King James Bible ONLY? Or NOT?

[Rockrz]

thank God for family in Him, who can steer me away from the pitfalls of knowledge and understanding

It all depend on the source of the "knowledge" and "understanding"

It's being naive to not understand that satan seeks to corrupt the information people get to steer them away from God's knowledge and wisdom

The world is not coming closer to the Lord... the vast majority of society is being led by devils and those that have no discernment will be sucked into this darkness and it'll be made to look as though it's the right thing to do and the devil will make sure scripture is being used just like he used scripture to attempt to deceive Jesus

 

[notmyown]

isn't teaching a gift of the Spirit?

to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for the building up of the body of Christ?

 

[Rockrz]

isn't teaching a gift of the Spirit?

to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for the building up of the body of Christ?

Yes, and the knowledge and wisdom being taught should be coming from God's point of view... not man's

 

[posthuman]

God sent "THE Teacher" the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ to lead and guide into all Truth, God's Word IS Truth...

are you saying the Holy Spirit teaches you to reject knowledge?
the Spirit of God has set His face against education?

if Jesus is the Truth - and edification is growing in the knowledge of the truth - why do you listen to a spirit that tears down the very thing it should be built up in?

where are the scriptures that say 'do not study, do not gain knowledge, do not respect those who have gained wisdom, do not seek out understanding' ? where's your scriptural justification if you walk out a Bible study group because 'those guys seem to know the scriptures too well - let's find someone who doesn't know what they're talking about; surely we'll be more blessed if we don't use our brains' ?

 

[Angela53510]

Ok, I'll explain a little better.

KJV --- followed on from the current texts through 7 years of 50 or 52? Scholars from around the world, who's lives were the church. And not just intellectual part-timers.

Yes their are flaws in the KJV. But mostly insignificant (camel / rope etc).

No the KJV ----- WAS NOT MADE AFTER 1600 YEARS. As previous CROWN versions existed before. The KJV was re-edited and translated because of the separation of the Catholic church and the royal family. The Catholic church altered the translation. And the Catholic translation of truth and altered, were printed in the same documents side by side in different languages. Showing the falsities.

Also, if you don't understand the English of old, that's not my fault. That actually says you don't see the problem. Because you don't understand it right?

And then theirs the NEW CONVERT, NEW BELIEVER. If a believer reads the new translated Bibles (not buying and studying everything etc), the top sellers make Jesus Christ the son of Joseph, they say He, the morning star has fallen as Lucifer. They remove the requirement of faith in Christ for salvation from PHILEMON.

THESE ARE NOT MINOR TRANSLATION ISSUES.

But yes, KJV should be like for like updated for better reading. Maybe you would know what I was talking about then.

The issue is a Bible for believers, and not just it's accuracy. If all are inaccurate, but most change the meaning of salvation, the believer believes the WRONG GOSPEL. AND IS NOT SAVED.

That's what is important. But yes I would like a perfect translation. But, when I've just picked up a new Amplified Bible and read about 5 plus verses and find this:

Matthew 24:30
And throw out the worthless servant into the outer darkness; in that place of (of grief and torment) there will be weeping (over sorrow and pain) and grinding of teeth ( OVER DISTRESS AND ANGER).

OVER DISTRESS AND ANGER? What are they talking about. Gnashing of teeth in KJV implies physical pain and damage. Not I'm angry and distressed I'll grind my teeth.

You see the issue?

So your issue is not the translation, it is the gospel? You think only the KJV presents the gospel? This is going to take a while, but here are some comparisons of different versions of

1 Cor. 15:1-7

NIV
"Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved,if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born."

ESV
"Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand,2 and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles."

