LEGALSIM...how do you know if your a "legalist"

[michael56]

Because He was speaking to a self-righteous man under the law...who did not see his sin...but Jesus used the law for its purpose..."to make the whole world guilty before God"

Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”[SUP]17 [/SUP]“Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”
[SUP]18 [/SUP]“Which ones?” he inquired.
Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, [SUP]19 [/SUP]honor your father and mother,’[SUP][c][/SUP] and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’[SUP][d][/SUP]”
[SUP]20 [/SUP]“All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
[SUP]22 [/SUP]When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”
[SUP]25 [/SUP]When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”
[SUP]26 [/SUP]Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” Matt19:16-26

Its good to read it all to understand the whole picture

 

[Mitspa]

Mt 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

See the man claimed he was keeping the law....but how many commandments was he really breaking?

 

[Grandpa]

Have you ever read Pilgrims Progress by John Bunyan? If not, its really good, I think you would like it.

In the book, John describes a bunch of traps that the christian, or one trying to be a christian, can and does fall into. He describes how some walk with christians but only for a short distance, until they become offended.

I think the law and the way of the Jews in the OT is a big trap for christians. It seems right to a man to follow after the law of righteousness. Like being extra-holy. Unfortunately that is not the way to righteousness.

Romans 9:31-32
[SUP]31 [/SUP]But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

 

[michael56]

What is so hard about following the 10 commandments when you have the Holy Spirit guiding your path.
As the bible clearly says all things are possible to those who believe and have God in their life, and Paul reiterates this by saying he can do all things through Christ who strengthens him.
Why do some still want to put limitations on what God through the Holy Spirit can do in our lives.
The Holy Spirit was sent here for a purpose to guide and help us away from a sinful nature and to walk in righteousness and love. Love will uphold those commandments of the Lord, and the Holy Spirit is here to keep you walking as such.

Could you answer the question?

Do you uphold/obey all of Christ's literal commands in the Gospels? If you do not, are you justified before God?
Can you just obey some of them to be justified or must you obey all of them?
If you must obey them all, do you lose your right standing/justification with God until you have repented each time you fail to perfectly obey those literal commands?

It is a fair question bearing in mind what you wrote:
we are justified through Christ by upholding His commandments, teachings, and standards.

 

[Mitspa]

Let me try to explain it this way to some....
If I don't steal because Gods Spirit has caused me to love and in that love I look to give and not take...
But someone under the law is trying to justify themselves by not stealing, yet in their heart they covet what others have?
and they don't love.....Who is God pleased with?

 

[Reborn]

Who is God pleased with?

Those who don't debate 9000 posts deep, on trivial matters?? Maybe?
Over and over and over and over. (cleverly just changing up thread titles)

Titus 3:9-10

 

[Mitspa]

Those who don't debate 9000 posts deep, on trivial matters?? Maybe?
Over and over and over and over. (cleverly just changing up thread titles)

Titus 3:9-10

Please don't disrupt the thread...if you don't like the topic? Don't read it...

 

[Reborn]

Please don't disrupt the thread...if you don't like the topic? Don't read it...

You dominate the forums with the same discussion dude.
You have like 900 threads on the same topics?

For someone who hates legalists and those who still follow the law...you seemed obsessed with it?

BTW, "....can't I post where I want?" -Mitspa

 

[kennethcadwell]

Could you answer the question?

Do you uphold/obey all of Christ's literal commands in the Gospels? If you do not, are you justified before God?
Can you just obey some of them to be justified or must you obey all of them?
If you must obey them all, do you lose your right standing/justification with God until you have repented each time you fail to perfectly obey those literal commands?

It is a fair question bearing in mind what you wrote:
we are justified through Christ by upholding His commandments, teachings, and standards.

Well first you have to state what you believe to be a literal command, as this can be looked at differently by people.
Because some think that when the Lord said to pluck out your eye, or cut off your hand He was being literal. The problem with that is the context was about removing sinful lusts out of your life, and not to literally pluck an eye out, or cut a hand off.
Meaning if you look with lust on another, learn to put your focus on something else.
If you steal, stop by working and earning what you want. In other words deal with the sinful nature in your life before you go and help others out with theirs. So the question still remains what do you consider literal commands ?

Have I been baptized.....YES

Have I repented of my sins......YES

Do I confess Him as my Lord.....YES

Do I show forgiveness and mercy to others........YES

Do I put God first in my life..........YES

Do I bear false witness on others..........NO

Have I murdered or show hatred toward others............NO

Do I commit adultery.............NO

Do I steal...........NO

Do I observe the Sabbath.........YES, as I observe everyday alike by giving each day to Him

 

[Mitspa]

You dominate the forums with the same discussion dude.
You have like 900 threads on the same topics?

For someone who hates legalists and those who still follow the law...you seemed obsessed with it?

