Keep The Commandments

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
Then why is it that Christians have not met for worship on Saturday? In fact we do not see any Christians ever mention saturday worship until the the 1500's? If it is so simple, then why do the vast majority of Christians worship on Sunday?

The only ones who go to Church on Saturday are a handful of messianic Christians and Seventh day Adventists. Why is that? What do they say about it?
Well, here are a few quotes about the change...

“Is not every Christian obliged to sanctify Sunday and to abstain on that day from unnecessary servile work? Is not the observance of this law among the most prominent of our sacred duties? But you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify.” James Cardinal Gibbons, The Faith of Our Fathers (1917 edition), p. 72-73 (16th Edition, p 111; 88th Edition, p. 89).

“For example, nowhere in the Bible do we find that Christ or the Apostles ordered that the Sabbath be changed from Saturday to Sunday. We have the commandment of God given to Moses to keep holy the Sabbath day, that is the 7th day of the week, Saturday. Today most Christians keep Sunday because it has been revealed to us by the [Roman Catholic] church outside the Bible.” Catholic Virginian, October 3, 1947, p. 9, article “To Tell You the Truth.”

“Most Christians assume that Sunday is the biblically approved day of worship. The Catholic Church protests that it transferred Christian worship from the biblical Sabbath (Saturday) to Sunday, and that to try to argue that the change was made in the Bible is both dishonest and a denial of Catholic authority. If Protestantism wants to base its teachings only on the Bible, it should worship on Saturday.” Rome’s Challenge www.immaculateheart.com/maryonline Dec 2003.

“Question: How prove you that the church had power to command feasts and holydays?”
“Answer: By the very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, which Protestants allow of and therefore they fondly contradict themselves by keeping Sunday strictly, and breaking most other feasts commanded by the same church.”

“Question: Have you any other way of proving that the church has power to institute festivals of precept?”
“Answer: Had she not such power, she could not a done that in which all modern religionists agree with her; -she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day of the week, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority.” Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism On the Obedience Due to the Church, 3rd edition, Chapter 2, p. 174 (Imprimatur, John Cardinal McCloskey, Archbishop of New York).

“Question - Which is the Sabbath day?”
“Answer - Saturday is the Sabbath day.”
“Question - Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?”
“Answer - We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea (A.D. 364), transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.” Peter Geiermann, C.S.S.R., The Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, p. 50, 3rd edition, 1957.

“Nowhere in the Bible is it stated that worship should be changed from Saturday to Sunday...Now the Church...instituted, by God’s authority, Sunday as the day of worship. This same Church, by the same divine authority, taught the doctrine of Purgatory long before the Bible was made. We have, therefore, the same authority for Purgatory as we have for Sunday.” Martin J. Scott, Things Catholics Are Asked About, 1927 edition, p. 136.

“Written by the finger of God on two tables of stone, this Divine code (ten commandments) was received from the Almighty by Moses amid the thunders of Mount Sinai...Christ resumed these Commandments in the double precept of charity--love of God and of the neighbour; He proclaimed them as binding under the New Law in Matthew 19 and in the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5)...The (Catholic) Church, on the other hand, after changing the day of rest from the Jewish Sabbath, or seventh day of the week, to the first, made the Third Commandment refer to Sunday as the day to be kept holy as the Lord’s Day...He (God) claims one day out of the seven as a memorial to Himself, and this must be kept holy...” The Catholic Encyclopaedia, vol. 4, “The Ten Commandments”, 1908 edition by Robert Appleton Company; and 1999 Online edition by Kevin Knight, Imprimatur, John M. Farley, Archbishop of New York.

“Question. What warrant have you for keeping Sunday preferably to the ancient sabbath which was Saturday?
“Answer. We have for it the authority of the Catholic church and apostolic tradition.”

“Question. Does the Scripture anywhere command the Sunday to be kept for the Sabbath?”
“Answer. The Scripture commands us to hear the church (St.Matt.18:17; St. Luke 10:16), and to hold fast the traditions of the apostles. 2 Thess 2:15. But the Scripture does not in particular mention this change of the Sabbath.”

“Perhaps the boldest thing, the most revolutionary change the Church ever did, happened in the first century. The holy day, the Sabbath, was changed from Saturday to Sunday. ‘The day of the Lord’ was chosen, not from any direction noted in the Scriptures, but from the (Catholic) Church’s sense of its own power...People who think that the Scriptures should be the sole authority, should logically become 7th Day Adventists, and keep Saturday holy.” St. Catherine Church Sentinel, Algonac, Michigan, May 21, 1995.

“Is Saturday the seventh day according to the Bible and the Ten Commandments? I answer yes. Is Sunday the first day of the week and did the Church change the seventh day - Saturday - for Sunday, the first day? I answer yes. Did Christ change the day'? I answer no!
“Faithfully yours, J. Card. Gibbons.” James Cardinal Gibbons, Archbishop of Baltimore, Md. (1877-1921), in a signed letter.

Why don't you do what I had to do when I came out of the Methodist church? Study into this for yourself, it is infinitely easier in todays age of the internet than back in the day when one had to go to the library and search the card catologue.

