Keep The Commandments

[JaumeJ]

The following is pasted from other ops which deal with this very same subject. Please pay close attention to the tenses in the sentences of the Scripture...........

It seems those against the law are seeking the law more than those who do the law by the new nature afforded by the Holy Spirit. The law for those who live in grace is only a reminder of the words given by our Father, Yahweh, or if you prefer, Jesus, to study and gain wisdom in teaching what is the best way and action in certain given instances, but those who have received Yeshua know this by nature. For why does it teach how "aforetime the believers were disobedient," if the laws did not still account for a persons actions in part. Of course it goes on to say it is our conscience that is clear in the sight of God, but our nature has become obedient. Obey the Father, good children DO this.



1Pe 3:18
Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God; being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;

1Pe 3:19
in which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison,

1Pe 3:20
that aforetime were disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water:

1Pe 3:21
which also after a true likeness doth now save you, even baptism, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the interrogation of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ;

1Pe 3:22
who is on the right hand of God, having gone into heaven; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Then if someone breaks a couple of them like killing you, having a go at your wife and stealing everything you have, you would have no problem with that because the Law doesn't apply any more.

This is just plain stupid reasoning.

Reason will never give you the ability to understand this:

What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because [they sought it] not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. Romans 9:30-33
​

 

[Michael50]

But we have no 'love' in us Michael, and, I know you're an angel to your wife, but there is none of you good, brother, you must live in Christ alone, He your life, He in you leading. The Lord leads. We can only go places right when we follow Him. Don't follow anyone else, and, certainly, don't follow your self. 'Self' will become persuaded to flesh EVERY time, you must display to your wife the Love of Christ Be led by Him, find yourself in Him, in His Spirit leading your spirit.

God bless your marriage, mike

We have love in us,, for you to say we don't is just a downright lie. We can be good. You have been reading the Bible and you have come away with comparing yourself to Christ!!! And if you do that, you are filthy. There is no good in you when you compare yourself to Christ.

Conmpare yourself to Hitler, or Charles manson.... You will find, that you have good inside you. That you are capable of doing good deeds.

I do follow Jesus,, that's how I came to be an adventist!

I see 2 kinds of people everywhere,even here:

1 group says forget the law, live as you desire, you are saved.
1 group says Keep the Law, If you love Jesus, you will obey and keep His Commandments.

The first group I mentioned won't be in heaven. And many that wont be in heaven are here in these Christian Chats claiming the Law is void and we are free to sin as we please. They refer to themselves as Christians. But, they are liars.

 

[Ariel82]

Proverbs 16:18
Pride goes before destruction, And a haughty spirit before a fall.

I see 2 kinds of people everywhere,even here:

1 group says forget the law, live as you desire, you are saved.
1 group says Keep the Law, If you love Jesus, you will obey and keep His Commandments.

the "us, righteous folks: self proclaimed keepers of the Law, provers of our love for Jesus because we think we keep His commandments" versus "them, strawman of my construction: libertine sinners and hypocrites" act gets old after away.
\
I wonder if you even realize the hypocrisy of your stance and statements?

probably not. you will probably just get angry, huffy, defensive and self justifying some more than actually listening to anything anyone says.

<sigh> i'm going fishing with the kids.

when you get tired of torching your strawmen and actually want to talk or listen to what people are trying to say, maybe we can talk.

cuz its obvious you don't see the group that says KNOW JESUS, repent of your sins and learn to LIVE by the guidance of the Holy Spirit. That God's laws are more than outward rules of conduct. that what many call the laws of God are just manmade doctrines and pomp and show that have nothing to do with what God intended or the message He gave to His people at all.

Greenie can be hard to understand sometimes but his message was basic:

Galatians 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

 

[Michael50]

Proverbs 16:18
Pride goes before destruction, And a haughty spirit before a fall.



the "us, righteous folks: self proclaimed keepers of the Law, provers of our love for Jesus because we think we keep His commandments" versus "them, strawman of my construction: libertine sinners and hypocrites" act gets old after away.
\
I wonder if you even realize the hypocrisy of your stance and statements?

probably not. you will probably just get angry, huffy, defensive and self justifying some more than actually listening to anything anyone says.

