure to the end to be Saved. i have to make it to Judgement Day STILL walking the walk, still abiding in Him. It is the Power of God that helps me day to day to remain in His Will. But if i choose through my own selfishness to continue to sin against Him, how then am i STILL walking the walk if i choose to sin against Jesus Christ by obeying His enemy the devil and sinning against Him?
The verse above is plainly and clearly speaking to those who claim to be Saved, who claim to be Christians. The verse above does NOT say or teach that the SAVED will remain that way.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Those who are as the above verse says, are they that are SAVED, they are Born of God. Reread the above verses you give. Those who believe in Jesus, believe on His Name, are Born of God correct? Hence the reason we are Born again, because we are Born of God, now consider what the Word of God teaches us what it means to be Truly Born of God:

I John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

I John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
(Does the wicked one tempt you?)

I John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Believe the Word of God and not what men teach. Jesus told a man and a woman to "Go and sin no more" NOT because that is impossible to do, but through Him very possible to do.

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cfultz3

Guest
#94
I agree for the most part. only to add this to this comment of yours:

a believer who does not depart from inquity will only lose reward? Will he not lose everlasting life instead, as to pertake of the second death?

1. A believer who does not impart from iniquity is a believer in name only. Not in faith, for there was no repentance.
2. This person will suffer the second death as you said (if they do not repent) but not because they lost salvation. they never had it.
For the person who has two supposive masters, I totally agree with you, EG.