KEEPING TORAH.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
Hey zone :)

Im back now :D turns out i didnt realise i had received the baptism of the spirit and i was looking for something I had already received! *facepalm*

But now that I have confidence in the Spirit within me, I know I can strive with all of my being to be holy and will ultimately be completely perfect and holy when Yeshua returns (NOT REALLY BUT OKAY...once He returns you will be but not til then). So I dont need to stay away from the computer etc to not sin, I just need yeshua and the power of the spirit!

So again, im back, and happier and more confident and deeper in a relationship with God than before. Im also more open to hearing and seeing God in everything (like peoples comments and characters etc).

Missed ya too,
Laddie.
told ya budster:D
Praise Jesus!
 
L

Lad

Guest
told ya budster:D
Praise Jesus!
((i still believe its seperate to salvation, but that doesnt matter lol all that matters is that im living spirit-filled))
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
((i still believe its seperate to salvation, but that doesnt matter lol all that matters is that im living spirit-filled))
i can see your joy, Lad:)
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
((i still believe its seperate to salvation, but that doesnt matter lol all that matters is that im living spirit-filled))
:) that is wonderful to hear. May you continue to grow and diligently seek maturity in Christ :)

2 Peter 1

2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.
10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest

Colossians 2:16-17
, the apostle Paul declares “Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.
Romans 14:5 “One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.

If you want to keep the Sabbath, it's okay. But if you don't that's fine too.

This is how I stand, without any intent of offending somebody's faith about the sabbath :
Jews kept the sabbath as a remembrance of God resting after creating all things. It was not a day of worship only, but of rest, even buying or selling things that day was prohibited and deserving of death. Jews at that time had to work to gain God's favor, and the sabbath was the day of rest for them after offering sacrifices and doing labor in the law.
When Jesus died in the cross He already gave us rest, so there is no need of sabbath. I could say He is my sabbath, because He is my rest. I no longer need to labor to gain my justification after God. We must worship God everyday, but the rest we already have it.:)


Amen. "We must worship God everyday, but the rest we already have it." Praise God and His majesty!

 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
Keyam77, Grandpa, how is it that you are blind to what Paul is saying? You both are declaring that Paul is talking against to written Word of God, He was a hardcore Torah keeper as well as Yeshua. Paul would NEVER speak against Torah, God would not go against His own Word, He is not a man and people like you two need to stop putting Him in the same defiled mind as man. Paul was talking about the Perushim, because even with Sabbath, since breaking it in the OT was a punishment by death, and now God is "oh I don't care anymore, do what you want" Then how can God's judgement be righteous? So it is you guys that are wrong. '
Malachi 3:6 "I am the Lord your God and I do not Change"
ahh I see the problem. :) maybe? lol.

I believe people need to repent and turn from ALL sin and believe in their hearts they are broken sinners never able to fulfill the law on their own. they must know godly sorrow and be brought to repentance. Repentance for ALL disobedience of any of God's laws and knowing they are judged and condemned.

then they must hear of God's grace and mercy and salvation through Jesus Christ on the Cross for the remission of sins and His resurrection and ascension. They must believe in their hearts unto righteousness and confess with their mouths unto salvation.

If they do not know that they are sinners and they do not reject all sin and do not strive with their whole heart and give it to Christ to be covered with His blood then they do not have the godly sorrow, repentance and belief that saves for they are double minded and unstable people who are adulterous and seek still the world but wants to place God as an idol in their heart and continue in their sin and sprinkle rituals and prayers to season their life with the appearance of holiness but deny the power thereof.

Unless they have a faith that saves in their heart then they are not saved but unbelievers still. If someone thinks sin is ok, then they need to examine their hearts and tear that stronghold of darkness for it wars against the knowledge of God. This is only done through the love and grace of God and it HE who saves us for alone we do not have the power to do anything worthwhile.

Praise GOD For His mercy and His Amazing Grace!

‪Amazing Grace ( My Chains are Gone)‬‏ - YouTube

when they are saved then God sends the Holy Spirit and enables His children to keep His laws and guides them to grow in Christ and mediates when they fall short. but all is done for the Glory of God! if you were saved from the bondage of sin why would you return to it? why would you want to transgress God's law? would you be a pig returning to your vomit?
 
Last edited:

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,236
6,530
113
Today in my reading, I read: "
Jesus said unto him,
Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."
It seems it would benefit all to read and understand what the Master teaches on the subject of law or Torah.
After meditating somewhat on this teaching direct from Jesus, then look and see how the Torah is not a threat to anyone who loves God, rather it is totally a blessing. Actually it is blessing upon blessing.
Also, Jesus is teaching the Torah here. He obeyed it thoroughly for us all who, though we try to be perfect do not quite make perfection without the Hand of God. Thus, obeying Torah is always a blessing, while punishment will come with disobeying Torah. For believers the punishment is always in the sin. Praise God not only with the lips but with all we do, in Jesus Christ's name, amen.
 