The Message (A paraphrase!)
"1-2 Friends, let me go over the Message with you one final time— this Message that I proclaimed and that you made your own; this Message on which you took your stand and by which your life has been saved. (I’m assuming, now, that your belief was the real thing and not a passing fancy, that you’re in this for good and holding fast.)
3-9 The first thing I did was place before you what was placed so emphatically before me: that the Messiah died for our sins, exactly as Scripture tells it; that he was buried; that he was raised from death on the third day, again exactly as Scripture says; that he presented himself alive to Peter, then to his closest followers, and later to more than five hundred of his followers all at the same time, most of them still around (although a few have since died); that he then spent time with James and the rest of those he commissioned to represent him; and that he finally presented himself alive to me. It was fitting that I bring up the rear. I don’t deserve to be included in that inner circle, as you well know, having spent all those early years trying my best to stamp God’s church right out of existence."
KJV
"15 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles."



The way I see the above comparisons, is that the gospel is identical. No one has changed the truth of who Jesus is, that he came to die for our sins, that he was resurrected and seen by his disciples, then 500 and then Paul and James! Even the Message has the same gospel in its paraphrase.

In fact, the only real difference I can see, is that KJV has a bunch of words we don't use anymore, which makes it harder to understand what it is talking about. Again, my reason for being against a version which is written in a language from 400 years ago.

You may be right about Matt 24:30 being different in the KJV. Here is what ESV says:

"Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." Matt 24:30 ESV


Maybe Matt 13:42? Let's see what the major versions say:

NIV
"They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

HCSB
"They will throw them into the blazing furnace where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

NASB
"and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Hmm, lots of gnashing of teeth in all those modern versions! Not sure what verse or what version you are talking about.


Here is the Greek, just for fun! (I always find it interesting when a word like teeth "odonton"is so similar to the Romance languages. Tooth in French is "dent."

"καὶ βαλοῦσιν αὐτοὺς εἰς τὴν κάμινον τοῦ πυρός· ἐκεῖ ἔσται ὁ κλαυθμὸς καὶ ὁ βρυγμὸς τῶν ὀδόντων."

I confess, I do fail totally to see your issue. Try and get the verse references right, and maybe getting the format your posts a bit better. But, no! You are still trying to prove KJV is better because it has flowery language, and then you use an example that is the same in most modern versions? No wonder what you are saying doesn't make sense! Then there are those straw men that make utterly no sense.......

 

[posthuman]

Yes, and the knowledge and wisdom being taught should be coming from God's point of view... not man's

so how about we embrace & respect actual Bible study instead of dismissing it out of hand as though it's "worldly" ?

especially since the alternative is exactly what you warn about: you, yourself, relying on your own willfully ignorant, human, uneducated and uncritical personal interpretations and opinions?

which is ((back to the OP)) not unlike defending the KJV as 'mostest and perfectlyest accurate' without ever actually looking at the Greek or Hebrew to see if it is actually the right translation?
instead using an unexamined human interpretation of an unexamined human translation to confirm that the unexamined human understanding of the unexamined text is accurate?

 

[Angela53510]

There's the problem. Angela, you are your own final authority on what God has said. Scholarship has educated you right out of your belief in the word of God.

With all your scholarship and education, why don't you just go through the entire Bible, correct all the errors, and give us a Bible that is 100% trustworthy?

Let's see, you are judging and condemning me for believing in the Bible? When I totally and absolutely believe every word, from the day I was saved over 37 years ago?

I was reading a modern Catholic Bible when I got saved (NAB). I loved it, because sinner and unsaved person that I was, I could understand the English. I read it after I was saved, and even it didn't have anything wrong, except the wrong footnotes, which is why I went to NASB, finally, which was a more wooden translation, although it certainly didn't hurt me reading it for 25 years before I went to seminary. (Yes, I studied the Bible daily before I went to seminary!)

I read the Greek, because I do want to know and understand the Bible more. But, I still read in my heart language, which is modern English, because that is the language God speaks to me. Although occasionally, God has spoken to me of with a Scripture in Greek, then confirmed it in English that same day! Last year, it was Matt 6. We were translating it in Greek, and I was reading it in my HCSB- plus, a book I was reading on the Sermon on the Mount was in the same passage. The Holy Spirit is amazing that way.

The fact is, we are imperfect beings. Only Jesus is perfect. The original autographs were perfect, but God allowed them to become lost till ?? Or forever! So all we have are copies.