<sigh> i'm going fishing with the kids.

when you get tired of torching your strawmen and actually want to talk or listen to what people are trying to say, maybe we can talk.

cuz its obvious you don't see the group that says KNOW JESUS, repent of your sins and learn to LIVE by the guidance of the Holy Spirit. That God's laws are more than outward rules of conduct. that what many call the laws of God are just manmade doctrines and pomp and show that have nothing to do with what God intended or the message He gave to His people at all.

Greenie can be hard to understand sometimes but his message was basic:

Galatians 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

I think you are the one that is upset. I'm not upset. I see things quite clearly. Youi saying stuff like "maybe we can talk",, and words to that effect, show, that YOU are the one with pre-conditions, not I.

I tell it like it is,, and because I do,, I tend to rub people the wrong way. The folks the Love the Truth can handle me easily. But the ones who like to make a muddy mess of simple clear instruction, ( If ye Love Me, keep My Commandments.) don't take me well at all. I've known that for years.

I will not compromise Gods law for the sake of getting along with those who are in clear error and refuse to see it.

You can talk to me anytime, I have no pre-conditions.

Either we are to obey the Lord or not. It's that simple. We really don't need all the other confusing doctrines and flattering paragraphs full of words such as, Faith, Justification, Rightousness, Grace, and every other biblical term we can throw out there to make it appear as if we are are well groomed Bible scholars.

Either you keep the Law, or you toss it. It's that simple.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Either you keep the Law, or you toss it. It's that simple.

False dichotomy. The truth is either you do works of law or you live in faith.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Conmpare yourself to Hitler, or Charles manson.... You will find, that you have good inside you. That you are capable of doing good deeds.

This is the root of your problem. You have not yet confronted your sin. You think you are a moral person. GOD is not interested in morality; he wants righteousness.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You asked, "when are you going to comprehend the fact, NO ONE WILL BE SAVED BY DOING THIS, THEY DO IT BECAUSE THEY ARE SAVED."?????

I knew and understood that long,long ago. That is why I gave you the marriage example. It basically says, I don't cheat on my wife because I LOVE HER,,,not because of a law, or vows. Love alone leads me to be an uplifting joy and helpmate in her life. I can't say I'm an uplifting joy to her, if I'm at the strip club lusting for another.

Thats a faulty argument. If you want to be realistic. Saying you love her would mean you would never sin against her. But this is not the case. Your using one sin trying to make it sound good. Not realizing ALL SIN in Gods eyes are the same. You think it is different that you would keep something from her, then going to a strip club? They are both sins against her. Thats the flaw in this logic..

I asked so you would say, Do you believe a person who is saved obeys God. or a person is saved BECAUSE they obey. they are totally different things. From what I read, you believe the second.

Being grateful to Jesus for what He did on the Cross leads me to obey Him. He has displayed His love for me. I realize it. My reciprocation in return is to follow Him and Obey His Commands. Not because it saves me,, but because I love Jesus.

ok then. Why are you slaming on people who believe this very same thing then?? (like myself and prolly all you are arguing with and against)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

There you go with again. No one here has said that we are justified by the Law but you!

I do?? Since when am I saying one MUST obey to be saved? I have never said that. That is you all who are saying if we do not do this we will lose salvation.

Now your trying to dodge your own belief system?

 

[Michael50]

This is the root of your problem. You have not yet confronted your sin. You think you are a moral person. GOD is not interested in morality; he wants righteousness.

When Jesus comes, we shall see who has the problem, me or you. But right now,, only 1 of us seems to be saved.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Then if someone breaks a couple of them like killing you, having a go at your wife and stealing everything you have, you would have no problem with that because the Law doesn't apply any more.

This is just plain stupid reasoning.

doing these things are no different than not helping a neighbor who is in need, Not respecting someone who God put in authority over you, or decidng to stay home and watch the super bowl instead of assembling yourself together..

