King James Bible ONLY? Or NOT?

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trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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Here link below is the history of candles:
The History of Candles | NCA
Candles facts, information, pictures | Encyclopedia.com articles about Candles
"One of the earliest forms of portable illumination, candles have served vital functions for humankind throughout history, a fact chronicled through the discovery of candles or candle-like objects in virtually every society. Historians believe the original candle may have been invented by primitive men who dipped dried branches in animal fat, thus producing a slow-burning and reliable source of light. Reliefs belonging to the ancient Egyptians depict the use of candles by writers and philosophers who worked well after sundown. These early candles were most likely developed from tapers that were made of fibrous materials mixed with wax or tallow (the white, nearly tasteless fat of cattle or sheep that was also used to make soap, margarine, and lubricants). As far back as 3000 b.c., dish-shaped candles were used on the island of Crete."

Yet the contention is not about the "candles" but "candlestick". For the record many Bible versions has translated it as ”candlestick” so it is not a mistake of the KJV, I think but still figuring this candle stick is all about. Thanks.
There is a reason why every other translation (you can check on biblehub.com) uses lamp instead of "candle". Jews did not use candles.
 

notbythesword

Senior Member
Apr 28, 2015
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There is a reason why every other translation (you can check on biblehub.com) uses lamp instead of "candle". Jews did not use candles.
Exodus 25:31 is talking about a “menorah”, not a candlestick. Simply search for a menorah in an image search and you can see what it is. Even within context, it would make no sense to make a “candlestick” of pure gold, rather than a lampstand. KJV has this wrong, plain and simple.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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Exodus 25:31 is talking about a “menorah”, not a candlestick. Simply search for a menorah in an image search and you can see what it is. Even within context, it would make no sense to make a “candlestick” of pure gold, rather than a lampstand. KJV has this wrong, plain and simple.
The “candlestick” was not the actual candle itself, but was the stand that was composed of 7 branches, a shaft, knops and bowls in which was placed oil that burned and was referred to as a “lamp”. Obviously we are not referring to “electrical” lamps, but rather the extended meaning of both “lamps” and “candles” which is simply any kind of artificial light.

"No man, when he hath lighted A CANDLE, covereth it with a vessel, or putteth it under a bed; but setteth it on A CANDLESTICK, that they which enter in may see the light." Luke 8:16
 

notbythesword

Senior Member
Apr 28, 2015
305
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The “candlestick” was not the actual candle itself, but was the stand that was composed of 7 branches, a shaft, knops and bowls in which was placed oil that burned and was referred to as a “lamp”. Obviously we are not referring to “electrical” lamps, but rather the extended meaning of both “lamps” and “candles” which is simply any kind of artificial light.

"No man, when he hath lighted A CANDLE, covereth it with a vessel, or putteth it under a bed; but setteth it on A CANDLESTICK, that they which enter in may see the light." Luke 8:16
Are you saying that you think that the KJV has it right?
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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God certainly knew how the bible was going to be translated into the various major versions, all have been spiritually inspired written and reliable.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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These side notes given as alternate readings were actually rejected words by the KJ Translators, evidently as explain in John Bois Notes.

God bless
I'll check that assertion when I have time, but my first impression is that it is simply illogical, for they would have rejected many readings in favour of the ones they chose.


We don't have many Versions of the KJV. We have only KJV but we have Editions of the KJV.

God bless
That is playing with semantics, but I'll play along to show how silly it is... which is the inspired "edition" of the KJV?


... Yet the contention is not about the "candles" but "candlestick". For the record many Bible versions has translated it as ”candlestick” so it is not a mistake of the KJV, I think but still figuring this candle stick is all about. Thanks.
On the one hand, you claim that the KJV has everything else correct and other versions are incorrect, now you are claiming that because other versions say "candlestick" that the KJV is therefore correct? That is poor logic.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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I bet, I have to disagree with these findings, the knowledge, tools and sources which are available today are not far better.
Perhaps you should have clarified what I meant by "far better and more numerous" before attempting to refute it. There were perhaps dozens of manuscript copies available in the early 1600's. Now there are over 5500... far more numerous.

Most of those manuscripts have been made available in digital form and are available to both scholars and the public... far better.

The advent of personal computers and software now allows comparison of multiple versions, including manuscripts, at one's fingertips... far better.

The availability of language tools, including lexicons, concordances, multiple translations in multiple languages, commentaries
and the like, all enhance our ability to understand the text... far better AND more numerous

The Granville Sharp construction was unknown in 1611. It was identified several centuries later... far better.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
4,844
389
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The “candlestick” was not the actual candle itself, but was the stand that was composed of 7 branches, a shaft, knops and bowls in which was placed oil that burned and was referred to as a “lamp”. Obviously we are not referring to “electrical” lamps, but rather the extended meaning of both “lamps” and “candles” which is simply any kind of artificial light.