God did NOT reach down in the 16th century and suddenly take 7 corrupt manuscripts and make a perfect translation, especially not with a King who had his own ideas about what the Bible should say. We have some terrible Bible traditions coming directly from the mouth of King James, not the Bible.

There is no perfect version. But there is a perfect God and Holy Spirit, who opens up the Word of God, in any language, and any non-cultic translation, and speaks to us of salvation and sanctification. I follow Jesus, not a Bible.

But I do find it funny the way you, John, and Dai, the OP, are two timing me on this education thing.

Dai says I am not educated enough, because I will not watch his silly youtube video. John says I am too educated, and I don't believe in the Word of God!

Which is it, gentlemen? Am I too educated, or not educated enough?

Am I following Jesus with all my strength, soul, mind and strength on the basis of what God has shown me in his Word, over 37 years, in 4 languages, or has God cast me aside because I reject that the KJV is not the ONLY Bible?

John and Dai, and any others, feel free to read the KJV, if you think it gives you comfort and nurture. I would never try and tear a favourite Bible translation away from someone's heart! But, I think I will continue to love and serve God, using Greek, English and Hebrew, in various translations. God has always met me in his Word, and I know he will continue to meet me!

 

[Rockrz]

so how about we embrace & respect actual Bible study instead of dismissing it out of hand as though it's "worldly" ?

Who said studying God's Word is worldly???

I don't recall reading any post where someone said that.

 

[preacher4truth]

Any person showing disdain for study, for gaining Biblical knowledge and things along those lines has little clue to what Scripture says about the subject. It is apparent such persons have missed much of what Scripture says. They also tend to read things into the text that are not there instead of getting their teachings from the text, clear things they simply cannot see. It is really remarkable to behold how oblivious to this many people are. Wow.

 

[Grandpa]

Let's see, you are judging and condemning me for believing in the Bible? When I totally and absolutely believe every word, from the day I was saved over 37 years ago?

I was reading a modern Catholic Bible when I got saved (NAB). I loved it, because sinner and unsaved person that I was, I could understand the English. I read it after I was saved, and even it didn't have anything wrong, except the wrong footnotes, which is why I went to NASB, finally, which was a more wooden translation, although it certainly didn't hurt me reading it for 25 years before I went to seminary. (Yes, I studied the Bible daily before I went to seminary!)

I read the Greek, because I do want to know and understand the Bible more. But, I still read in my heart language, which is modern English, because that is the language God speaks to me. Although occasionally, God has spoken to me of with a Scripture in Greek, then confirmed it in English that same day! Last year, it was Matt 6. We were translating it in Greek, and I was reading it in my HCSB- plus, a book I was reading on the Sermon on the Mount was in the same passage. The Holy Spirit is amazing that way.

The fact is, we are imperfect beings. Only Jesus is perfect. The original autographs were perfect, but God allowed them to become lost till ?? Or forever! So all we have are copies.

God did NOT reach down in the 16th century and suddenly take 7 corrupt manuscripts and make a perfect translation, especially not with a King who had his own ideas about what the Bible should say. We have some terrible Bible traditions coming directly from the mouth of King James, not the Bible.

There is no perfect version. But there is a perfect God and Holy Spirit, who opens up the Word of God, in any language, and any non-cultic translation, and speaks to us of salvation and sanctification. I follow Jesus, not a Bible.

But I do find it funny the way you, John, and Dai, the OP, are two timing me on this education thing.

Dai says I am not educated enough, because I will not watch his silly youtube video. John says I am too educated, and I don't believe in the Word of God!

Which is it, gentlemen? Am I too educated, or not educated enough?

Am I following Jesus with all my strength, soul, mind and strength on the basis of what God has shown me in his Word, over 37 years, in 4 languages, or has God cast me aside because I reject that the KJV is not the ONLY Bible?

John and Dai, and any others, feel free to read the KJV, if you think it gives you comfort and nurture. I would never try and tear a favourite Bible translation away from someone's heart! But, I think I will continue to love and serve God, using Greek, English and Hebrew, in various translations. God has always met me in his Word, and I know he will continue to meet me!