As far as "a handful of messianic Christians and Seventh day Adventists", there are over 530 different churches and organizations that keep the Sabbath. You should check into that also.
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
Interesting comment. How do we keep the Law? If the Law says don't committ adultery, you keep the Law by NOT COMMITTING ADULTERY. It doesn't seem real complicated to me. If God states in His fourth Commandment to keep the seventh day Holy, keep the seventh day Holy.
There is no law which says to help another in distress.

But yet, we have the Spirit speaking to us, "don't walk on by that man in need of help!!!"

Love is the summary of the Law and by the Spirit we fulfill the Law.

We cannot please God with the ordinances of the flesh, but with every breath proceeding from the LIVING Spirit, we are lead.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
There is no law which says to help another in distress.
Your right, there is no one single law, but there are probably hundreds, but here are a few...

Exo 23:4 If thou meet thine enemy's ox or his ass going astray, thou shalt surely bring it back to him again.

Exo 23:5 If thou see the ass of him that hateth thee lying under his burden, and wouldest forbear to help him, thou shalt surely help with him.

Exo 23:9 Also thou shalt not oppress a stranger: for ye know the heart of a stranger, seeing ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

Lev 23:22 And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not make clean riddance of the corners of thy field when thou reapest, neither shalt thou gather any gleaning of thy harvest: thou shalt leave them unto the poor, and to the stranger: I am the LORD your God.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
We cannot please God with the ordinances of the flesh, but with every breath proceeding from the LIVING Spirit, we are lead.
I hear this a lot, but what does God say about it?

Exo 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
Exo 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Deu 5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

Abraham...


Gen 26:3 Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father;
Gen 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

And this irritated God so much He inspired this...

2Ch 20:7 Art not thou our God, who didst drive out the inhabitants of this land before thy people Israel, and gavest it to the seed of Abraham thy friend for ever?

Isa 41:8 But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.

Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
Dear John,

If by the flesh you wish to please God, then, by all means, let the Law be your schoolmaster. Let it be known to you that if you fail in one aspect, if you have fail it all.

If the righteous dead who were under the Law went to Abraham's Bosom until they received justification through the blood of Christ, then do you not think that you, if the Law is your guide, will also go to Hades? Will Christ once again conquer death for those who place themselves under the death penalty of the Law? Is our justification in the Law or Him?

Let us therefore die to the flesh so that we might live through the Spirit.


Chris


P.S. We cannot have two masters.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
Jesus said this
John 14:15
(15) If ye love me, keep my commandments.

This comes from the 10 commandments.
Exodus 20:6
(6) And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
all 613 listed in the OT or do you think there are some that should/can be excluded?

do you keep this one:

Deuteronomy 22:11 “You shall not wear a garment of different sorts, such as wool and linen mixed together.

so all those "cotton blends" shirts might need to be burnt?
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
Dear John,

If by the flesh you wish to please God, then, by all means, let the Law be your schoolmaster. Let it be known to you that if you fail in one aspect, if you have fail it all.

If the righteous dead who were under the Law went to Abraham's Bosom until they received justification through the blood of Christ, then do you not think that you, if the Law is your guide, will also go to Hades? Will Christ once again conquer death for those who place themselves under the death penalty of the Law? Is our justification in the Law or Him?

Let us therefore die to the flesh so that we might live through the Spirit.


Chris


P.S. We cannot have two masters.
Are you serving Christ by murdering? If so by all means break the sixth Commandment.

Are you serving Christ by cursing and using God's name in foul ways? If so by all means break the third Commandment.

Are you serving Christ by stealing? Then by all means break the eigth Commandment.

Now be honest, the only Commandment you really have a problem with is that pesk fourth one, isn't it?
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
all 613 listed in the OT or do you think there are some that should/can be excluded?

do you keep this one:

Deuteronomy 22:11 “You shall not wear a garment of different sorts, such as wool and linen mixed together.

so all those "cotton blends" shirts might need to be burnt?
Hmmm, and where in that Law are synthetic fibers noted? By the way, where is cotton noted?
 
D

danschance

Guest
Hmmm, and where in that Law are synthetic fibers noted? By the way, where is cotton noted?
The bible does not mention types of fibers. It simply states you are not to wear clothing made of mixed fibers.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
Hmmm, and where in that Law are synthetic fibers noted? By the way, where is cotton noted?
"garment of different sorts" kind of covers blended fibers of any type. the "such as" is used as an example not an exclusive list....

so are you saying we shouldn't use any cotton or synthetic fibers since God didn't list it for us to use?
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
1 Corinthians 7:19 KJV
(19) Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
1 Samuel 15:22 KJV
(22) And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
I like this posts. it asks the questions I want to but I notice no one has answered it yet. it just get buried in the second page of this thread. :(

i made it big and red, could someone answer it please?

2 Corinthians 3:7-9
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
[SUP]9[/SUP]For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.


Why are the 10 commandments referred to as the ministration of death and the ministration of condemnation???



John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

God's Law was given by Moses. But Grace and Truth came by Jesus Christ. Interesting distinction.