L

Lad

Guest
Today in my reading, I read: "
Jesus said unto him,
Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."
It seems it would benefit all to read and understand what the Master teaches on the subject of law or Torah.
After meditating somewhat on this teaching direct from Jesus, then look and see how the Torah is not a threat to anyone who loves God, rather it is totally a blessing. Actually it is blessing upon blessing.
Also, Jesus is teaching the Torah here. He obeyed it thoroughly for us all who, though we try to be perfect do not quite make perfection without the Hand of God. Thus, obeying Torah is always a blessing, while punishment will come with disobeying Torah. For believers the punishment is always in the sin. Praise God not only with the lips but with all we do, in Jesus Christ's name, amen.
Amen. Many christians seem to think Yeshua made up this 'commandment' here as a summary of the entire torah and thereby get rid of the rest. What they dont realise is that this 'summary' is straight out of Deuteronomy.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,236
6,530
113
Today in my reading, I read: "
Jesus said unto him,
Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."
It seems it would benefit all to read and understand what the Master teaches on the subject of law or Torah.
After meditating somewhat on this teaching direct from Jesus, then look and see how the Torah is not a threat to anyone who loves God, rather it is totally a blessing. Actually it is blessing upon blessing.
Also, Jesus is teaching the Torah here. He obeyed it thoroughly for us all who, though we try to be perfect do not quite make perfection without the Hand of God. Thus, obeying Torah is always a blessing, while punishment will come with disobeying Torah. For believers the punishment is always in the sin. Praise God not only with the lips but with all we do, in Jesus Christ's name, amen.
Why did I not include the admonishment of Christ concerning the Torah. Here is what our Master, Lord and God has to say about not keeping Torah, and I believe for those who believe Jesus this should settle everything:
"
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
"
It really is a blessing to obey in the great gift of Love................
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,189
113
The things you folks say about Torah are spot on. They are a blessing to keep. But have you tried? The Lord Jesus says that if a man looks at a woman and lusts after her in his mind he has sinned. If you covet after cars, or houses or anything else your neighbor may have in his driveway you have sinned. If you desire to compete and to win, you have sinned. Whenever your flesh wants something and you think about it, sin. We are flesh, it is inevitable. But you know what happens when you try not to do these things??? You realize, WHOA, I can't do this on my own. I need a, a, a, SAVIOUR. *Ding Ding Ding* The whole bible points you toward this SAVIOUR. As long as we are flesh we will have a natural instinct to sin. The bible says that the flesh is enmity against God and that the law of the spirit cannot govern the flesh. WE have always needed a SAVIOUR because the flesh is weak. Thank you Jesus for saving me.

God Bless You
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,236
6,530
113
The things you folks say about Torah are spot on. They are a blessing to keep. But have you tried? The Lord Jesus says that if a man looks at a woman and lusts after her in his mind he has sinned. If you covet after cars, or houses or anything else your neighbor may have in his driveway you have sinned. If you desire to compete and to win, you have sinned. Whenever your flesh wants something and you think about it, sin. We are flesh, it is inevitable. But you know what happens when you try not to do these things??? You realize, WHOA, I can't do this on my own. I need a, a, a, SAVIOUR. *Ding Ding Ding* The whole bible points you toward this SAVIOUR. As long as we are flesh we will have a natural instinct to sin. The bible says that the flesh is enmity against God and that the law of the spirit cannot govern the flesh. WE have always needed a SAVIOUR because the flesh is weak. Thank you Jesus for saving me.

God Bless You
What you say is true, yet it is not a crime to obey, nor is the Torah tossed in the bucket, it is extant. The Torah is a contract, and because no man can abide by it perfectly we have the Grace clause; His name is Jesus, or, if you will, Yeshua.
 
L

Lad

Guest
The things you folks say about Torah are spot on. They are a blessing to keep. But have you tried? The Lord Jesus says that if a man looks at a woman and lusts after her in his mind he has sinned. If you covet after cars, or houses or anything else your neighbor may have in his driveway you have sinned. If you desire to compete and to win, you have sinned. Whenever your flesh wants something and you think about it, sin. We are flesh, it is inevitable. But you know what happens when you try not to do these things??? You realize, WHOA, I can't do this on my own. I need a, a, a, SAVIOUR. *Ding Ding Ding* The whole bible points you toward this SAVIOUR. As long as we are flesh we will have a natural instinct to sin. The bible says that the flesh is enmity against God and that the law of the spirit cannot govern the flesh. WE have always needed a SAVIOUR because the flesh is weak. Thank you Jesus for saving me.

God Bless You
Sweet as, lemme just shove my bible in the bin and rely completely on my saviour. After all I dont need his words if I cant keep them!
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
The things you folks say about Torah are spot on. They are a blessing to keep. But have you tried? The Lord Jesus says that if a man looks at a woman and lusts after her in his mind he has sinned. If you covet after cars, or houses or anything else your neighbor may have in his driveway you have sinned. If you desire to compete and to win, you have sinned. Whenever your flesh wants something and you think about it, sin. We are flesh, it is inevitable. But you know what happens when you try not to do these things??? You realize, WHOA, I can't do this on my own. I need a, a, a, SAVIOUR. *Ding Ding Ding* The whole bible points you toward this SAVIOUR. As long as we are flesh we will have a natural instinct to sin. The bible says that the flesh is enmity against God and that the law of the spirit cannot govern the flesh. WE have always needed a SAVIOUR because the flesh is weak. Thank you Jesus for saving me.