My grandmother was Catholic and I got her bibles when she passed away.

One of them was a NASB with the apocrypha. I compared some of the verses with the kjv and I was able to understand more completely sometimes because of the different wording.

Maybe it was a ESV. But I thought it was an NASB. There are so many its sometimes hard to keep track. Is the ESV a Catholic bible? I really don't know.

 

[preacher4truth]

There's the problem. Angela, you are your own final authority on what God has said. Scholarship has educated you right out of your belief in the word of God.

With all your scholarship and education, why don't you just go through the entire Bible, correct all the errors, and give us a Bible that is 100% trustworthy?

No, Angela isn't her own final authority, you are just taking opportunity to slander her. That, and believe it or not there are many translation problems in the various Bibles we have - none of them affecting major doctrine.

The glorifying of ignorance as if to be so is to be spiritual is something to behold. No wonder the world mocks believers, a huge number of them believe being benighted is godly.

 

[Rockrz]

Any person showing disdain for study, for gaining Biblical knowledge and things along those lines has little clue to what Scripture says about the subject. It is apparent such persons have missed much of what Scripture says. They also tend to read things into the text that are not there instead of getting their teachings from the text, clear things they simply cannot see. It is really remarkable to behold how oblivious to this many people are. Wow.

And to further ad to your amazement... many claiming to be Christian get their knowledge and understanding from sources other than God's Word and when they do read God's Word it's one of the newer translations that changes and omits what God actually said.

But, God told us this would be happening in the end times... so this should be no surprise.

 

[Desdichado]

Erasmus would be horrified people view the Textus Receptus the way they do.

 

[Angela53510]

Yes. The error being taught in seminaries is apparent when compared with God's Word.

Carnal, man-made religion is not of God and is leading the masses into the coming one world religion where all religions are said to be serving the same god... and sadly, lots of Christians are falling right in to this sort of thing having no discernment.

Education in general is leading the masses away from a personal relationship with God.

Well, I know you have me on ignore, but feel free to open up this post and respond.

So, I would like to say, that some seminaries are apostate, and do not teach the Word of God as truth. I don't understand personally why anyone would want to go to advanced studies of the Bible, when they don't believe in it, but there you have it. I know there are mainline denominational seminaries who are like this.

I know that there are also seminaries who are moving away from believing the truth of God's Word. I took a few transfer courses for my degree in a local seminary, and I heard later that a good portion of the professors were well on the way to perdition. Didn't believe in basics like Jesus being born of a virgin, or creation, or many other things. I attended a church in that denomination, and we were very orthodox and Biblical, so it was a surprise to me! And fortunately, as usual, God was with me, and the two courses I took were by orthodox sessional instructors, one a full time pastor, the other a missionary to Indonesia. I learned so much from them.

My seminary was Southern Baptist, and it was the WORD OF GOD which was taught! And there were people from almost every denomination attending, even charismatics, Anglicans, Lutherans, Mennonites and of course, Baptists of every shade, because of the reputation of the seminary in teaching the true Word of God. But, fortunately enough for me, open enough for me to explore God's calling on my life as a woman, even if I was not allowed to preach in a church for preaching! LOL

Seminary was a place of great blessing, and digging deeper into the Word of God. I had a hunger for God that continues to this day. I met like minded people, with a heart for the lost, to spread the gospel, and to minister and care for God's people using the Bible as our basis for everything!

So, I agree if you do not check out the reputation of a seminary, you can end up in a terrible, apostate situation. I praise God that he just led and directed me, and it was the place I needed to be to learn his Word, and to know that Christ is the way, the truth and the life, and the ONLY way truth and the life.

So, for those who uphold the KJV as the ONLY way, they might be a bit confused. It is JESUS who is the one who is the way, the truth and the life. And he is revealed in the Bible!


So, I don't take it personally, that some of you have never met someone who has gone to a Bible believing seminary. But, they do exist, and God uses them to confirm and teach his Word, on a level not posssible elsewhere. Especially internet videos!