John 5:45-46

[SUP]45 [/SUP]Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.



How does Moses accuse you?
Romans 3:19-20
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

That's the 10 commandments by the way and not some "sacrificial" or "ceremonial" law. That is why its called the ministration of death written and engraven on stones...


Not the carnally minded. The carnal mind.

The same mind that you used to write that post.

The same mind and power you use to "keep" the commandments.

It is the enemy of God and is not subject to His Law.

Why do you think the Lord Jesus never had anything nice to say about Pharisees? They supposedly "kept" the commandments better than anyone else on the planet.


Check this out for a moment and tell me what you think...

Luke 18:10-14
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.


Does the humble man say keep the commandments?



Or does the humble man tell you that all we need as Christians is found in Christ?
The humble man admits to being a sinner and needing God. He admits to being UNWORTHY.

God tells us:

Isaiah 57:15 For thus says the High and Lofty One Who inhabits eternity, whose name is Holy: “I dwell in the high and holy place, With him who has a contrite and humble spirit, To revive the spirit of the humble, And to revive the heart of the contrite ones.



Matthew 15:16-18
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
The purpose of dietary law were the same as fringes on the clothes: to remind people of GOD.

Adam and Eve ate only plants. It wasn't until the flood with Noah that God allowed people to eat meat.

Now God says:

1 Timothy 4
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; [SUP]5 [/SUP]for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
Exactly, when it comes to obedience to God, most need to sit down and have a discussion and a reasoning session instead of just saying yes. If God told you to stand on one foot, turn your head to the left and spit through your teeth, what would your response be?
Prove that you are God.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
I like this posts. it asks the questions I want to but I notice no one has answered it yet. it just get buried in the second page of this thread. :(

i made it big and red, could someone answer it please?
Romans 6:23 KJV
(23) For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 3:20 KJV
(20) Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

 
A

Ariel82

Guest
The sabbath never had anything to do with assembling anyway, it was a day of rest. Yes many jews assembled on this day. but that does not mean it was required.

The church met on the first day of the week (Sunday) in the NT. They also assembled themselves in little groups often during the week and I am sure weekend. not just on Sunday..

People have twisted the sabbath like the jews did. It is a sad state..
yeah it makes one wonder if people actually read the BIble for themselves or if they just swallow the doctrine about the Sabbath whole?

like this verse for example:

"
108.Not to travel on the Sabbath outside the limits of one's place of residence



(Ex. 16:29)"


If you are not suppose to leave your house, or in the time of the wandering around the desert, your campsite, then how does that apply today?

The only BIG meeting times were during the festivals. Most of which were shadows of Jesus life, which many people don't recognize as being FULFILLED by Jesus.

anyway, going to keep reading the thread. on page 7 now.. wonder what is the last page...
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
No exceptions? Shouldn't go to Sabbath services?

Mat 12:1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.
Mat 12:2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.
Mat 12:3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;
Mat 12:4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?
Mat 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
Mat 12:6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
Mat 12:7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
Mat 12:9 And when he was departed thence, he went into their synagogue:
Mat 12:10 And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.
Mat 12:11 And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?
Mat 12:12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.
Mat 12:13 Then saith he to the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it forth; and it was restored whole, like as the other.
Mat 12:14 Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him.

The Pharisees taught the rigorous teachings you are referring to.
oh the irony.....


 
A

Ariel82

Guest

Why are the 10 commandments referred to as the ministration of death and the ministration of condemnation???


Romans 6:23 KJV
(23) For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 3:20 KJV
(20) Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

would you like to add commentary?
 
L

Laodicea

Guest

would you like to add commentary?
The purpose of the law is not to save us. It is like a mirror pointing out sin so that we go to Christ to be cleansed. In Exodus God gave the 10 commandments and then the sanctuary message which teaches about Christ and the gospel. So Exodus has the law and the gospel.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
The purpose of the law is not to save us. It is like a mirror pointing out sin so that we go to Christ to be cleansed. In Exodus God gave the 10 commandments and then the sanctuary message which teaches about Christ and the gospel. So Exodus has the law and the gospel.
I agree that is the correct usage of the law:

1 timothy 1

you may charge some that they teach no other doctrine, [SUP]4 [/SUP]nor give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which cause disputes rather than godly edification which is in faith. [SUP]5 [/SUP]Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith, [SUP]6 [/SUP]from which some, having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk, [SUP]7 [/SUP]desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say nor the things which they affirm. [SUP]8 [/SUP]But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, [SUP]9 [/SUP]knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, [SUP]10 [/SUP]for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine, [SUP]11 [/SUP]according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God which was committed to my trust.


would be interested in seeing your notes on how Exodus has both the Law and the Gospel. If you care to share that would be great :)
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
Do you understand about the sanctuary that God told them to build? They had to bring a sacrifice for their sin to the priest. The sacrifice for our sin is Jesus, He is also the high priest. The sanctuary had a lamp, Jesus is the light of the world. They had bread, Jesus is the true bread. They had the altar of incense, where they would put put blood, that is our prayers mingled with the righteousness of Christ, that is what makes our prayers acceptable to God.