LEGALSIM...how do you know if your a "legalist"

[Mitspa]

2 Ti 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

2Ti 3:10 ¶ But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, love, patience,
11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.
12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

 

[DesiredHaven]

2Ti 3:10 ¶ But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, love, patience,
11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.
12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

1 Peter 4:3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:

1Peter 4:4 Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:

1 Petr 4:5Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.

 

[Mitspa]

1 Peter 4:3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:

1Peter 4:4 Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:

1 Petr 4:5Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.

1Pe 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

 

[DesiredHaven]

1Pe 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

1 Ti 1:8 But we know that the lawis good, if a man use it lawfully;

1 Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

1 Ti 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

 

[Mitspa]

1 Ti 1:8 But we know that the lawis good, if a man use it lawfully;

1 Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

1 Ti 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Right ...not for the righteous...

Ro 3:19 ¶ Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

 

[Mitspa]

1Ti 1:5 ¶ Now the end of the commandment is love out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: 6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

By the way "unfeigned" means without HYPOCRICY!

Nothing profits but faith working by love.

 

[michael56]

A true born again believer in Christ is not earning anything by trying to be good.
They try to be good out of love for God, and obedience to the Lord and His guidance through the Holy Spirit to show and help us walk in the proper manner. Even thinking that you have to try to be a way is not the way of the Lord, because you would not have to try as it should come naturally. The Holy Spirit that is in us can not sin because it is of the Lord, so with Him working in and through us to where we obey Him instead of self how can it be reasonably to say we will continue to sin everyday. That would mean you are denying the Holy Spirit everyday, as the purpose for Him sent to us was not to just seal us. He was sent to guide and help us to lead us to righteousness unto salvation, not to keep us walking in lewdness.

The bible makes it very clear that a true born again believers outer actions will show a true faith.
If ones actions do not reflect the fruits of the Spirit which Paul clearly gives in Galatians 5 then they are not born again walking in a newness of life (Spirit).
Romans 7 Paul shows how he was when he first heard the word, and Romans 8 shows his complete conversion into a saved mature born again believer into the faith. We can easily see this because in 7 he calls himself carnal, but in 8 he shows he could not stay carnal minded as that leads to death and not eternal life.

I note you did not address the comments made in my post. In Romans 7 Paul is speaking of his life as a Pharisee from verses 7-11 &14-25.
It should come naturally not to sin, no effort(trying needs to be made)? Paul would seem to disagree with you?
For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever[SUP][c][/SUP] you want Gal5:17

However, from your words I assume you do not try, it just comes naturally for you to perfectly obey all of Christ's literal commands in the Gospels.

As Jesus said:

For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Matt7:2

 

[dcontroversal]

Elijah19 said this much better than I could...

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/106105-legalism-doesnt-help-2.html#post1852564

What I said was true so what is your point......taste not, touch not, can't do this, can't do that.....like I said...legalism binds men's hands behind their backs and ties them to religious dogma that has nothing to do with Christ and the freedom found in Christ........so what is your point?

 

[WheresEnoch]

What I said was true so what is your point......taste not, touch not, can't do this, can't do that.....like I said...legalism binds men's hands behind their backs and ties them to religious dogma that has nothing to do with Christ and the freedom found in Christ........so what is your point?

Isn't freedom in Christ freedom from sin and judgement and death?

Not freedom while in slavery to sin.

 

[dcontroversal]

Isn't freedom in Christ freedom from sin and judgement and death?

Not freedom while in slavery to sin.

Have you studied the gospels? The definiton of legalism and the religious dogma that binds men down under the banner of religion that has nothing at all to do with Christ is self evident........

 

[DesiredHaven]

Right ...not for the righteous...

Ro 3:19 ¶ Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Gal 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God?

God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should havebeen by the law.

Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, thatthe promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring usunto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

 

[DesiredHaven]

1Ti 1:5 ¶ Now the end of the commandment is love out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: 6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

By the way "unfeigned" means without HYPOCRICY!

Nothing profits but faith working by love.

Amen, I dont see anything under either law or grace that is without hypocricy and in any kind of unfeigned love

But I agree 100%

I just havent witnessed it in anyone

 

[popeye]

This topic can get confused. Here is why. Salvation is free,absolutely free,nothing can be added for the initial born again experience.