In Gods eyes, both of these people are equally as evil. and undeserving of condemnation..

Why do you people continue to focus on the outward sin, and ignore the inward?? which is easily hidden??

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We should all agree that no one is made righteous by keeping the law. We should all agree that we keep the law of God out of love. We should all agree that only by Christ in us is it possible for the law to be kept, It is no longer I that liveth but...

Then why do people persist in saying we are not saved by keeping the law when no one is saying that?

Because they can say they do not say it until they are blue in the face. But what the teach and what they say do not jive.

If you can lose salvation by not obeying to some standard (a standard not even they can agree on) then you are teaching salvation by law.

it makes no difference if you say your salvation is not given until you obey, like the jews. or if you can get salvation by faith, but can lose it if you do not follow his commands to some standard (which again, they can not give, even when asked)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We have love in us,, for you to say we don't is just a downright lie. We can be good. You have been reading the Bible and you have come away with comparing yourself to Christ!!! And if you do that, you are filthy. There is no good in you when you compare yourself to Christ.

Conmpare yourself to Hitler, or Charles manson.... You will find, that you have good inside you. That you are capable of doing good deeds.

Here is the flaw. We are in danger if we look at ourselves and compair ourselves with other people (like Hitler and Manson)

We need to look at ourslves through the eyes of God as he sees us.

When he stands us inbetween hitler and manson by our own, he sees three people totally deserving of eternal condemnation. With NO hope of being saved. The law condemns us all. We could NEVER obey the law good enough to earn salvation.

Christ is needed for ALL THREE to be saved. If Hitler and manson repented before they died. And you (who think you have good in you because you are not like them) did not. They would reach eternity with Jesus, and you would not.

This is what gets you all in trouble. Your compairing yourself to men who are evil in your eyes. And not seeing yourself as just as evil in Gods eyes!

 

[Michael50]

I don't care why you keep the law,, just that you keep it.

If you think keeping the law saves you,, good, keep it.

If you think keeping the law is obeying Jesus, good keep it.

If you keep the law because you know that you dont need a savior, good, do it.

If you break the law and say you cannot keep it,,,, don't ask to babysit my kids, and don't fill out an application for a job at my business,, I cannot use you. I do not trust you.

If you love Jesus and you desire to follow and obey Him by Honoring His Father and doing His Will, which is to Obey Him, which means Observing and keeping His Commandments , then,, you are welcome in my home and I will consider your application for a job. I may introduce you to my kids too.

But if you claim Jesus, and go around sinning as you please,,, keep walking past my home, I have no use for you. Nor does the Lord you claim.

 

[Michael50]

Here is the flaw. We are in danger if we look at ourselves and compair ourselves with other people (like Hitler and Manson)

We need to look at ourslves through the eyes of God as he sees us.

When he stands us inbetween hitler and manson by our own, he sees three people totally deserving of eternal condemnation. With NO hope of being saved. The law condemns us all. We could NEVER obey the law good enough to earn salvation.

Christ is needed for ALL THREE to be saved. If Hitler and manson repented before they died. And you (who think you have good in you because you are not like them) did not. They would reach eternity with Jesus, and you would not.

This is what gets you all in trouble. Your compairing yourself to men who are evil in your eyes. And not seeing yourself as just as evil in Gods eyes!

I sure hope you are not a parent,, because you would always belittle your kids,, always telling them they are not good. Would you also tell them to quit trying to walk? Afterall, they will only fall....Right? And if they fall once,, haven't they screwed up the perfect walk????? So,, stay down kid,, no sense trying to walk, you will only fail at some other point. Right???

I'm not as evil as Hitler,, and for you make that rediculous claim shows me that whoever has been giving you your little green merit badges is as confused as you are. Wise up,, are you really going to sit here and claim I wanted the whole jewish race eliminated???? That's what Hitler wanted.. And here you are claiming I'm just as evil as Adolph Hitler???

You are full of more stuffing than a Christmas Turkey.

 

[john832]

False dichotomy. The truth is either you do works of law or you live in faith.