BTW, "....can't I post where I want?" -Mitspa

Well just ignore me...and let others debate issues they want ...Im not making these people discuss this issue...and Im not the only one who debates this issue...so grow up and get over it.

 

[Reborn]

Please don't disrupt the thread...if you don't like the topic? Don't read it...

You're right, I'll let you "broken record" your speeches and teachings.
There are plenty who will back me up in private with this.
Is it all of us Mitspa....or is it YOU?

Now, anyone who stands up for brother Mitspa, please understand, my problem is not with you.
Do you what you do.
My problem isn't with Mitspa per say.....it's that he has stated over and over that a lot of us aren't "real Christians"
Really? (My guess, is because we don't agree with him?)

Nice, huh?

As far as I know we are not allowed to call/tell someone that they are "not saved" here?

 

[Mitspa]

You're right, I'll let you "broken record" your speeches and teachings.
There are plenty who will back me up in private with this.
Is it all of us Mitspa....or is it YOU?

Now, anyone who stands up for brother Mitspa, please understand, my problem is not with you.
Do you what you do.
My problem isn't with Mitspa per say.....it's that he has stated over and over that a lot of us aren't "real Christians"
Really? (My guess, is because we don't agree with him?)

Nice, huh?

As far as I know we are not allowed to call/tell someone that they are "not saved" here?

Well good go start a thread on why you hate Mitspa...Im sure lots of people will join in....It wont bother me

But try to get over it...maybe pray about it and God will help you like me

 

[michael56]

Well first you have to state what you believe to be a literal command, as this can be looked at differently by people.
Because some think that when the Lord said to pluck out your eye, or cut off your hand He was being literal. The problem with that is the context was about removing sinful lusts out of your life, and not to literally pluck an eye out, or cut a hand off.
Meaning if you look with lust on another, learn to put your focus on something else.
If you steal, stop by working and earning what you want. In other words deal with the sinful nature in your life before you go and help others out with theirs. So the question still remains what do you consider literal commands ?

Have I been baptized.....YES

Have I repented of my sins......YES

Do I confess Him as my Lord.....YES

Do I show forgiveness and mercy to others........YES

Do I put God first in my life..........YES

Do I bear false witness on others..........NO

Have I murdered or show hatred toward others............NO

Do I commit adultery.............NO

Do I steal...........NO

Do I observe the Sabbath.........YES, as I observe everyday alike by giving each day to Him

Do not invite friends or family home for a meal, but rather the lame, blind, beggars so that you may receive your reward from your Father in Heaven

If you fast, don't let anyone know you are fasting, or you are like the hypocrites.

If someone takes/steals something of yours, offer them more than they stole, with nothing but love in your heart for them

Lend to others without expecting to get anything back.

Do not get angry(at all)
You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder,[SUP][a][/SUP] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ [SUP]22 [/SUP]But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister[SUP][b][/SUP][SUP][c][/SUP] will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’[SUP][d][/SUP] is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.[SUP]23 [/SUP]“Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you, [SUP]24 [/SUP]leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]“Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still together on the way, or your adversary may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison. [SUP]26 [/SUP]Truly I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.
[h=3]Adultery[/h][SUP]27 [/SUP]“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’[SUP][e][/SUP] [SUP]28 [/SUP]But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. [SUP]29 [/SUP]If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. [SUP]30 [/SUP]And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.
[h=3]Divorce[/h][SUP]31 [/SUP]“It has been said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.’[SUP][f][/SUP] [SUP]32 [/SUP]But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
[h=3]Oaths[/h][SUP]33 [/SUP]“Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘Do not break your oath, but fulfill to the Lord the vows you have made.’ [SUP]34 [/SUP]But I tell you, do not swear an oath at all: either by heaven, for it is God’s throne; [SUP]35 [/SUP]or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. [SUP]36 [/SUP]And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. [SUP]37 [/SUP]All you need to say is simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.[SUP][g][/SUP]
[h=3]Eye for Eye[/h][SUP]38 [/SUP]“You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[SUP][h][/SUP] [SUP]39 [/SUP]But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. [SUP]40 [/SUP]And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. [SUP]41 [/SUP]If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. [SUP]42 [/SUP]Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
[h=3]Love for Enemies[/h][SUP]43 [/SUP]“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[SUP][i][/SUP] and hate your enemy.’ [SUP]44 [/SUP]But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, [SUP]45 [/SUP]that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. [SUP]46 [/SUP]If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? [SUP]47 [/SUP]And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? [SUP]48 [/SUP]Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Matt5:21-48

More to follow

 

[michael56]

Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.[SUP]2 [/SUP]“So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. [SUP]3 [/SUP]But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, [SUP]4 [/SUP]so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
[h=3]Prayer[/h][SUP]5 [/SUP]“And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. [SUP]6 [/SUP]But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. [SUP]7 [/SUP]And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]“This, then, is how you should pray:
“‘Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
[SUP]10 [/SUP]your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Give us today our daily bread.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And lead us not into temptation,[SUP][a][/SUP]
but deliver us from the evil one.[SUP][b][/SUP]’