 

[preacher4truth]

Let's see, you are judging and condemning me for believing in the Bible? When I totally and absolutely believe every word, from the day I was saved over 37 years ago?

I was reading a modern Catholic Bible when I got saved (NAB). I loved it, because sinner and unsaved person that I was, I could understand the English. I read it after I was saved, and even it didn't have anything wrong, except the wrong footnotes, which is why I went to NASB, finally, which was a more wooden translation, although it certainly didn't hurt me reading it for 25 years before I went to seminary. (Yes, I studied the Bible daily before I went to seminary!)

I read the Greek, because I do want to know and understand the Bible more. But, I still read in my heart language, which is modern English, because that is the language God speaks to me. Although occasionally, God has spoken to me of with a Scripture in Greek, then confirmed it in English that same day! Last year, it was Matt 6. We were translating it in Greek, and I was reading it in my HCSB- plus, a book I was reading on the Sermon on the Mount was in the same passage. The Holy Spirit is amazing that way.

The fact is, we are imperfect beings. Only Jesus is perfect. The original autographs were perfect, but God allowed them to become lost till ?? Or forever! So all we have are copies.

God did NOT reach down in the 16th century and suddenly take 7 corrupt manuscripts and make a perfect translation, especially not with a King who had his own ideas about what the Bible should say. We have some terrible Bible traditions coming directly from the mouth of King James, not the Bible.

There is no perfect version. But there is a perfect God and Holy Spirit, who opens up the Word of God, in any language, and any non-cultic translation, and speaks to us of salvation and sanctification. I follow Jesus, not a Bible.

But I do find it funny the way you, John, and Dai, the OP, are two timing me on this education thing.

Dai says I am not educated enough, because I will not watch his silly youtube video. John says I am too educated, and I don't believe in the Word of God!

Which is it, gentlemen? Am I too educated, or not educated enough?

Am I following Jesus with all my strength, soul, mind and strength on the basis of what God has shown me in his Word, over 37 years, in 4 languages, or has God cast me aside because I reject that the KJV is not the ONLY Bible?

John and Dai, and any others, feel free to read the KJV, if you think it gives you comfort and nurture. I would never try and tear a favourite Bible translation away from someone's heart! But, I think I will continue to love and serve God, using Greek, English and Hebrew, in various translations. God has always met me in his Word, and I know he will continue to meet me!

Angela, the above only happens when one casts their pearls and what is holy out there. Keep on keeping on sister.

 

[Rockrz]

My seminary was Southern Baptist, and it was the WORD OF GOD which was taught!

Lemma guess... they taught you "once saved, always saved", right?

The Word of God does not teach that and if it was a baptist organization they most likely taught this as almost all baptists do!

Long before I ever got saved, I went to school with kids that did all sort of bad stuff that were "good baptists" who webt to church regularly and thought they were saved in spite of living in open sin and they said that once someone gets saved it matters not what they do cause... they gonna go to Heaven anyway.

Before I knew anything about God, I knew that was bogus!

if you do not check out the reputation of a seminary

They change and become apostate very rapidly these days...

 

[Grandpa]

Erasmus would be horrified people view the Textus Receptus the way they do.

Is that one of the Three Musketeers?

Didn't know he was a theologian too... Jack of all trades...

 

[posthuman]

Lemma guess... they taught you "once saved, always saved", right?

The Word of God does not teach that

And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
I and my Father are one.
(John 10:28-30 KJV)​

 

[posthuman]

Erasmus would be horrified people view the Textus Receptus the way they do.

okay, given the shared previous "Mr. Anderson" reference, i'm really curious now --

-- am i the only one who thinks of a tremendously insidious & repugnant, sentient robot doing experiments on humans every time i see the name "Erasmus" ?





((in re: Dune, The Machine Wars))

 

[preacher4truth]

Some need to cease and desist their assault on the biblical doctrine of OSAS and concern themselves rather with whether they are even saved at all.