And yet we read...

Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

The demons believe and tremble, they just won't obey. In fact, I dare say they believe much more deeply than any human, they have actually seen God, yet they are disobedient...

1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Jas_2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Jas_2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

It takes both.

Rev 2:13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

I think you should change the 'or' for an 'and'.

 

[JaumeJ]

There is no rejection of grace in observing the wisdom and teachings of the law. Now if one does not know the difference between those which pertain to love and those pertainng to what to touch or not touch or to eat or not to eat or how to act were there a temple, I am afraid the entire point is missed.

Once we live in grace we study the law for the wisdom and teaching contained there in. For instance, the law not to sow two kinds of seed in the same field. Here is wisdom. The Sower is Yeshua, the seed is the Word, any other seed is not the Word, therefore sowing two kinds of see in the field, the world, leads to confusion. There is only one seed, the Word of Yeshua.

Another similar teaching from the law, do not blend your materials in making garments. Taking this to the symbolic meaning, our deeds are our clothing. We do not want good cloth mixed with inferior cloth. We do not want good works mixed with evil, for this cannot please the Father.

There is so much more to the laws than simply do or don't, but if one will not see, this is plainly wrong. If one cannot see, then it is very sad indeed.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

When Jesus comes, we shall see who has the problem, me or you. But right now,, only 1 of us seems to be saved.

When Jesus comes, You will both be doomed. Only the one who has been washed by the spirit to eternal life through faith in Christ alone will be saved.

If your going to try to see by which one of you is more righteous (according to law) and use that as the determining factor, you will both lose. For ALL have sinned and fall short.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I sure hope you are not a parent,, because you would always belittle your kids,, always telling them they are not good. Would you also tell them to quit trying to walk? Afterall, they will only fall....Right? And if they fall once,, haven't they screwed up the perfect walk????? So,, stay down kid,, no sense trying to walk, you will only fail at some other point. Right???

sure hope your not a parent. You will tell your kids they never have to learn, They are doing ok as long as they obey your standard. And they do not need to learn anything. Because they have already made it.

As for me being a parent. I am a flawed parent. As I am a flawed Child of God. were it not for his blood, I would be doomed.

But that does not seem to matter to you, You think you made it.. i will continue to be the begger slamming my chest on my knees, you go ahead and be the pharisee praising God your not like me.

I'm not as evil as Hitler,, and for you make that rediculous claim shows me that whoever has been giving you your little green merit badges is as confused as you are. Wise up,, are you really going to sit here and claim I wanted the whole jewish race eliminated???? That's what Hitler wanted.. And here you are claiming I'm just as evil as Adolph Hitler???

No. I did not Claim it. GOD DID! You better listen to him, or you will be doomed.

You are full of more stuffing than a Christmas Turkey.

you are so full of yourself, you can;t find your way out to even find Christ.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And yet we read...

Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

The demons believe and tremble, they just won't obey. In fact, I dare say they believe much more deeply than any human, they have actually seen God, yet they are disobedient...

1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Jas_2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Jas_2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

It takes both.

Rev 2:13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

I think you should change the 'or' for an 'and'.

Nope. How many works is zero works?? You people want to make zero add up to some imaginary number of works, When james said clearly. If a man says he has faith but has NO (ZERO ZIP NADA) Works. Can his faith save him??

James is speaking to people who have a mere belief only. NO FAITH. A dead faith is no faith. If we are saved by faith alone in the work of Jesus, and we do not have faith (only mere belief) How can we be saved? That is what James is asking.

try again,

Sad part is. You and those like you do not have true faith. You have mere belief. Your faith (true) is in your works and how well you obey the law. Not in Christ who paid it all for you.

As for Rev, Those are the dead who were delivered to Christ. Not those who were alive in Christ raised by him. Non of the people at that judgment will be saved. They will ALL be judged by their works. and found lacking, because they rejected christ work, and tried to replace his work with their own.

The law will judge them./ The very law you claim you follow. and declare your not trying to earn your salvation.