"No man, when he hath lighted A CANDLE, covereth it with a vessel, or putteth it under a bed; but setteth it on A CANDLESTICK, that they which enter in may see the light." Luke 8:16
"Candlestick" is the wrong word. It's called an "anachronism" on the part of the KJV translators... taking a current term and applying it to a situation which is analogous but distinct. If the Levites didn't use candles, they didn't call the stand a candlestick; that term would have little or no meaning to them. It's a lampstand... a stand, for oil-fed lamps. Even today the two terms are distinct.
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
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What's the difference between a lamp stand and a candlestick?
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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I'll check that assertion when I have time, but my first impression is that it is simply illogical, for they would have rejected many readings in favour of the ones they chose.




That is playing with semantics, but I'll play along to show how silly it is... which is the inspired "edition" of the KJV?



On the one hand, you claim that the KJV has everything else correct and other versions are incorrect, now you are claiming that because other versions say "candlestick" that the KJV is therefore correct? That is poor logic.
Is this logic that wishes to correct God's word? A logic that put words in other's mouth? In this instance of the 'candlestick' where I didn't claim the KJV alone has all the correct translation and all others are incorrect. If I am going to play the same game/ argument your buddies used in here maybe you are arguing into some ignorance... sorry to tell you this because other versions has it. The Living Bible has it. The Upadated Bible Version has it. The Complete Jewish Bible has it. The Modern English Version has it and many more.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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Exodus 25:31 is talking about a “menorah”, not a candlestick. Simply search for a menorah in an image search and you can see what it is. Even within context, it would make no sense to make a “candlestick” of pure gold, rather than a lampstand. KJV has this wrong, plain and simple.
Would you further explain the text why "menorah" is not a "candlestick"? and this is the error of the KJV?

Thanks
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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There is a reason why every other translation (you can check on biblehub.com) uses lamp instead of "candle". Jews did not use candles.
Yea, but I am talking about the candlesticks not really the candle. Just because the Jews did not use candles, that it is imposible for the Holy Spirit to used it in the Bible. Are we not limiting God? What is a lamp anyway? Courd you further discussed this one. I have submitted my report. It's your turn...

Thanks
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
1,758
24
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Perhaps you should have clarified what I meant by "far better and more numerous" before attempting to refute it. There were perhaps dozens of manuscript copies available in the early 1600's. Now there are over 5500... far more numerous.

Most of those manuscripts have been made available in digital form and are available to both scholars and the public... far better.

The advent of personal computers and software now allows comparison of multiple versions, including manuscripts, at one's fingertips... far better.

The availability of language tools, including lexicons, concordances, multiple translations in multiple languages, commentaries
and the like, all enhance our ability to understand the text... far better AND more numerous

The Granville Sharp construction was unknown in 1611. It was identified several centuries later... far better.
They are far better for what?

I have already have God's Word, what still I need? We already have numerous Bible versions which are too confusing...then you are saying far better to what? to alter, change, emend, modify?

Thanks
 

slave

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2015
5,955
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We don't have many Versions of the KJV. We have only KJV but we have Editions of the KJV.

God bless
Version: a particular form of something differing in certain respects from an earlier form of the same type of thing. Editions are renderings; they are versions. God Bless.
 

slave

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2015
5,955
601
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Exodus 25:31 is talking about a “menorah”, not a candlestick. Simply search for a menorah in an image search and you can see what it is. Even within context, it would make no sense to make a “candlestick” of pure gold, rather than a lampstand. KJV has this wrong, plain and simple.
The golden candlestick, like the table of shewbread, was represented on the Arch of Titus. It was composed of a straight stem, rising perpendicularly from a base, and having on either side of it three curved arms or branches, all of them in the same plane, and all rising to the same level. The stem and arms were ornamented with representations of almond flowers, pomegranates, and lily blossoms, repeated as there was room for them, the top ornament being in every case a lily blossom, which held a hemispherical (lamp).

The form and ornamentation of the base are unknown, since the representation of the base upon the Arch of Titus is manifestly from some Roman work which had superseded the original pedestal. The special object of the candlestick seems to have been to give light by night. Its lamps were to be lighted at even (Exodus 30:8
) by the High Priest, and were to burn from evening to morning (Exodus 27:21), when they were to be dressed, or trimmed (Exodus 30:7), and “extinguished." The Holy Place had sufficient light during the day from the entrance, where the curtain would let the light through, if indeed it were not also partially looped up.
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
9,052
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What are the similarities can also be the question!
I think they are two words for the same thing a holder that holds a light source. I'm trying to understand why God had the KJV translators use both lamp and candle. :)
 
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