OK,now ALL RELIGIONS,require the adherant to DO in order to be "accepted" . It could be "legalism"

But the thing is,one could look at Peter's false doctrine of circumcision and say "legalism" and they would be right,and these are blatant extreme examples.
What about the more subtle ones?
What about us that are absolutely grace oriented and ooze grace from every pore,but gossip over someones trangression,or tell someone they did this or that while we are not aware that we run a stop sign or fudge a expense report,or eat a grape at the supermaket.

The point is,if I break one law,I might as well break 100 laws.

But legalism can also be performance oriented as opposed to one that is abiding in Him,waiting on Him,and following the Lamb.

Legalism in todays church,IMHO,is more subtle than blatant. We see the radical legalist,but we tolerate the subtleties of others AND OURSELVES.

 

[popeye]

Amen, I dont see anything under either law or grace that is without hypocricy and in any kind of unfeigned love

But I agree 100%

I just havent witnessed it in anyone

Was thinking the same thing.
Sometimes we shine so bright and are what seems like God's champion,then 2 seconds later kick ourselves and wish we could dissappear through a hole in the earth,from something stupid we said or did.

 

[popeye]

Notice I said "we" instead of "I"

Dragging ya'll down with me LOL

 

[DesiredHaven]

Notice I said "we" instead of "I"

Dragging ya'll down with me LOL

Absolutely, and I make no claims of myself, I dont even claim to be perfect but I believe you can be according to how the scripture may speak of the same.

I just dont see this unfeigned love in those who claim to be teachers (who can provide you all the legal definitions) I mean big deal.

I have just seen too many that are heady, or bullys, or who come off as proud, and combative and all the rest of it.

I dont buy their bill of goods is all I am saying.

They might be able to expound on the fruits of the Spirit but that doesnt make those things which are (just because you can) yours. Something visible (detectable) to listener.

Im not a teacher, I try to look for decent ones, its really ones life and doctrine is that which saves the hearer, in the sense of taking any of them seriously at all.

For me it is

 

[Mitspa]

Amen, I dont see anything under either law or grace that is without hypocricy and in any kind of unfeigned love

But I agree 100%

I just havent witnessed it in anyone

Well it says faith without hypocrisy (unfeigned)....that means without legalism...

And we look to Christ for perfection, not to man and if we truly behold Him we will be conformed to His Image.

2Co 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

We are perfected in love...not legalism

 

[Mitspa]

Gal 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God?

God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should havebeen by the law.

Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, thatthe promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring usunto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Right the purpose of the law was to make us see our need for Christ, that we might be justified by faith in Him.

 

[Mitspa]

This topic can get confused. Here is why. Salvation is free,absolutely free,nothing can be added for the initial born again experience.

OK,now ALL RELIGIONS,require the adherant to DO in order to be "accepted" . It could be "legalism"

But the thing is,one could look at Peter's false doctrine of circumcision and say "legalism" and they would be right,and these are blatant extreme examples.
What about the more subtle ones?
What about us that are absolutely grace oriented and ooze grace from every pore,but gossip over someones trangression,or tell someone they did this or that while we are not aware that we run a stop sign or fudge a expense report,or eat a grape at the supermaket.

The point is,if I break one law,I might as well break 100 laws.

But legalism can also be performance oriented as opposed to one that is abiding in Him,waiting on Him,and following the Lamb.

Legalism in todays church,IMHO,is more subtle than blatant. We see the radical legalist,but we tolerate the subtleties of others AND OURSELVES.

Legalism as defined in the New Testament as being under the written code of the law ...any part of it. But legalism in the broader sense can be any man made religious work to attempt to justify oneself before God.

 

[DesiredHaven]

Well it says faith without hypocrisy (unfeigned)....that means without legalism...

And we look to Christ for perfection, not to man and if we truly behold Him we will be conformed to His Image.

2Co 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

We are perfected in love...not legalism

Yes I know it says weare perfected in love

1 John 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

1 John 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

And similarly here

1 John 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

However,

1 John 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

Just as it speaks of our love perfected, loving our brother we are to do righteousness

1 John 2:29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

And he tells us here...

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Now both of them combined here

1 John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

I know where the verses are

1 Peter 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

Although here

2 Cr 6:4 But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God,( how?) in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses, In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labours, in watchings, in fastings; By pureness, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned,

Its not folks looking for teachers who get the greater condemnation those putting themselves for as teachers shall receive that

James 3:1 My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.