God Bless You
Sinful flesh has no desire to keep God's Law
Romans 8:7
(7) Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.


We need a new nature with new desires
John 3:3
(3) Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

2 Peter 1:3-4
(3) According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
(4) Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.


By surrendering to Him we become partakers of the divine nature we are given new desires and new principles, the old nature stays with us till Jesus returns but by daily surrender to Him we can be overcomers.
Romans 6:16
(16) Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Luke 9:23
(23) And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

1 Corinthians 15:31
(31) I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.





 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
Sinful flesh has no desire to keep God's Law
Romans 8:7
(7) Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.


We need a new nature with new desires
John 3:3
(3) Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

2 Peter 1:3-4
(3) According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
(4) Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.


By surrendering to Him we become partakers of the divine nature we are given new desires and new principles, the old nature stays with us till Jesus returns but by daily surrender to Him we can be overcomers.
Romans 6:16
(16) Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Luke 9:23
(23) And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

1 Corinthians 15:31
(31) I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
Romans 4
Abraham Justified by Faith
1What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? 2For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” 4Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. 5And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, 6just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:

7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
and whose sins are covered;
8 blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.”

9Is this blessing then only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We say that faith was counted to Abraham as righteousness. 10How then was it counted to him? Was it before or after he had been circumcised? It was not after, but before he was circumcised. 11He received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. The purpose was to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised, so that righteousness would be counted to them as well, 12and to make him the father of the circumcised who are not merely circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.

The Promise Realized Through Faith
13For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith. 14For if it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void. 15For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression.

16That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring—not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all, 17as it is written, “I have made you the father of many nations”—in the presence of the God in whom he believed, who gives life to the dead and calls into existence the things that do not exist. 18In hope he believed against hope, that he should become the father of many nations, as he had been told, “So shall your offspring be.” 19He did not weaken in faith when he considered his own body, which was as good as dead (since he was about a hundred years old), or when he considered the barrenness of Sarah’s womb. 20No distrust made him waver concerning the promise of God, but he grew strong in his faith as he gave glory to God, 21fully convinced that God was able to do what he had promised. 22That is why his faith was “counted to him as righteousness.” 23But the words “it was counted to him” were not written for his sake alone, 24but for ours also. It will be counted to us who believe in him who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord, 25who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.
 
Last edited:

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,189
113
Sweet as, lemme just shove my bible in the bin and rely completely on my saviour. After all I dont need his words if I cant keep them!
Thats not what I was saying. I love the bible. I love the old testament, especially the first five books. Well Leviticus is a bit rough if I can be perfectly honest... But it has a lot of really good stuff in there too.

You can know Jesus even better by reading your bible. You can see that He was prophesied about all throughout the o.t. You can see Him in the Temple, You can see Him in the Ark, You can see Him in Joseph. Types and shadows...

Not to mention the gospels. My favorite being John, the apostle in whom Jesus loved.

How can you rely on someone you don't know? I don't think you can. Know Him. I see t-shirts that say that. Know Him.

God Bless You
 
Mar 2, 2010
537
3
0
Thats not what I was saying. I love the bible. I love the old testament, especially the first five books. Well Leviticus is a bit rough if I can be perfectly honest... But it has a lot of really good stuff in there too.

You can know Jesus even better by reading your bible. You can see that He was prophesied about all throughout the o.t. You can see Him in the Temple, You can see Him in the Ark, You can see Him in Joseph. Types and shadows...

Not to mention the gospels. My favorite being John, the apostle in whom Jesus loved.

How can you rely on someone you don't know? I don't think you can. Know Him. I see t-shirts that say that. Know Him.

God Bless You
Leviticus "has a lot of really good stuff in there too"? Maybe you want to rephrase that so that it doesn't sound like you cherry-pick.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,189
113
Leviticus "has a lot of really good stuff in there too"? Maybe you want to rephrase that so that it doesn't sound like you cherry-pick.
Cherry pick. Good one. I didn't mean to cherry pick Leviticus. I apologize. I meant that Leviticus is hard for me to read but that it has lots of critically important information.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
Leviticus "has a lot of really good stuff in there too"? Maybe you want to rephrase that so that it doesn't sound like you cherry-pick.
what? coming from mr.cherry-picker?



come on distinctive!
a guy says he struggled in leviticus and you got him the rack but you want us to have a New Perspective on Paul (and John and maybe Isaiah)??
 
J

Jewliahr

Guest
Reading through this thread I have been blessed and nauseated. So much truth then such confrontation between brothers and sisters. *Its human instinct that we all want to be correct, but God is the only one who is correct here! Galatians 5:25-26
25If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

We all believe in Jesus/Yeshua as our Lord, right? God wants us all to believe the same thing, right? (read Psalm 133 and Ephesians 4!). How can we get to this point? This is breaking my heart!