[SUP]14 [/SUP]For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. [SUP]15 [/SUP]But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
[h=3]Fasting[/h][SUP]16 [/SUP]“When you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do, for they disfigure their faces to show others they are fasting. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. [SUP]17 [/SUP]But when you fast, put oil on your head and wash your face, [SUP]18 [/SUP]so that it will not be obvious to others that you are fasting, but only to your Father, who is unseen; and your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
[h=3]Treasures in Heaven[/h][SUP]19 [/SUP]“Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. [SUP]20 [/SUP]But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. [SUP]21 [/SUP]For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]“The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are healthy,[SUP][c][/SUP] your whole body will be full of light. [SUP]23 [/SUP]But if your eyes are unhealthy,[SUP][d][/SUP] your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!
[SUP]24 [/SUP]“No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.
[h=3]Do Not Worry[/h][SUP]25 [/SUP]“Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes? [SUP]26 [/SUP]Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? [SUP]27 [/SUP]Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life[SUP][e][/SUP]?
[SUP]28 [/SUP]“And why do you worry about clothes? See how the flowers of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. [SUP]29 [/SUP]Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. [SUP]30 [/SUP]If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you—you of little faith? [SUP]31 [/SUP]So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ [SUP]32 [/SUP]For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. [SUP]33 [/SUP]But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. [SUP]34 [/SUP]Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own. Matt6

 

[michael56]

Do not judge, or you too will be judged. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.[SUP]3 [/SUP]“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? [SUP]4 [/SUP]How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? [SUP]5 [/SUP]You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]“Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.
[h=3]Ask, Seek, Knock[/h][SUP]7 [/SUP]“Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. [SUP]8 [/SUP]For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]“Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? [SUP]10 [/SUP]Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? [SUP]11 [/SUP]If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! [SUP]12 [/SUP]So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. Matt7:1-12

PLEASE DON'T JUST GLANCE OVER THEM ALL, THINK ABOUT WHETHER YOU ACTUALLY OBEY THEM ALL

 

[Reborn]

Well good go start a thread on why you hate Mitspa...Im sure lots of people will join in....It wont bother me

But try to get over it...maybe pray about it and God will help you like me

Arrogant.
Like you, huh?

I rest my case.

BTW, READ what I wrote.....I didn't say I hated you dude, I said I don't like the fact that you say that we are not "real Christians"? Big difference. Try coming at people a little more gentle, instead of acting like you're the 13th Apostle, man?

Get over yourself....maybe people will receive you a little better?

 

[michael56]

Blessed are you when people hate you,
when they exclude you and insult you
and reject your name as evil,
because of the Son of Man.

[SUP]23 [/SUP]“Rejoice in that day and leap for joy, because great is your reward in heaven. For that is how their ancestors treated the prophets lUKE 6:22&23

But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, [SUP]28 [/SUP]bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. [SUP]29 [/SUP]If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. [SUP]30 [/SUP]Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. [SUP]31 [/SUP]Do to others as you would have them do to you.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]“If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. [SUP]33 [/SUP]And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. [SUP]34 [/SUP]And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. [SUP]35[/SUP]But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back lUKE 6:27-35

 

[notuptome]

Now, anyone who stands up for brother Mitspa, please understand, my problem is not with you.
Do you what you do.
My problem isn't with Mitspa per say.....it's that he has stated over and over that a lot of us aren't "real Christians"
Really? (My guess, is because we don't agree with him?)

Nice, huh?

As far as I know we are not allowed to call/tell someone that they are "not saved" here?

Don't confuse this with standing up for him but there is a lot of truth to the statement that many here are unsaved. Not because they disagree with any one poster but because they disagree with the bible.

Most of the profiles I have read are marked as Christian. Yet some have confessed they do not possess the Holy Spirit. Some are not Christians and say so. Others are not sure but the majority call themselves Christian and do so for various reasons.

Why do some object to another asking them if they are genuinely saved? Does not scripture teach that we are to be ready to give and answer for the hope that lies within us? 1 Peter 3:15 in case you were wondering.

For many the answer to the question posed in the thread is readily answered by looking into the mirror. The person looking back is a legalist. The real question is what will they do about it?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[michael56]

“Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. [SUP]38 [/SUP]Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.” lUKE 6:37&38

Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? [SUP]42 [/SUP]How can you say to your brother, ‘Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye lUKE 6:41&42

 

[Mitspa]

Arrogant.
Like you, huh?

I rest my case.

BTW, READ what I wrote.....I didn't say I hated you dude, I said I don't like the fact that you say that we are not "real Christians"? Big difference. Try coming at people a little more gentle, instead of acting like you're the 13th Apostle, man?

Get over yourself....maybe people will receive you a little better?

Look...all you have to do is just ignore me.... why you want to start a personal issue and make personal attacks?